"Covid rising in England" - let's stop the fear mongering

[duncanp]

I also agree we should never have locked down in March 2020, I felt from day 1 the damage caused would far outweigh any good it did. The reason so many were scared was down the atrocious messaging from both the government and the media

But the locktivists and maskivists just won't give up will they.

Apparently, the government strategy of living with COVID is "...the straw that is breaking the back of the NHS..."

They convenient ignore this quote from the article

Virus-tracking surveillance data has even shown the latest resurgence has peaked, with pressure on NHS facilities also set to ease in the coming days.

and

Hospital admissions are already slowing in England, rising just five per cent in the week to July 11, compared to growing by a third week-on-week in the week to July 4.

I have just had a second bout of COVID myself, and it just like a cold for me, as it is for the vast majority of people.

Booster vaccines in the autumn for the mst vulnerable people should help to ease pressure on the NHS over the winter.

Locktivists, just give it a ******* rest. I have had it up to here with you.

Bring Covid curbs back AGAIN, say top medical journals

No10 has batted away calls to bring back pandemic-era curbs in response to the UK's soaring infections, which saw one in 20 people infected earlier this month.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Bring Covid curbs back AGAIN, say top medical journals: Editorial calls for new clampdown on Britons that could include 'restrictions on gatherings' and mask mandates​

• No10 has batted away calls to bring back pandemic-era curbs in response to soaring infections
• Surveillance models suggest 3.5million people in the UK (one in 20) people were infected in week to July 6
• But editors of two health publications accused Government of 'gaslighting' public about threat Covid poses
• They say it is time to face the fact that attempt to 'live with Covid' is 'straw that is breaking the NHS's back'
• Authors blame 'failure to recognise that the pandemic is far from over' and call for return of virus curbs
• Face masks, free Covid tests for all, WFH guidance and restrictions on social gathering should return, they say

Economically-crippling Covid restrictions need to be brought back immediately to save the 'dying' NHS, ministers have been told.

No10 has batted away calls to bring back pandemic-era curbs in response to soaring infections, with up to one in 20 people now infected.

But in a scathing editorial demanding action today, the editors of the British Medical Journal (BMJ) and the Health Service Journal (HSJ) — two of the country's leading health publications — accused Boris Johnson's Government of 'gaslighting the public' about Covid's threat.

Dr Kamran Abbasi (BMJ) and Alastair McLellan (HSJ) said: 'Now is the time to face the fact that the nation's attempt to "live with Covid" is the straw that is breaking the NHS's back.

'The heart of the problem is the failure to recognise that the pandemic is far from over and that a return to some of the measures taken in the past two years is needed.'

Examples of curbs needed included a return to wearing masks in healthcare settings and on public transport, the reintroduction of the £2billion-a-month free testing scheme, WFH where possible and 'restrictions on some types and sizes of gathering'.

They didn't set out what gatherings should be curbed. But previous limits enforced in England saw just six people allowed to meet indoors, weddings limited to a handful of guests and festivals cancelled.

Despite alarm bells being raised about the current situation, other leading experts have insisted Downing Street's decision to axe all of the final restrictions in April was correct.

Virus-tracking surveillance data has even shown the latest resurgence has peaked, with pressure on NHS facilities also set to ease in the coming days.

Daily Covid hospital admissions have risen to a near 18-month high, with around 2,000 people currently being hospitalised every day.

Yet only a third of 'patients' needing care primarily ill with the virus itself. The rest have incidentally tested positive, NHS figures show.

Deaths and ICU rates have remained flat despite the uptick in cases, with fatalities sitting at roughly 30 a day.

Top scientists say this is because the variants behind the current wave — BA.4 and BA.5 — are mild, and that sky-high immunity rates from vaccines and previous waves have blunted the virus's threat.

One Government adviser, who didn't want to be named, insisted there is 'no need for Government measures' anymore.

They argued draconian restrictions only worked when the public was scared by the disease itself, and now society isn't so 'worried about catching what's essentially a cross between a cold and flu'.

'The time of mandates and restrictions is finished and won't help,' the top scientist said. 'The last two waves went down without either.'

Professor Paul Hunter, an infectious disease expert based at the University of East Anglia, said reintroducing curbs now 'is not going to actually achieve much' and would 'cause substantial disruption'.

He told MailOnline: 'I think the balance of evidence is that the current wave has peaked.'

But the BMJ and HSJ argue that high infection rates are increasing the number of Covid and long Covid patients it has to care for.

It is also pushing up staff absences and crippling its ability to tackle the backlog of routine care the spiralled during the pandemic, the authors said.

Dr Abbasi and Mr McLellan said Covid is 'the straw that is breaking the NHS's back', amid an already 'brutal situation' due to prolonged underfunding, an inadequate workforce plan and a 'cowardly short-sighted failure to undertake social care reform'.

