Could we see direct services from Marylebone towards Milton Keynes?

[swt_passenger]

Indeed. We're not going to be getting very far without a new curve and something that can be signed off to take a regular passenger service between it and Aylesbury Vale Parkway as an absolute bare minimum. That would also not allow for trains to call at Aylesbury Vale Parkway unless terminating there, as now.

I think that’s also provided a helpful reminder that the EWR TWA order did include a new through platform at Aylesbury Vale, and it’s not just replacing the track that is needed to introduce a service. I don’t think the new platform was mentioned much in the EWR construction thread, but it’s quite important.

 

[Starmill]

I think that’s also provided a helpful reminder that the EWR TWA order did include a new through platform at Aylesbury Vale, and it’s not just replacing the track that is needed to introduce a service. I don’t think the new platform was mentioned much in the EWR construction thread, but it’s quite important.

I haven't spotted any mention of it for years. Of course, I could easily have missed it.

 

[sad1e]

My main question is would the service call at Quainton road , and what would happen to the heritage centre there.

 

[The Planner]

My main question is would the service call at Quainton road , and what would happen to the heritage centre there.

No as there won't be a station and its effectively split in half

 

[HSTEd]

I'm not sure what the attractiveness of running diesel trains from Marylebone to Milton Keynes would be.

They'd be substantially slower and more expensive to operate than marginal seats on the WCML.

 

[Mikey C]

I'm not sure what the attractiveness of running diesel trains from Marylebone to Milton Keynes would be.

They'd be substantially slower and more expensive to operate than marginal seats on the WCML.

Because any service wouldn't be for end to end journeys, but intermediate ones. High Wycombe or Aylesbury to MK services would be very useful.

 

[sad1e]

No as there won't be a station and its effectively split in half

Haven't there been services from Marylebone to the remaining platform there in the past during special events though.

 

[The Planner]

Haven't there been services from Marylebone to the remaining platform there in the past during special events though.

I doubt there will be in the future.

 

[150219]

Haven't there been services from Marylebone to the remaining platform there in the past during special events though.

No.

Any special services that did operate were from Aylesbury and were generally on bank holidays.

Whilst these had latterly been operating with 165 units, these were the reserve of the 121s once they were reinstated. When they themselves were withdrawn, the occasional service to Quainton Road did not operate any longer either.

If/when the line reopens to Winslow, I doubt Quainton Road's catchment area would attract any more customers than Aylesbury Vale Parkway (if a platform was provided) or Winslow would do.

If it was to reopen as a station in its own right, then I'd expect a big influx of cash and a big car park. Not the kind of space that's immediately available in the area without buying up the farmland around.

For the time being there's a competitively offered bus service, which before the line closed to through freight services was also offered to traincrew travelling pass back to/from Bletchley.

 

[stevieinselby]

Mainly it'd be providing a Chiltern/Met Line link to MK, and Winslow a direct link to London, than MK or Bletchley an alternative route to London.

Winslow has a population of about 5,000. Providing a direct connection between Winslow and London is irrelevant – for the number of passengers, options for changing at Bletchley, Aylesbury or Bicester are more than adequate.

I'm not sure how much value there is in a service from Princes Risborough to Milton Keynes – unless you can extend it at least to High Wycombe (which would benefit from having direct services to Aylesbury anyway, so there is definitely merit in considering that as an option) then I'm not sure what it adds, as passengers would already have a 1-change option via Bicester.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Winslow has a population of about 5,000. Providing a direct connection between Winslow and London is irrelevant – for the number of passengers, options for changing at Bletchley, Aylesbury or Bicester are more than adequate.

I'm not sure how much value there is in a service from Princes Risborough to Milton Keynes – unless you can extend it at least to High Wycombe (which would benefit from having direct services to Aylesbury anyway, so there is definitely merit in considering that as an option) then I'm not sure what it adds, as passengers would already have a 1-change option via Bicester.

A lot of the new housing in Aylesbury is closer to/more easily accessible from Aylesbury Vale Parkway, so an extension of the PR-Aylesbury shuttle to MKC makes more sense than doubling back. It also allows a station to be opened at e.g. Calvert, if there was more new housing estates built there.

 

[zwk500]

Winslow has a population of about 5,000. Providing a direct connection between Winslow and London is irrelevant – for the number of passengers, options for changing at Bletchley, Aylesbury or Bicester are more than adequate.

