Could Scotrail use 91/MK4 on the electrified lines between Edinburgh and Glasgow ?

[gingertom]

no not by a long way via shots perhaps 55-60 miles on a trundeling route averaging perhaps 55- 60mph
falkirk perhaps 48 -50miles average 90 mph

it's 47m 1ch.

 

[big all]

ok possibly less than via carstairs but a very secondery much slower average speed i assume??

 

[gingertom]

ok possibly less than via carstairs but a very secondery much slower average speed i assume??

to do with 3-aspect signalling. It's just had a major makeover in tandem with the electrification currently happening but i don't think they took the opportunity to significantly increase the linespeeds-can anyone on here confirm?

 

[big all]

i remember perhaps 45-50 years ago when i had moved to redhill surrey from sighthill nearest station then was kingsknowe via shots was a an epic nearing two hours and perhaps a every 3 hours service but off course perception and recollection can be a strange thing

 

[gingertom]

i remember perhaps 45-50 years ago when i had moved to redhill surrey from sighthill nearest station then was kingsknowe via shots was a an epic nearing two hours and perhaps a every 3 hours service but off course perception and recollection can be a strange thing

I did it a long time ago, it was a class 101 and it took forever- no sooner had the unit got up to anything like a reasonable speed then it had to stop in the middle of nowhere to let a couple of passengers on or off, if at all. The class 156 transformed it, as will the 385s next year.

 

[jagardner1984]

Have they published a predicted journey time for the 385s on the Shotts Line.

 

[gingertom]

Have they published a predicted journey time for the 385s on the Shotts Line.

not seen anything yet. The stopping service takes an hour and a half, a 385 should be able to knock at least 20 minutes off that.

 

[Aictos]

What interests me is what are the Class 380s like compared to the Class 385s with acceleration?

Are they similar as I do remember my first trips on the former that they were rather like greyhounds raring to go from each stop or was that the driver???

 

[Elecman]

I recall a radio interview given by Cyril Bleasdale, the chairman of BR in Scotland in the early 80s, at which he stated the E&G didn't need electrification. No doubt those who funded the railways back then leapt on this and held him, and his successors, to his statement.
Held back Scotrail's development by decades.

Cyril was NEVER Chairman of Scotrail, he was Scotrail Sector Director. His descision was correct for the time as history has proved.

 

[hexagon789]

What interests me is what are the Class 380s like compared to the Class 385s with acceleration?

Are they similar as I do remember my first trips on the former that they were rather like greyhounds raring to go from each stop or was that the driver???

A four-car 385 is about 47 seconds 0-60mph, while three-car 380 is about 39 seconds 0-60mph IIRC.

 

[gingertom]

Cyril was NEVER Chairman of Scotrail, he was Scotrail Sector Director. His descision was correct for the time as history has proved.

whatever his title he was the top guy. I disagree with you that his decision to argue against electrification was correct- let's leave it at that.

 

[Aictos]

A four-car 385 is about 47 seconds 0-60mph, while three-car 380 is about 39 seconds 0-60mph IIRC.

What about 4 car 380s? Are they equal to 4 car 385s?

 

[hexagon789]

What about 4 car 380s? Are they equal to 4 car 385s?

Well a 3-car 380 has a maximum acceleration rate of 1ms^2
While a 4-car is 0.9ms^2

I don't know how a 3-car 385 compares but they are both 100mph units, I can't imagine any difference in 0-60 times will amount to more than a few seconds.

 

[Indigo Soup]

no not by a long way via shots perhaps 55-60 miles on a trundeling route averaging perhaps 55- 60mph
falkirk perhaps 48 -50miles average 90 mph

I believe Shotts was the Caledonian Railway's main line between Glasgow and Edinburgh, and before rationalisation saw BR pick the Falkirk route for development both routes had comparable journey times. I can't see how resurrecting that status would help anyone though.