This year, the NHS was supposed to be focused on clearing the backlog, as leaders assumed the virus would be 'nothing more than an irritant' that would only trigger a wave in December, their letter states. But medics are performing 10 per cent fewer elective surgeries than it did in 2019.

The pair admit the latest wave, fuelled by Omicron subvariants BA.4 and BA.5, will peak 'in the next few days'.

But they argue the UK is in the midst of a third spike of infections in seven months and other variants will soon take hold, causing another surge.

Similar warnings from Independent Sage, a panel of experts who pushed for a Chinese-style elimination strategy, called for restrictions when cases were already falling.

During Omicron's winter resurgence, infections fell. Only rules requiring masks to be worn in indoor venues were brought back in — but they were quickly dropped when it was clear the virus was in retreat.

Ministers refused to bring any curbs back during April, when cases soared to pandemic highs.

But the BMJ and HSJ bosses said that while the three Omicron waves have caused less severe illness, rising cases pile pressures on hospitals and raise the number of people with long Covid which is a 'major burden' on the NHS.

Infections worsen outcomes and recovery for other conditions, reduce hospital capacity and raise staff absences, on top of 'further hollowing out an already overstretch and exhausted workforce', they wrote.

The co-authors hit out at the Conservative leadership contest for 'barely mentioning' the NHS crisis in debates and at the overall lack of 'political, public, or media outcry about the Covid-driven collapse in services'.

They wrote: 'The Government must stop gaslighting the public and be honest about the threat the pandemic still poses to them and the NHS.

'Being honest with the public will have two positive results, it will encourage the public to modify behaviour and, we hope, provoke urgent reflection about how the NHS is in such a mess so soon after the nation was applauding it on their doorsteps.'

One in 19 people across the UK were infected in the week to July 6, according to estimates from the Office for National Statistics. Some 3.5million Britons were thought to be infected, up by a third in a week.

But Professor Tim Spector, who runs the data from Covid symptom tracking app ZOE, said that while it logged a record 350,000 daily Covid cases in the week to July 11, infections are flattening out.

He said: 'The good news is case numbers won’t rise indefinitely and we’re already seeing a slight drop in numbers day to day.'

Hospital admissions are already slowing in England, rising just five per cent in the week to July 11, compared to growing by a third week-on-week in the week to July 4.

Polls show Britons are already responding to the resurgence, with three in 10 people reporting staying at home to avoid Covid in the last month and four in 10 wearing a face mask. Almost half observed social distancing rules that have not been in place since February, while two-thirds said they had sanitised their hands.

Just 16 per cent of people, around one in six, have not taken any precautions over the last month, according to the survey of 1,500 Britons for MailOnline by Redfield & Wilton Strategies.

Millions of Britons ditched masks in April as part of 'Freedom Day' and the Government's living with Covid plan, which no longer made them a legal requirement.

They were only axed from official NHS guidance last month, but already individual trusts have started reimposing them.

Infection rates aren't just rising in the UK — they are on the march across Europe, fuelled by Omicron sub-variants thought to be even more infectious than the BA.2 strain. Governments are revisiting mask guidance as a result.

Despite billions wearing masks to cut transmission, gold‑standard evidence remains thin on the ground.

Instead, the claims comes mainly from observational studies, which look at samples of people without interfering or controlling them in any way. According to these studies, there is a benefit to wearing a mask.

The multi-billion pound testing scheme was axed under plans to live with the virus. Only NHS workers, care home staff and vulnerable patients are eligible for free swabs.

The BMJ didn't explain what size of gatherings would be acceptable under their recommendation.

But previous limits on socialising saw just six people allowed to meet indoors, weddings and funerals limited to a handful of guests and no fans at major sporting events.

 

[Richard Scott]

But the locktivists and maskivists just won't give up will they.

Apparently, the government strategy of living with COVID is "...the straw that is breaking the back of the NHS..."

They convenient ignore this quote from the article



and




I have just had a second bout of COVID myself, and it just like a cold for me, as it is for the vast majority of people.

Booster vaccines in the autumn for the mst vulnerable people should help to ease pressure on the NHS over the winter.

Locktivists, just give it a ******* rest. I have had it up to here with you.

Bring Covid curbs back AGAIN, say top medical journals

No10 has batted away calls to bring back pandemic-era curbs in response to the UK's soaring infections, which saw one in 20 people infected earlier this month.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Aside from their persistent pathetic attitudes who do they suggest pays for all this? Country is now broke and in middle of an economic issue not seen for years purely due to doing exactly what they suggest we do again. These people just don't live in the real world.

 

[duncanp]

Aside from their persistent pathetic attitudes who do they suggest pays for all this? Country is now broke and in middle of an economic issue not seen for years purely due to doing exactly what they suggest we do again. These people just don't live in the real world.

