Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[WatcherZero]

The full article says a temporary platform will be constructed on the branch lines.

 

[1179_Clee2]

Update in new RAIL magazine 825 regarding Rail Live 2017

The modified D-Train will be ready to resume main line testing on the Cotswold Line in May. Providing safety certification is then granted, the public will be given a first opportunity to ride it on June 21-22 at Rail Live 2017.

 

[swt_passenger]

Update in new RAIL magazine 825 regarding Rail Live 2017

The modified D-Train will be ready to resume main line testing on the Cotswold Line in May. Providing safety certification is then granted, the public will be given a first opportunity to ride it on June 21-22 at Rail Live 2017.

Rail Live is not really a "public" event though. is it?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Rail Live is not really a "public" event though. is it?

Visitors to Rail Live 2017 become "public" in the understanding of the term in relation to their conveyance of same by a train that still awaits safety certification or by a train that has received such accreditation.

 

[anthony263]

The current of Modern Railways has an article stating the welsh government are seriously considering of the option of class 230 D Trains especially with regards to replacing the pacers fleets as porterbrook have said they are not prepared to modify any pacers now with Northern replacing theirs.

The roscos have also stated that the decision to modify the class 150/2 fleet needs to be taken asap as it will be too late if the decision is left to whoever takes on the new franchise.

I personally will be happy if the class 230's do appear especially if they prove to work well and settle down to be good workhorses on the valley lines network

 

[D365]

As far as Pacers go, the 144e demonstrator unit was rather nice. I suppose with the lack of interest and Porterbrook's focus shifting to the "D319", the writing was always on the wall.

When it comes to the Class 150s however, unless the aforementioned D319 (or even the D323) is a massive success, the DMU shortage is only going to continue. Somebody's going to have to cough up. And with electrification being put back all the time (I doubt we'll see electrics in the Valleys even by 2024), the Class 230s could well be a viable option for the short to medium term.

 

[mic505]

To modify ATW's 150/2's would cost £10 million, assuming bodywork and corrosion repairs. 158s would only require minor works.

 

[PHILIPE]

The current of Modern Railways has an article stating the welsh government are seriously considering of the option of class 230 D Trains especially with regards to replacing the pacers fleets as porterbrook have said they are not prepared to modify any pacers now with Northern replacing theirs.

The roscos have also stated that the decision to modify the class 150/2 fleet needs to be taken asap as it will be too late if the decision is left to whoever takes on the new franchise.

I personally will be happy if the class 230's do appear especially if they prove to work well and settle down to be good workhorses on the valley lines network

I read somewhere on the Forum that the Welsh Government were given the tip that the 150s would have to be modified as far back as 2013. In the meantime, I'll try and find the link to this.

 

[gareth950]

I read somewhere on the Forum that the Welsh Government were given the tip that the 150s would have to be modified as far back as 2013. In the meantime, I'll try and find the link to this.

This article is from October 2013: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-trains-face-51m-upgrade-6212183

ATW does not need to modify any trains, because its franchise ends in October 2018. However, rolling stock company Porterbrook Leasing told Assembly Members that the modifications will have to start well before 2018.

“As currently configured, 73% of the train fleet cannot operate in passenger service on 1 January 2020 and beyond,” said Keith Howard of Porterbrook Leasing, which owns 40% of the trains used by ATW.

“This will become a major problem well before the end of the current franchise as it will be impossible for the next franchisee to deal with this issue. It must be dealt with now by the current franchisee and the Welsh Assembly.

The Welsh Govt decided to ignore that advice and do nothing. Only now are they starting to panic.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The current of Modern Railways has an article stating the welsh government are seriously considering of the option of class 230 D Trains especially with regards to replacing the pacers fleets as porterbrook have said they are not prepared to modify any pacers now with Northern replacing theirs.

The roscos have also stated that the decision to modify the class 150/2 fleet needs to be taken asap as it will be too late if the decision is left to whoever takes on the new franchise.

