Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[class387]

It's great to see old stuff given a new lease of life, like the 442s, but oh dear... ironing boards...

Thought the old underground seats were retained like the Welsh 230s as seen in the Vivarail-TfW CGI video, anyway they do look good compared to the outgoing Marston Vale trains which are looking tired and battered

I think they are Quantum seats (as on Renatus 321s), which are much more comfortable, not Fainsa ironing boards.

The longitudinal District Line seats also are retained in parts of the train and they are very well padded.

 

[Dstock7080]

Are they getting aircon? If not only one opening window won’t be enough.

Retains same amount of opening windows (except end-communicating door) as when modified on the District Line, 1983-84

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Retains same amount of opening windows (except end-communicating door) as when modified on the District Line, 1983-84

Loadings on the Marston Vale are unlikely to exceed those on the District Line in the high peak hour in any case !

 

[Clip]

I think that very many months have now elapsed since I voiced my views solely on a matter of commercial rather than operational success based upon the total sales made since this project was launched. Having in the earliest days of the Class 142 Pacer trains sampled that particular mode of rail travel and now being 73 years of age, I have no wish whatsoever to travel the many miles to where Class 230 units can be seen in revenue earning service, preferring to sample rail travel in 21st century styled rail units in the 21st century.

Ahh what a shame Paul. Though not many 21st century trains running round your neck of the woods right now eh

 

[Bletchleyite]

Retains same amount of opening windows (except end-communicating door) as when modified on the District Line, 1983-84

I'd retain my view, then, that it will be inadequate, and that they should have fitted openers on the blocked-out doors. The end door is what provides almost all the ventilation on a Tube train.

 

[samuelmorris]

That's a fair point actually, though that is predominantly due to the tunnel sections. Surely this is the sort of thing that will have been tested?

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's a fair point actually, though that is predominantly due to the tunnel sections. Surely this is the sort of thing that will have been tested?

Given the rather silly and expensive error with the Bozza buses, I'm not confident. Though I expect fitting 4 more openers per coach (on the blanked out doors) wouldn't be excessively expensive.

 

[northwichcat]

Though to be fair, the whole concept isn't really aimed at services which run at high speeds along busy main lines. They had to get it from the factory to Bletchley somehow, and you know how some people on here get whenever a train is moved by road!

At one point Vivarail were trying to get an order of around 75 D-Trains from the Northern franchise as direct Pacer replacements but common sense prevailed, except in the case of the plan to temporarily use one on the Chester-Crewe shuttle which has a c.25 minute journey time when the unit runs at up to 75mph so 60mph running will mean very short turnaround times.

 

[pompeyfan]

What purpose do the white lights on the side of the train serve?

 

[Bletchleyite]

At one point Vivarail were trying to get an order of around 75 D-Trains from the Northern franchise as direct Pacer replacements but common sense prevailed, except in the case of the plan to temporarily use one on the Chester-Crewe shuttle which has a c.25 minute journey time when the unit runs at up to 75mph so 60mph running will mean very short turnaround times.

There are quite a number of Northern services where they would be entirely suitable with a bit of a minor timetable recast. You could for instance split all Cumbrian Coast services at Barrow and use them north of there, or the Windermere branch as a shuttle only (the unit could be swapped over at very quiet times when running on the WCML wouldn't be a concern), or Kirkby-Wigan as a self contained shuttle to name but three. Given that Northern have not ordered anywhere near enough new rolling stock for the capacity uplift that is needed, I still wouldn't rule out seeing them later if they are successful on the Marston Vale.

 

[northwichcat]

There are quite a number of Northern services where they would be entirely suitable with a bit of a minor timetable recast. You could for instance split all Cumbrian Coast services at Barrow and use them north of there, or the Windermere branch as a shuttle only (the unit could be swapped over at very quiet times when running on the WCML wouldn't be a concern), or Kirkby-Wigan as a self contained shuttle to name but three. Given that Northern have not ordered anywhere near enough new rolling stock for the capacity uplift that is needed, I still wouldn't rule out seeing them later if they are successful on the Marston Vale.

Routes should be decided on passenger demand, not where non-standard trains can or can't be used.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Routes should be decided on passenger demand, not where non-standard trains can or can't be used.

Routes are decided based on a mixture of factors. It is not possible to have a through train from everywhere to everywhere, and as the primary crisis on Northern is one of capacity, the ability to solve this must take precedence over the provision of through trains.