The downturn in the economy, with a consequent loss of tax revenue both now and in the future, would be far more of a threat to the NHS than COVID.

But, as you say, they don't live in the real world.

 

[MikeWM]

But the locktivists and maskivists just won't give up will they.

Apparently, the government strategy of living with COVID is "...the straw that is breaking the back of the NHS..."

I think the most interesting part of that article is right near the end where it says 'Despite billions wearing masks to cut transmission, gold‑standard evidence remains thin on the ground.'

Mask-scepticism finally starting to creep into the mainstream media? Let's hope so.

 

[duncanp]

I think the most interesting part of that article is right near the end where it says 'Despite billions wearing masks to cut transmission, gold‑standard evidence remains thin on the ground.'

Mask-scepticism finally starting to creep into the mainstream media? Let's hope so.

I think some of this is due to the current political situation.

All the locktvists and maskivists realise that Boris Johnson isn't going to introduce any new restrictions in his final few weeks as Prime Minister.

But they are hoping to scare the pants off the new Prime Minister, so that he or she will be panicked into introducing restrictions just like Boris Johnson was in March 2020.

 

[MikeWM]

I think some of this is due to the current political situation.

All the locktvists and maskivists realise that Boris Johnson isn't going to introduce any new restrictions in his final few weeks as Prime Minister.

But they are hoping to scare the pants off the new Prime Minister, so that he or she will be panicked into introducing restrictions just like Boris Johnson was in March 2020.

My suspicion is they know nothing will happen now, but they're rehearsing for pushing all these arguments yet, yet again in autumn/winter.

But it is really getting rather tedious now.

 

[kez19]

But the locktivists and maskivists just won't give up will they.

Apparently, the government strategy of living with COVID is "...the straw that is breaking the back of the NHS..."

They convenient ignore this quote from the article



and




I have just had a second bout of COVID myself, and it just like a cold for me, as it is for the vast majority of people.

Booster vaccines in the autumn for the mst vulnerable people should help to ease pressure on the NHS over the winter.

Locktivists, just give it a ******* rest. I have had it up to here with you.

Bring Covid curbs back AGAIN, say top medical journals

No10 has batted away calls to bring back pandemic-era curbs in response to the UK's soaring infections, which saw one in 20 people infected earlier this month.

www.dailymail.co.uk

How many times we going round again? Are they picking up the bills? (thought not), but I bet those advocating are well… aren’t doing it themselves!

Just to add I see the focus is still COVID they spoke to but what about colds/flus and other treatments do they not matter to the NHS (and those advocating) or not? I agree the backlogs in the NHS are pre-COVID but you can’t keep saying (and being in panic mode since 2 years now), using COVID as an excuse - get their fingers out and get on with the job, just to add if they care so much about COVID then other health matters too.

I think the most interesting part of that article is right near the end where it says 'Despite billions wearing masks to cut transmission, gold‑standard evidence remains thin on the ground.'

Mask-scepticism finally starting to creep into the mainstream media? Let's hope so.

The media should have questioned properly throughout this but chose fear than anything else, even if we were to say the media changing their tune, they’ll hop back over (that’s why I remain skeptical of media)

 

[duncanp]

My suspicion is they know nothing will happen now, but they're rehearsing for pushing all these arguments yet, yet again in autumn/winter.

But it is really getting rather tedious now.

And if it isn't COVID, it is the hot weather.

Then in the autumn, it will be "...we must ban large gatherings during the world cup, as this takes place bang in the middle of the flu season, and the NHS will completely collapse if we don't hibernate for the next six months..."

Then in the winter, it will be the cold weather.

Then next spring it will be ...(well give us time, we haven't thought of an excuse yet)

DAN WOOTTON: The health establishment is determined to baby us

For the vast majority of us, this IS a lovely hot day where we can put on a bit of sunscreen, go out and enjoy a swim and a meal outside, writes DAN WOOTTON.

www.dailymail.co.uk

DAN WOOTTON: I dislike extreme heat, but what I hate more is the health establishment determined to terrify and baby us. Just like Covid, we've got the balance all wrong – the healthy must go on as normal while helping the vulnerable​

Shuttered businesses, kids ordered to stay away from school, operations cancelled, job centres closed, public transport services wiped out, eco fear porn exploding across the BBC and government officials casually warning ‘thousands will die’.

Not Armageddon; not even a relatively mild virus this time.

Nope, the UK is grinding to a halt, with the tacit permission of those in power, because of two-days of temperatures many parts of the world must deal with on a weekly basis.

Now I dislike the extreme heat as much as the next big guy, especially given the reluctance from British businesses, workplaces, taxi drivers and eco zealot officials to embrace air conditioning, a standard luxury in much of the western world.