I personally will be happy if the class 230's do appear especially if they prove to work well and settle down to be good workhorses on the valley lines network

How many of the Class 230 units would be required to replace the Pacer fleet there and based upon the latest known statement from Vivarail on its monthly production plans and envisaged starting date for full production, how many units would be produced by the time of the Pacer fleet withdrawal?

 

[47802]

How many of the Class 230 units would be required to replace the Pacer fleet there and based upon the latest known statement from Vivarail on its monthly production plans and envisaged starting date for full production, how many units would be produced by the time of the Pacer fleet withdrawal?

I believe Arriva Wales have around 30 Pacer's at present, so producing 2 trains a month from November it shouldn't be a problem meeting the Pacer withdrawal deadline.

 

[colchesterken]

Will the 230s have enough power to get up them hills, a couple of trannie engines do not sound powerful enough to generate the juice needed

 

[D365]

How many of the Class 230 units would be required to replace the Pacer fleet there and based upon the latest known statement from Vivarail on its monthly production plans and envisaged starting date for full production, how many units would be produced by the time of the Pacer fleet withdrawal?

Arrival Trains Wales operate thirty Pacer units, so I assume that would be the minimum required quantity. However since the Class 153s are also not going to be refurbished in their current state, it might not be unreasonable to replace those with refurbished Class 150s displaced from the Cardiff lines by a number of additional Class 230s.

If the order for Class 230 units takes place in good time before the 2020 deadline, an exemption for any remaining BR units might be granted if the replacement fleet is not fully introduced in time.

 

[47802]

Arrival Trains Wales operate thirty Pacer units, so I assume that would be the minimum required quantity. However since the Class 153s are also not going to be refurbished in their current state, it might not be unreasonable to replace those with refurbished Class 150s displaced from the Cardiff lines by a number of additional Class 230s.

If the order for Class 230 units takes place in good time before the 2020 deadline, an exemption for any remaining BR units might be granted if the replacement fleet is not fully introduced in time.

It depends really they might also take some cascaded stock which would cover the 153's and possibly allow more 150's to be concentrated on the Valley Lines so they might get away with less than 30 units.

 

[D365]

Depends really where the cascaded stock would come from. Don't think that Greater Anglia would be releasing enough units in time?

 

[47802]

Depends really where the cascaded stock would come from. Don't think that Greater Anglia would be releasing enough units in time?

Well you said yourself a short exemption might be needed, there is also potentially the 185's, short HST sets, new stock order's all of which are likely to be pushing it for the deadline, while a 30+ unit D230 order does seem possible before the deadline it does of course it assume's no delays on the part of Vivarail which I wouldn't exactly put money on, and of course an order would need to be placed fairly soon.

 

[Andrew1395]

Perhaps someone could fit a steam boiler on them and this thread could get moved to the Preservation section

 

[gareth950]

I believe Arriva Wales have around 30 Pacer's at present, so producing 2 trains a month from November it shouldn't be a problem meeting the Pacer withdrawal deadline.

ATW also have 36 x 150/2s, none of which are PRM compliant. Unless they are withdrawn steadily for PRM work starting immediately, which won't happen as the Welsh Govt can't making a decision about what it wants, all the 150/2s in Wales will have to be withdrawn on mass for mod work in late 2018-2019, so DMUs will be needed from somewhere to cover for the shortage this will cause in Wales whilst they are away.

Apart from sending a load of Pacers down from Northern prior to being scrapped to cover this shortfall, it's difficult to see where the DMU cover needed will come from. Vivarail aren't going to build surplus D-trains that could only be needed in service for a year or so.

 

[47802]

ATW also have 36 x 150/2s, none of which are PRM compliant. Unless they are withdrawn steadily for PRM work starting immediately, which won't happen as the Welsh Govt can't making a decision about what it wants, all the 150/2s in Wales will have to be withdrawn on mass for mod work in late 2018-2019, so DMUs will be needed from somewhere to cover for the shortage this will cause in Wales whilst they are away.