I'm not sure how much value there is in a service from Princes Risborough to Milton Keynes – unless you can extend it at least to High Wycombe (which would benefit from having direct services to Aylesbury anyway, so there is definitely merit in considering that as an option) then I'm not sure what it adds, as passengers would already have a 1-change option via Bicester.

FWIW I wasn't saying it should be done, just that's the markets it'd serve.

I think longer-term the possibility of a Prince's Risborough to MK service as a way of streamlining operations could be considered, but it would be essentially two services joined up for convenience.

 

[swt_passenger]

Haven't there been services from Marylebone to the remaining platform there in the past during special events though.

There’s discussion and drawings of the changes to Quainton Road in the main EWR construction thread somewhere, (see below). The platform is basically completely fenced off for visitors to be safely separated from passing trains, and the building gets altered to move various doors to the opposite side away from the track. Fencing will still allow the station footbridge to be used.

It‘s definitely not a design for regular use by EWR passenger trains.

Here’s a link to the 2024 discussion:

East-West Rail (EWR): Oxford-Bletchley construction progress

Some construction updates: Bletchley High Level Station Bletchley Flyover Salden Wood Swanbourne Station (former site) Moco Farm (bridge jacking trail) Winslow Station Verney Junction (former site) Claydon Loop (east end) 1708333313 Some construction updates (2 of 2): Claydon...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[sad1e]

There’s discussion and drawings of the changes to Quainton Road in the main EWR construction thread somewhere. (I’ll add a link.) The platform is basically completely fenced off for visitors to be safely separated from passing trains, and the building gets altered to move various doors to the opposite side away from the track. Fencing will allow the footbridge to still be used.

It‘s definitely not a design for use by EWR passenger trains.

Sad as it would be nice to have provision for stopping services there , even if it was only during special events like the previous service.

I wonder if this is going to be a regret for EWR in the future ,especially if housing developments continue to be built around Aylesbury.

All that would really need to be installed at Quainton would be an announcement display , DOO mirrors and potentially a loop if the frequency on the line is high enough stopping there messes up the single line paths.

 

[D365]

All that would really need to be installed at Quainton would be an announcement display , DOO mirrors and potentially a loop if the frequency on the line is high enough stopping there messes up the single line paths.

With the gold-plating that new build stations and platforms are subjected to in this decade, it’s sadly never as simple as ’just’ putting up a platform and footbridge. Any hypothetical new stations to serve local housing development would be funded and constructed later.

 

[150219]

Sad as it would be nice to have provision for stopping services there , even if it was only during special events like the previous service.

I wonder if this is going to be a regret for EWR in the future ,especially if housing developments continue to be built around Aylesbury.

All that would really need to be installed at Quainton would be an announcement display , DOO mirrors and potentially a loop if the frequency on the line is high enough stopping there messes up the single line paths.

Quainton Road would need more than that to be fit for purpose. Essentially you'd be starting from scratch in the same way that Winslow station has been relocated, rather than using the previous station site.

 

[sad1e]

Quainton Road would need more than that to be fit for purpose. Essentially you'd be starting from scratch in the same way that Winslow station has been relocated, rather than using the previous station site.

Out of interest what else would need to be installed there to have it fit for a regular stopping service again.

 

[cle]

Nobody lives around there at all, really. Winslow and AVP as railheads should be quite enough.

I do wish the PR-Aylesbury line had been deemed worthy of even a minor upgrade. Feels, much like Marston, these little rural lines that actually have decent connectivity, are ignored for the big overengineered stations and car parks.

Aylesbury-HW could have a decent service, plus good connections to Oxford and maybe a faster Aylesbury London journey than via Amersham.

If HW had a north facing bay (it needs a rethink overall) that would be a good spot for a MKC service. Agree that to Marylebone doesn’t seem necessary.

 

[The Planner]

Out of interest what else would need to be installed there to have it fit for a regular stopping service again.

You would have to take it off the heritage railways hands entirely I suspect.

 

[Starmill]

I'm not sure what the attractiveness of running diesel trains from Marylebone to Milton Keynes would be.

They'd be substantially slower and more expensive to operate than marginal seats on the WCML.