But what I hate even more is the health establishment determined to baby and terrify us thanks to their unhealthy obsession with power and control.

Festishising fear is now the norm – brilliant for TV ratings but appalling for a nation seemingly so ready to retreat into our homes and leave the hard work to others.

One of the worst offenders has been Tracy Nicholls, chief executive of the College of Paramedics, who warned yesterday: ‘This isn’t like a lovely hot day where we can put on a bit of sunscreen, go out and enjoy a swim and a meal outside. This is serious heat that could actually, ultimately, end in people’s deaths because it is so ferocious. We’re just not set up for that sort of heat in this country.’

What utter irresponsible alarmism.

For the vast majority of us, this IS a lovely hot day where we can put on a bit of sunscreen, go out and enjoy a swim and a meal outside just like we do while on a European summer holiday with absolutely no consequences to our health – and certainly without dropping dead.

There’s also the Met Office insisting that ‘in general’ it would be better to stay indoors, somewhat overstepping their traditional job of providing the temperature and weather conditions then letting us decide how to live.

So what I felt was needed was a bit of Churchill-like swashbuckling motivation from our Conservative political leaders to encourage the great British working spirit in the 99 per cent of us able to cope with the heat to keep the country open.

Instead, I got Cabinet minister Kit Malthouse sent out to suggest this week ‘may be a moment to work from home’.

There we have it: Stay at Home!

Of course! I knew it!

I mean, it’s the answer to every sort of minor crisis these days.

When the hell are we going to grow up and learn? It’s staying at home that has damned us to our current predicament of a cost-of-living crisis, soaring taxes and millions who don’t fancy getting a job.

Think about the consequences to the genuinely vulnerable of that advice in the midst of record temperatures, too.

If we were all to stay indoors, then who is available to protect those in need – to deliver their food, to care for them at the doctor’s surgery, to clean their homes and make sure they’re coping?

Just like with Covid, we've got the balance all wrong.

The young and the healthy should go about their business as usual, albeit being hot and sweaty, while focussing on protecting the old and vulnerable at genuine risk.

Instead, parents fuss around their lazy teenagers who moan it’s too hot to go to school.

Woke bosses accept lame excuses from staff members who can’t be bothered to come into the air conditioned office but are more than happy to ‘work’ from the park or the beach.

And the broadcast media trumpets increasingly extreme eco-proposals from activists, which would bankrupt Britain overnight, without the slightest hint at pushback.

Like the grim-faced Sly News reporter who allowed Chloe Brimicombe – a heatwave PhD researcher just out of nappies – to insist working hours must be cut and air conditioning legislated against if we’re to survive the summer, without the slightest hint of a challenge.

As outraged NHS GP Renee Hoenderkamp tweeted about TV’s irresponsible rolling coverage: ‘I don’t watch TV normally but in hospital today and turned on BBC News and what a mistake. It is wall to wall weather hysteria – correspondents all over the place in parks and even Battersea Dogs home advising on paddling pools for dogs. We have officially gone mad!’

The Beeb keeps banging on about how this is the first time a red heat warning has been issued for parts of the UK, while failing to mention the warning system was only introduced last year.

They also neglect to remind us of the 1976 summer heatwave when London experienced 16 consecutive days of temperatures over 30 degrees.

I’m also fed up with every minor public official thinking it’s their duty to take me back to primary school and insist I drink lots of water, use sunscreen and avoid all sunshine.

They also tend to suggest we should speak to our GPs if we have any concerns. Ha! Fat chance of that. Do they not understand the lockdowns killed off visits to the local doctor’s surgery at short notice in the UK, seemingly forever more?

Of course, the same bright sparks in charge of our response to this heatwave also banned fans in care homes and for nurses in hospitals, while encouraging folk to wear face nappies outdoors in the middle of summer, so forgive me for having little faith in any of their advice.

All this heatwave has convinced me of is that British authorities are currently devoid of the concept of personal responsibility and empowerment, something that has to return and fast.

The government must start to understand if people are continually told to stay at home at the slightest hint of a challenge, even if that challenge is a 40-degree day, then our work ethic and ability to run the country efficiently will be stamped out for a generation.

 

[kez19]

And if it isn't COVID, it is the hot weather.

Then in the autumn, it will be "...we must ban large gatherings during the world cup, as this takes place bang in the middle of the flu season, and the NHS will completely collapse if we don't hibernate for the next six months..."

Then in the winter, it will be the cold weather.

Then next spring it will be ...(well give us time, we haven't thought of an excuse yet)

DAN WOOTTON: The health establishment is determined to baby us

For the vast majority of us, this IS a lovely hot day where we can put on a bit of sunscreen, go out and enjoy a swim and a meal outside, writes DAN WOOTTON.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Not that I normally agree but he is spot on!