 

[big all]

I believe Shotts was the Caledonian Railway's main line between Glasgow and Edinburgh, and before rationalisation saw BR pick the Falkirk route for development both routes had comparable journey times. I can't see how resurrecting that status would help anyone though.

yes not actually sure about actual distances indeed my perception has been quite wrong by the looks off it
as the perhaps 12 year old son off a haymarket fireman my only guidance it from parents and worldly experiances i just assumed via shots was a world journey as it took so long
i can remember as a perhaps 8 year old we built a den on the railway bridge above millar farm on the old westerhales road i cant remember but my younger brother remembers us walking along the railway line with the front bogie hunting on the steam engine coming towards us with with whistle blowing around 1962

actually we used to call it the calley but probably not realize why
ahhh thinking about it princess street was cally as was dalry road
but as i said children dont always make even simple connections

 

[PaulLothian]

I don't think the Caledonian routes were ever a serious contender in the competition for fastest Glasgow to Edinburgh service. Found an interesting early BR timetable which gives an idea:
http://timetableworld.com/book_viewer.php?id=4&section_id=1132 (See Table 3 Glasgow-Edinburgh [Summary])

It only shows end to end times, rather than stopping patterns. However, nationalisation did not result in a substantial immediate speeding up of previous services, so it probably reflects what had been in force before.

 

[Indigo Soup]

I don't think the Caledonian routes were ever a serious contender in the competition for fastest Glasgow to Edinburgh service. Found an interesting early BR timetable which gives an idea:
http://timetableworld.com/book_viewer.php?id=4&section_id=1132 (See Table 3 Glasgow-Edinburgh [Summary])

It only shows end to end times, rather than stopping patterns. However, nationalisation did not result in a substantial immediate speeding up of previous services, so it probably reflects what had been in force before.

Not fastest, but not so much slower as to be uncompetitive - about 1h17 as against 1h4 via the E&G, looking at the fastest times - depending on origin and destination within the respective cities.

What's striking about the 1948 timetable is the infrequent service with what are clearly irregular stopping patterns.

 

[route101]

Hopefully the via Shotts service are more spread out . At the mo its a fast then slow like 15 minutes after

 

[Aictos]

Hopefully the via Shotts service are more spread out . At the mo its a fast then slow like 15 minutes after

Maybe from Glasgow as they depart at XX:03 and XX:17 but from Edinburgh they depart at XX:27 and XX:58 which certainly isn't 15 minutes apart.

Maybe when they start running the services as EMUs they can look into a more clockface timetable so departs Glasgow 30 minutes apart on the hour to bring it in line with the Edinburgh half hourly departures.

 

[route101]

Maybe from Glasgow as they depart at XX:03 and XX:17 but from Edinburgh they depart at XX:27 and XX:58 which certainly isn't 15 minutes apart.

Maybe when they start running the services as EMUs they can look into a more clockface timetable so departs Glasgow 30 minutes apart on the hour to bring it in line with the Edinburgh half hourly departures.

Yeah its the Glasgow end . I think there was a reason they are spaced like that .

 

[Stopper]

It’s pretty hard to path the Shotts services at each end, particularly with all the Glasgow suburban locals, and the cross-border services such as TPE, XC and VT.

I’m not sure how much this will change after electrification.

 

[hexagon789]

Not fastest, but not so much slower as to be uncompetitive - about 1h17 as against 1h4 via the E&G, looking at the fastest times - depending on origin and destination within the respective cities.

What's striking about the 1948 timetable is the infrequent service with what are clearly irregular stopping patterns.

Definitely a regular hourly service on the E&G via Falkirk High by 1962, though the calling points were still quite varied. Via Shotts still a pretty irregular service though, the journey time difference also became greater with the via Falkirk High services taking usually 1 hour sometimes 55 minutes.

 

[reb0118]

What's striking about the 1948 timetable is the infrequent service with what are clearly irregular stopping patterns.

We used to have an old boy board at Holytown station for the single stop to the metropolis of Bellshill. He claimed to be the last station master at Holytown and would lament the demise of his former employment locus with its four platform faces, fully staffed booking office, refreshment facilities, & a bookstall. I used to think that he had lost the plot until I came across a 1932 LMS timetable.

It seems Holytown was the principle interchange station for North Lanarkshire for passengers coming to/from Edinburgh on the Caledonian route. The stopping service was overtaken by the express there and there was a myriad of local trains to various destinations via the Mossend Curves.

 

[route101]

We used to have an old boy board at Holytown station for the single stop to the metropolis of Bellshill. He claimed to be the last station master at Holytown and would lament the demise of his former employment locus with its four platform faces, fully staffed booking office, refreshment facilities, & a bookstall. I used to think that he had lost the plot until I came across a 1932 LMS timetable.

It seems Holytown was the principle interchange station for North Lanarkshire for passengers coming to/from Edinburgh on the Caledonian route. The stopping service was overtaken by the express there and there was a myriad of local trains to various destinations via the Mossend Curves.

Holytown now has hourly service these days ?