Apart from sending a load of Pacers down from Northern prior to being scrapped to cover this shortfall, it's difficult to see where the DMU cover needed will come from. Vivarail aren't going to build surplus D-trains that could only be needed in service for a year or so.

Well if the Welsh Gov made their mind up and decided to get some D trains then the first batches could be used initially to cover for 150's withdrawn for PRM work its not impossible something could be worked out, but its clearly getting difficult, but I suspect the welsh franchise isn't the only franchise with potential issues in this respect, for instance by the time the EMT franchise is re let its going to tight to deal with the 153's and HST in terms of replacement or making them compliant.

 

[fgwrich]

Depends really where the cascaded stock would come from. Don't think that Greater Anglia would be releasing enough units in time?

Not only that, but I cant really see what GA operates that would be suitable for Valley Lines use - even if they are DMUs.

 

[D365]

Not only that, but I cant really see what GA operates that would be suitable for Valley Lines use - even if they are DMUs.

I was thinking more for replacing the 153s and the 150s on non-Valley Lines work.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I believe Arriva Wales have around 30 Pacer's at present, so producing 2 trains a month from November it shouldn't be a problem meeting the Pacer withdrawal deadline.

If we believe what Vivarail have said, the November 2017 production start date would be to fulfil those Class 230 units that they already hold existing orders for.

 

[D365]

If we believe what Vivarail have said, the November 2017 production start date would be to fulfil those Class 230 units that they already hold existing orders for.

Perhaps the existing order is for Wales.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Perhaps the existing order is for Wales.

If that be the case, surely the official order would have been formally announced, in the same way that the 12-month contract was for the now-closed Coventry-Nuneaton line project

 

[47802]

If we believe what Vivarail have said, the November 2017 production start date would be to fulfil those Class 230 units that they already hold existing orders for.

Well of course it depends how big this existing order is for this mysterious customer, there was a hint on WNXX that the order isn't a double digit order in which case an order for Wales could still be achievable, and also whether 2 per month is max capacity for Vivarail.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Well of course it depends how big this existing order is for this mysterious customer, there was a hint on WNXX that the order isn't a double digit order in which case an order for Wales could still be achievable, and also whether 2 per month is max capacity for Vivarail.

My money (metaphorical money of course, I know better than to bet on anything rail related!) Is still on the initial order being bubble-car replacement for Chiltern...

 

[Nym]

My money (metaphorical money of course, I know better than to bet on anything rail related!) Is still on the initial order being bubble-car replacement for Chiltern...

Quite. Perhaps a mass order of stock to operate from Ammersham to Marlybone, lower linespeed doesn't really matter, nor do through gangways, and they already have electrically interlocked trip cocks fitted. Possibly send Vivarail begging to Booths of Rotherham or similar to get hold of some UNDM cars for longer units...?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Quite. Perhaps a mass order of stock to operate from Ammersham to Marlybone, lower linespeed doesn't really matter, nor do through gangways, and they already have electrically interlocked trip cocks fitted. Possibly send Vivarail begging to Booths of Rotherham or similar to get hold of some UNDM cars for longer units...?

I was more thinking just 2-3 units for Aylesbury to Risborough, but with the price of scrap metal being low at the moment perhaps the cutters won't be in a rush to turn the UNDMs into baked bean cans and razor blades!

 

[Nym]

I was more thinking just 2-3 units for Aylesbury to Risborough, but with the price of scrap metal being low at the moment perhaps the cutters won't be in a rush to turn the UNDMs into baked bean cans and razor blades!

They're proberbly in the process of stripping out the LT118 motors for all the easy copper. Possibly recovering hard to find spares that the train is riddled with.

 

[RPM]

My money (metaphorical money of course, I know better than to bet on anything rail related!) Is still on the initial order being bubble-car replacement for Chiltern...

It would make a lot of sense, but if it is the case then they are keeping it very quiet. I haven't heard the slightest whisper.