 

[Yew]

I would say that 50 is too young, IMO. It suggests people of around that age are generally unfit and vulnerable to serious illness, which maybe they were several generations ago, but this was not even the case in the 1990s (based on the people I know born in the 1940s), let alone now.

If it stops people from panicking, I don't mind.

 

[Class 33]

Something I noticed from that Daily Mail article DuncanP posted above today....

Polls show Britons are already responding to the resurgence, with three in 10 people reporting staying at home to avoid Covid in the last month and four in 10 wearing a face mask. Almost half observed social distancing rules that have not been in place since February, while two-thirds said they had sanitised their hands.

What absolute bloody nonsense!! These polls are hardly representative of the people of the UK!

Four in ten people wearing face masks again??!! Really??!!! From my observations over the last month I'd say on average it's more like about four in a HUNDRED at a MAXIMUM wearing them! Here in Bristol whilst I noticed a SLIGHT uptick in people wearing them during late June and early July, I've noticed this has receeded again already

Almost HALF of people now observing social distancing rules again??? From my observations hardly anyone is social distancing now, and it's been like this for many many months now! Has the person/s who wrote this article been out onto the streets lately??!! It's incredibly RARE to see anyone doing that nonsense charade now!!!! And what's this about "social distancing rules that have not been in place since February"??? Social distancing "rules" were scrapped a YEAR ago now!!!!

 

[bramling]

I'd have argued you aggressively build capacity (which, to be fair, we started to do with the Nightingales) *and* staffing, by rapidly mobilising some of the vast numbers of people who had just been put on furlough, combined with bringing doctors/nurses back after retirement/leaving the profession. Basically, if you're going to put curbs on the population that would only normally be justified in wartime, because apparently the issue is so important, then treat other things in the way you would in wartime in an attempt to fix them.

Oddly not a single country in the world did that, however. Instead, in almost every country we saw the objective swiftly and silently 'morph' from 'flatten the curve' to '(futilely) try to stop people dying'. Understandable perhaps, but wrong.

Of course I agree we shouldn't have locked down at all. We had the correct policy in the press conference of 12th March, but then over the following weekend something dramatically changed. Within a week the only public person that appeared to be asking 'hold on, is this a good idea' was Peter Hitchens.

https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.c...urbs-on-ancient-liberties-really-the-bes.html

Everything stems from what happened in those couple of weeks in mid-March 2020. And all of it bad.

Looking back, one does wonder how much the Boris Johnson effect had on this. Until that weekend, it does seem to be the case that little at all had been done in mitigation, and - perhaps more to the point - little *appeared* to have been done. An occupational hazard of having a PM whose main qualification seems to have been writing semi-funny (or perhaps more accurately offensive) magazine articles. This simply didn’t sit well with the news which was flowing out of Italy, combined with the unknown nature of all this. Johnson simply didn’t appear to be in control of the situation.

And here was the problem. China’s lockdown seems to have been a belated attempt at elimination - which presumably might just have worked had they been able to get in super early and contain things (though whether this would ever have been viable is a matter of conjecture).

All other lockdowns were simply an emergency measure to buy time. Yet they seem to have become all different things to all different people. An almighty failure of government in completely failing to define and communicate all this to the population, instead letting things drift to the point where the emergency response became “business as usual”. The emergency response was going to be severely damaging, but allowing it to become business as usual has proved near-ruinous in a number of ways.

Meanwhile, as we’ve said numerous times - where was and is any plan to uplift NHS capacity, in particular to address the backlog? That backlog isn’t going to be dealt with by people banging pots. It’s actually quite odd we’ve heard so little on this.

 

[yorkie]

...and the Zoe page has now been updated; we're down to:

Daily new cases of COVID
Total numbers of new daily cases across the UK
339,333

And the reduction in estimated infections continues:

Daily new cases of COVID
Total numbers of new daily cases across the UK
334,010

Note the Zoe page is a bit off with the wording as it should say "Estimated infections" or similar, rather than refer to numbers of cases.

 

[Mikw]

I'd have argued you aggressively build capacity (which, to be fair, we started to do with the Nightingales) *and* staffing, by rapidly mobilising some of the vast numbers of people who had just been put on furlough, combined with bringing doctors/nurses back after retirement/leaving the profession. Basically, if you're going to put curbs on the population that would only normally be justified in wartime, because apparently the issue is so important, then treat other things in the way you would in wartime in an attempt to fix them.

Oddly not a single country in the world did that, however. Instead, in almost every country we saw the objective swiftly and silently 'morph' from 'flatten the curve' to '(futilely) try to stop people dying'. Understandable perhaps, but wrong.