 

[northwichcat]

Routes are decided based on a mixture of factors. It is not possible to have a through train from everywhere to everywhere, and as the primary crisis on Northern is one of capacity, the ability to solve this must take precedence over the provision of through trains.

Sometimes a through train creates fewer pathing issues than two different terminating trains.

 

[DarloRich]

as an addition to yesterday the unit arriving at Beltchley took an odd route. It arrived in platform 4 , ran to the junction just south of the station to access platform 5 and subsequently the TMD.

The sensible route form the north would have been into the goods loop, then platform 5 then the depot!

 

[A0]

as an addition to yesterday the unit arriving at Beltchley took an odd route. It arrived in platform 4 , ran to the junction just south of the station to access platform 5 and subsequently the TMD.

The sensible route form the north would have been into the goods loop, then platform 5 then the depot!

Could be driver route clearance or could be they wanted to run it through the station to check clearances which the goods loop wouldn't have done.

Doesn't seem to have come out to play yet today - at least not that I've noticed.

 

[DarloRich]

Could be driver route clearance or could be they wanted to run it through the station to check clearances which the goods loop wouldn't have done.

Doesn't seem to have come out to play yet today - at least not that I've noticed.

yes i assumed a route clearance issue - it has got to Bedford but RT isnt showing correctly

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sometimes a through train creates fewer pathing issues than two different terminating trains.

This obviously depends on the situation. Barrow, for instance, has more platforms than it needs and is perfectly able to cope with this situation, with many of the trains being connectional anyway. Windermere is mostly a shuttle anyway, there are only a few through trains.

 

[The Planner]

I'd be very surprised if there were any Sectional Running Times for 14x on this route, given that none has ever been near it as far as I'm aware. I'm thinking they just put 14x in because they had to put something in the Timing Load box, and the actual timings would have come from a performance simulation or just guesswork.

There are none, it was VSTP so control put a finger in the air and manually entered the schedule.

 

[westcoaster]

yes i assumed a route clearance issue - it has got to Bedford but RT isnt showing correctly

Also may have been quicker to do the mainlime shunt and straight in than dawdle along the goods.
Is it out today.

 

[DarloRich]

Also may have been quicker to do the mainlime shunt and straight in than dawdle along the goods.
Is it out today.

it blocked a following train though - not a biggie mind

 

[Chris125]

I'd retain my view, then, that it will be inadequate, and that they should have fitted openers on the blocked-out doors. The end door is what provides almost all the ventilation on a Tube train.

I think you said there was only one opening window, but if you look closely there are three hopper windows per carriage side - 12 for the complete unit.

 

[mushroomchow]

I think you said there was only one opening window, but if you look closely there are three hopper windows per carriage side - 12 for the complete unit.

I look forward to some idiot leaving them open when I take my first ride on one in the run-up to Christmas.

 

[A0]

as an addition to yesterday the unit arriving at Beltchley took an odd route. It arrived in platform 4 , ran to the junction just south of the station to access platform 5 and subsequently the TMD.

The sensible route form the north would have been into the goods loop, then platform 5 then the depot!

Have you actually seen it ? I haven't seen it run past my office - which backs on to the line at the times suggested.

 

[4141]

Have you actually seen it ? I haven't seen it run past my office - which backs on to the line at the times suggested.

Where does your office back on to for the rest of the time then?

 

[DarloRich]

Have you actually seen it ? I haven't seen it run past my office - which backs on to the line at the times suggested.

quite right - it doesn't seem to have chugged off anywhere today!

 

[A0]

Well, according to RTT something might be moving today 5S08 left Bletchley TMD at 10.16.....

 

[northwichcat]

And breathe!! On to depot just 5 late in the end...… Vivarail tweet - and pictures: https://twitter.com/Vivarail/status/1042122207416201216

According to a post on another forum when inspected at Bletchley a broken part was found.

 

[DarloRich]

Apologies in case I have missed this information much earlier in the thread, but noting that firm orders are now placed for Class 230 units, can someone say what was the month and the year when these units received their full approval to run revenue-earning services on the main lines?

they wont be running in revenue earning service on the Marston Vale line until the next timetable change. In any event it is perfectly normal to place an order for a new train type before all certifications are in place.

 

[Silverlinky]

230003 Interior with floor protection and some seats still in wrappers

 

[Bletchleyite]

That seat fabric is horribly drab (I had hoped they'd go with the LNR deep green), and lime green poles, like on the Class 800, make it look like a 1980s bus.

The layout looks good though, airline/facing for longer journeys, side-facing for shorter ones, and plenty of standing room for the busy school trains.