The original idea was that it would enable journeys like Milton Keynes - High Wycombe and Winslow - London without a change of train. It would take so long to go end to end it would be incredibly unlikely anyone would use it for that during normal service anyway. Those flows could be adequately served of course by decent connections (say 7-10 mins) at Aylesbury. But even Milton Keynes Central - Bletchley - Winslow - Aylesbury Vale Parkway - Aylesbury is, as above, still in the balance really.

 

[The Planner]

The plan back in the day was Northampton-esque. It would be the same train, but a sizeable dwell at Aylesbury.

 

[sad1e]

The plan back in the day was Northampton-esque. It would be the same train, but a sizeable dwell at Aylesbury.

London Marylebone - Northampton via Winslow ?

 

[The Planner]

London Marylebone - Northampton via Winslow ?

No. Currently trains at Northampton have a long layover on the journey between Euston and Birmingham though its the same train. The same was planned to happen at Aylesbury for the MK services.

 

[BlueLeanie]

If HW had a north facing bay (it needs a rethink overall) that would be a good spot for a MKC service. Agree that to Marylebone doesn’t seem necessary.

Is it worth starting a new Speculative discussion as to how to improve High Wycombe station to deliver enhanced services and an enhanced Passenger experience?

I'd there technically enough space for a complete rebuild and four platforms? Perhaps a pair of offset island.

When I look at it on Google maps, I can't quite work out if it is constrained or not.

 

[sad1e]

Is it worth starting a new Speculative discussion as to how to improve High Wycombe station to deliver enhanced services and an enhanced Passenger experience?

I'd there technically enough space for a complete rebuild and four platforms? Perhaps a pair of offset island.

When I look at it on Google maps, I can't quite work out if it is constrained or not.

I wouldn't put an island configuration in as it would prevent CML quad tracking in the future.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Twin Islands would still need quad tracks though? Or am I getting something wrong with my terminology?

 

[sad1e]

Twin Islands would still need quad tracks though? Or am I getting something wrong with my terminology?

Nevermind i may have misread your post

 

[150219]

Is it worth starting a new Speculative discussion as to how to improve High Wycombe station to deliver enhanced services and an enhanced Passenger experience?

I'd there technically enough space for a complete rebuild and four platforms? Perhaps a pair of offset island.

When I look at it on Google maps, I can't quite work out if it is constrained or not.

High Wycombe is very constrained by the layout that currently exists.

There isn't much more land available towards the north without significant demolition and excavation or towards the south, which has the opposite problem to the north in that it's an embankment with houses packed tightly against the railway.

Even allowing for expansion of the current station, the former goods yard and line next to the bay platform are now blocked by the car park and station approach road.

There would have to be a very comprehensive and 'out there' rebuild to increase the platforms there.

But then you'd be faced with the problem of capacity on a 2-line railway either end of the station, so there'd be limited reason for doing it.

Even the semaphore signalled layout had constraints, but allowed for terminating trains to reverse via the Up Extension (i.e., turnback at the London end) and back.

 

[al green]

EEH has been campaigning for a MK-OOC service via Ayl, PR, HW for about 5 years. Surprised no-one has mentioned it in this thread. See https://eeh-prod-media.s3.amazonaws...Case_for_Northampton_to_Old_Oak_Common_v2.pdf Much more useful than to MYB.

 

[Bletchleyite]

EEH has been campaigning for a MK-OOC service via Ayl, PR, HW for about 5 years. Surprised no-one has mentioned it in this thread. See https://eeh-prod-media.s3.amazonaws...Case_for_Northampton_to_Old_Oak_Common_v2.pdf Much more useful than to MYB.

Not sure how useful OOC would be to be honest, if you did want to use HS2 you could just go to Euston, and that would interact with quite a lot so potentially cross pollinate delays? However I can see the sense in running it to Risborough for Chiltern mainline connections - it would very much connect up poorly connected Buckinghamshire - a long, thin County that barely has any public transport up that obvious spine of towns at all.

Regarding Vale Parkway, as noted above that's designed to allow the platform to fairly easily gain the missing face - that's I recall why it's got the slightly clumsy layout it has rather than the platform being on the car park side as would otherwise make more sense. (There's no other sensible reason I can think of - it's not steeply curved, for example). It's also likely to get a lot busier as more housing pops up around it.