Of course I agree we shouldn't have locked down at all. We had the correct policy in the press conference of 12th March, but then over the following weekend something dramatically changed. Within a week the only public person that appeared to be asking 'hold on, is this a good idea' was Peter Hitchens.

https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.c...urbs-on-ancient-liberties-really-the-bes.html

Everything stems from what happened in those couple of weeks in mid-March 2020. And all of it bad.

According to a BBC documentary Macron called up Boris and demanded the lockdown and said he'd close down the border if he didn't. He was maddened by his "shaking hands with everyone" speech and his general limpness. But this has never been verified.

 

[Cdd89]

I also agree we should never have locked down in March 2020, I felt from day 1 the damage caused would far outweigh any good it did. The reason so many were scared was down the atrocious messaging from both the government and the media

Up until other countries in Europe started locking down, I honestly didn't think there was any chance of the UK doing so. I expected strong advice, a short period in which there would be minimal healthcare available, and a lot of deaths. I thought that people would reject the idea of lockdowns.

If Covid-19 originated in the UK, I don't think we would have locked down. Rather, Covid and then lockdowns happened in countries from most-to-least authoritarian - China, Italy, Spain, France, UK. So by the time France locked down, the idea was sold to the UK.

Of course I agree we shouldn't have locked down at all. We had the correct policy in the press conference of 12th March, but then over the following weekend something dramatically changed. Within a week the only public person that appeared to be asking 'hold on, is this a good idea' was Peter Hitchens.

What's truly fascinating (about public opinion at the time) is the same article on the DailyMail's main site includes a disclaimer at the top that it's a personal view, it may enrage many, and comments are not accepted on the main article page. In other words, the article was too controversial for (even) the Mail to accept as within reasonable boundaries of opinion; I don't think I've ever seen that before or since; even though many papers published anti-lockdown articles in the subsequent months pre-vaccine.

 

[Eyersey468]

Oh I agree, we locked down because the majority of other countries had and we didn't want to be seen to do differently in case we got worse results.

 

[Mag_seven]

instead letting things drift to the point where the emergency response became “business as usual”.

Even worse as some restrictions were being touted by the media as some sort of "new normal".

 

[Drogba11CFC]

Then in the autumn, it will be "...we must ban large gatherings during the world cup, as this takes place bang in the middle of the flu season, and the NHS will completely collapse if we don't hibernate for the next six months..."

You can guarantee they will be desperate to do that; what better way to make sure nobody is able to enjoy it?

 

[Mikw]

But the locktivists and maskivists just won't give up will they.

Apparently, the government strategy of living with COVID is "...the straw that is breaking the back of the NHS..."

They convenient ignore this quote from the article



and




I have just had a second bout of COVID myself, and it just like a cold for me, as it is for the vast majority of people.

Booster vaccines in the autumn for the mst vulnerable people should help to ease pressure on the NHS over the winter.

Locktivists, just give it a ******* rest. I have had it up to here with you.

Bring Covid curbs back AGAIN, say top medical journals

No10 has batted away calls to bring back pandemic-era curbs in response to the UK's soaring infections, which saw one in 20 people infected earlier this month.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I don't know what people are worried about, the only metric to bring in a lockdown is NHS capacity. I'd like it higher, and i think the policy of less iTU beds has backfired, along with austerity, but if Hospital admissions is beginning to go down there there's no chance of another lockdown.

 

[Richard Scott]

I don't know what people are worried about, the only metric to bring in a lockdown is NHS capacity. I'd like it higher, and i think the policy of less iTU beds has backfired, along with austerity, but if Hospital admissions is beginning to go down there there's no chance of another lockdown.

Why do you keep going on about NHS capacity? Are you saying those vaccines were a waste of time? The reason for all those vaccinations was exactly to ensure infections didn't result in hospitalisation or worse. Most hospitalisation were in elderly people so majority if population not at risk so absolutely no need to even discuss NHS capacity. As far as this virus is concerned it's not a big problem now.

 

[Bikeman78]

What absolute bloody nonsense!! These polls are hardly representative of the people of the UK!

Four in ten people wearing face masks again??!! Really??!!! From my observations over the last month I'd say on average it's more like about four in a HUNDRED at a MAXIMUM wearing them!

I agree. In the real world it's much closer to 4% than 40%. Where do they get these numbers?

 

[bramling]

I agree. In the real world it's much closer to 4% than 40%. Where do they get these numbers?

If it’s 40% of people then there are fairies at the bottom of my garden. I’ve been in Wales for two weeks, and have barely seen a mask. As usual, it will be a slightly different story when I return home to Hertfordshire.

Why do you keep going on about NHS capacity? Are you saying those vaccines were a waste of time? The reason for all those vaccinations was exactly to ensure infections didn't result in hospitalisation or worse. Most hospitalisation were in elderly people so majority if population not at risk so absolutely no need to even discuss NHS capacity. As far as this virus is concerned it's not a big problem now.

The bigger issue, for the time being at least, is NHS capacity to deal with the backlog of non-Covid stuff.

 

[Richard Scott]

The bigger issue, for the time being at least, is NHS capacity to deal with the backlog of non-Covid stuff.

Exactly, another issue that a number if us said two years ago would be one of the consequences of restrictions.

 

[Mikw]

Why do you keep going on about NHS capacity? Are you saying those vaccines were a waste of time? The reason for all those vaccinations was exactly to ensure infections didn't result in hospitalisation or worse. Most hospitalisation were in elderly people so majority if population not at risk so absolutely no need to even discuss NHS capacity. As far as this virus is concerned it's not a big problem now.

Nope, just that it is the ONLY reason to lock down, it's the ONLY metric. Nothing else will lead to a lockdown. And that is why i said "I wouldn't worry about it" (or words to that effect) as we're ok now.

Might not be the case in the autumn/winter with a bad flu season a possibility, but it's fine now.

No, i'm not saying "vaccines are a waste of time", clearly not, please don't say i've said things i haven't, thanks.

Vaccines are not a magic bullet though, but they do reduce severity. However that is not a guarentee that everyone will be ok, as some haven't had it, some will have waning immunity, and - just like the flu vaccine - it has to change every now and then.

If it’s 40% of people then there are fairies at the bottom of my garden. I’ve been in Wales for two weeks, and have barely seen a mask. As usual, it will be a slightly different story when I return home to Hertfordshire.



The bigger issue, for the time being at least, is NHS capacity to deal with the backlog of non-Covid stuff.

Yes, that too. That's important to remember.

 

[yorkie]

Nope, just that it is the ONLY reason to lock down, it's the ONLY metric. Nothing else will lead to a lockdown. And that is why i said "I wouldn't worry about it" (or words to that effect) as we're ok now.

Nothing will or could lead to a lockdown as the majority of people are simply not going to put up with it anymore.

Also we can't afford it; are you and the others who aren't opposed to the idea of lockdowns offering to pay for it?

If all the people who think lockdowns could be viable agree to take on the debt, then I could be swayed...

 

[MikeWM]

Looking back, one does wonder how much the Boris Johnson effect had on this. Until that weekend, it does seem to be the case that little at all had been done in mitigation, and - perhaps more to the point - little *appeared* to have been done. An occupational hazard of having a PM whose main qualification seems to have been writing semi-funny (or perhaps more accurately offensive) magazine articles. This simply didn’t sit well with the news which was flowing out of Italy, combined with the unknown nature of all this. Johnson simply didn’t appear to be in control of the situation.

Perhaps that did mitigate against the possibility of us being able to 'do a Sweden', but I suspect from what we saw in the rest of the world is that it is most likely that another PM would probably have done the same, perhaps earlier and/or perhaps harder. Probably for very different reasons, only Sweden, Belarus and South Dakota seemed to manage to resist that global pressure. (For all the, often deserved, praise that Ron DeSantis now gets for his hardline positions against Covid measures, even he did lock down Florida at first).

Meanwhile, as we’ve said numerous times - where was and is any plan to uplift NHS capacity, in particular to address the backlog? That backlog isn’t going to be dealt with by people banging pots. It’s actually quite odd we’ve heard so little on this.

Well, yes indeed. How much longer are we supposed to accept 'capacity of the NHS' as an impediment to our leading normal lives? Forever?

---

According to a BBC documentary Macron called up Boris and demanded the lockdown and said he'd close down the border if he didn't. He was maddened by his "shaking hands with everyone" speech and his general limpness. But this has never been verified.

Given the border problems we've had since all around the world, we probably should have just accepted that one and done our own thing.

---

What's truly fascinating (about public opinion at the time) is the same article on the DailyMail's main site includes a disclaimer at the top that it's a personal view, it may enrage many, and comments are not accepted on the main article page. In other words, the article was too controversial for (even) the Mail to accept as within reasonable boundaries of opinion; I don't think I've ever seen that before or since; even though many papers published anti-lockdown articles in the subsequent months pre-vaccine.

That's very interesting; I'd not noticed that (or if I had, I'd forgotten in the intervening couple of years)!

It did feel rather lonely and odd to be 'anti-lockdown' for those first few weeks. At that point only Peter Hitchens, a few anonymous accounts on Twitter and one or two 'alternative news' sites seemed to be reflecting what I thought was terribly obvious, ie. that the whole thing was a crazy over-reaction that would cause far more problems than it was 'solving'.

 

[Mikw]

Nothing will or could lead to a lockdown as the majority of people are simply not going to put up with it anymore.

Also we can't afford it; are you and the others who aren't opposed to the idea of lockdowns offering to pay for it?

If all the people who think lockdowns could be viable agree to take on the debt, then I could be swayed...

Remember i said i didn't want to see another lockdown. I was replying to the poster who asked why i was talking about NHS capacity, it's the only thing that triggers lockdowns. nothing else will.

As a point of fact there's mechanisms in place for social distancing and other measures but for bad flu seasons, not just Covid, using the same metric.

It doesn't matter whether we say we'llobey or not, there's always a chance of enforcement with draconian emergency laws and bonkers fines. These will always remain an option no matter whether some of the public obey or not.

I will salute my local police force here, after the stupid fine those two ladies got for meeting up at a resevoir, they tweeted to say they wouldn't be enforcing these laws because of use of the word "local" being far to general. They were quickly contacted by the nudge unit to delete the tweet though.

I agree we can't afford another lockdown, the effects of Brexit and Covid on top of each other are too much for this one country to bear.

So, if we get a bad Covid surge on top of a bad flu season, the powers that be will have to choose wether to spend big on ITU bed capacity (the opposite to the "better care together" plan), or do nothing and hope for the best (and cope with the inevitable people not being treated for life threatening illnesses) or lockdown again. Not something i want that last option, but it will always be there for pandemics and times when a "normal" is exceeded.

 

[yorkie]

Remember i said i didn't want to see another lockdown

That's fine because there isn't going to be one!

. I was replying to the poster who asked why i was talking about NHS capacity, it's the only thing that triggers lockdowns. nothing else will.

Nothing will trigger one because people won't accept it and we can't afford it.

As a point of fact there's mechanisms in place for social distancing and other measures but for bad flu seasons, not just Covid, using the same metric.

Good luck getting people to go through this charade again!

It doesn't matter whether we say we'llobey or not, there's always a chance of enforcement with draconian emergency laws and bonkers fines.

That just isn't going to happen!

These will always remain an option no matter whether some of the public obey or not.

Nope; we're not in China and people just wouldn't put up with it. The Government wouldn't try it on here.

I will salute my local police force here, after the stupid fine those two ladies got for meeting up at a resevoir, they tweeted to say they wouldn't be enforcing these laws because of use of the word "local" being far to general. They were quickly contacted by the nudge unit to delete the tweet though.

Local was only guidance anyway; the police acted totally inappropriately. You're in Derbyshire I take it? The police there were an absolute disgrace and acted unlawfully.

 

[Mikw]

That's fine because there isn't going to be one!

Nothing will trigger one because people won't accept it and we can't afford it.

Good luck getting people to go through this charade again!

That just isn't going to happen!

Nope; we're not in China and people just wouldn't put up with it. The Government wouldn't try it on here.

Local was only guidance anyway; the police acted totally inappropriately. You're in Derbyshire I take it? The police there were an absolute disgrace and acted unlawfully.

I'm for Leicestershire, our police - apart from big parties - ignored most of the meeting rules as the emergency law was badly worded. They even tweeted to say they wouldn't enforce, then deleted after a word from the nudge unit.

It doesn't matter how many times people say "it won't ever happen again". Unless you're in government, and even them some of them were opposed to the restrictions but still voted for them when whipped.

The scope for civil disobedience has been restricted somewhat by the new policing bill as well.

There's been plans in places for years for pandemics and other transmissable virus's consisting of distancing and in extremis, lockdowns.

The only way to take this threat away forever is to go back to the policy of having more than enough ITU beds, Rather than "just enough" (in normal circumstances). Perhaps we will in time. Cuts in anything tend to come back and bite you in the backside later.

"Better care together" is an interesting one. Basically combining services onto fewer sites and buildings with a greater emphasis placed on day care and care at home. With the combined sites becoming some of the "new" hospitals, and the other sites downsizing and becoming medical hubs rather than hospitals.

On paper it's not a bad idea but it does mean less ITU beds in the long run.

 

[yorkie]

I'm for Leicestershire, our police - apart from big parties - ignored most of the meeting rules as the emergency law was badly worded. They even tweeted to say they wouldn't enforce, then deleted after a word from the nudge unit.

It doesn't matter how many times people say "it won't ever happen again". Unless you're in government, and even them some of them were opposed to the restrictions but still voted for them when whipped.

The scope for civil disobedience has been restricted somewhat by the new policing bill as well.

There's been plans in places for years for pandemics and other transmissable virus's consisting of distancing and in extremis, lockdowns.

Fine, you may go along with it, but many people simply won't.

The only way to take this threat away forever is to go back to the policy of having more than enough ITU beds, Rather than "just enough" (in normal circumstances). Perhaps we will in time. Cuts in anything tend to come back and bite you in the backside later.

There is no "threat" because people won't go along with it and we can't afford it.