Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[Peter Mugridge]

Think I would prefer a 142

So would I - and I'm not joking!

 

[jopsuk]

Why did they have to go all the way to Pennsylvania?

The Boris Bus has a 174hp unit that would do pretty much the same thing and is available off-the-shelf in blighty?

if you were picking a road power unit and wanted efficiency, you wouldn't take the unit from the Boris Bus. the tech has moved on quickly!

 

[GatwickDepress]

So would I - and I'm not joking!

It's all part of a scheme to make the north actually long for Pacers.

 

[edwin_m]

Why did they have to go all the way to Pennsylvania?

The Boris Bus has a 174hp unit that would do pretty much the same thing and is available off-the-shelf in blighty?

According to the post you quoted, what comes from Pennsylvania is the loan of the money, not the engines!

 

[anthony263]

That's all Roger Ford said in his e-preview.

I think he was caught a little of gaurd as he has admitted he thought it was a non start at first. Still I will interested at how this all pans out.

LUL/TFL seem to have got a good bit of money for the D Stock units alhough I do hope one driving car is retains for preservation

 

[Nym]

LUL/TFL seem to have got a good bit of money for the D Stock units alhough I do hope one driving car is retains for preservation

It's not what I've herd, but we'll need to wait for the announcement...

Although I strongly suspect that the LTM will retain the 'last cab' as for A Stock at the very minimum.

 

[Brian Aylott]

I think he was caught a little of gaurd as he has admitted he thought it was a non start at first. Still I will interested at how this all pans out.

LUL/TFL seem to have got a good bit of money for the D Stock units alhough I do hope one driving car is retains for preservation

Why do you say that they've got a good bit of money for the units?
Do you know that they got more than the scrap value?
Brian

 

[Wolfie]

Why do you say that they've got a good bit of money for the units?
Do you know that they got more than the scrap value?
Brian

It seems probable that the answer is yes otherwise parts which have commonality with other LU stock would presumably have been stripped prior to the D-stock being dispatched for scrapping. Presumably as they have been sold on for future use such parts recovery will not have taken place.

 

[Nym]

Theres a lot of assumptions there...

The parts that where shared between C Stock and 1972TS where not stripped in great numbers, as there is already a sufficient spares pool (to the point that the LTM Depot already has a D-Stock / 1973TS / 1983TS RPA preserved in the back yard of the depot...), and an overhaul requirement on most parts anyway. Increasing the spares pool wouldn't help that much.

Also the assumption that LUL / TfL would get good money for the units, like I said, wait for the announcements.

 

[pemma]

Roger Ford's article on Vivarail says they have obtained 300 vehicles, which is enough to make 75 trains and their 1 page website says 3 car trains: http://vivarail.co.uk/ That would suggest 75 vehicles would be raided for parts and not be used in the 'new' trains.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Roger Ford's article on Vivarail says they have obtained 300 vehicles, which is enough to make 75 trains and their 1 page website says 3 car trains: http://vivarail.co.uk/ That would suggest 75 vehicles would be raided for parts and not be used in the 'new' trains.

Vivarail's website also says "Too good to be true. We believe so."
I don't know if they mean that literally.

 

[ainsworth74]

Ha! Surely they mean something like "Too good to be true. We don't believe so." Because as it reads right now I'm not sure anyone should invest if even the propose believes it's too good to be true!

 

[pemma]

Parent company of Vivarail is Creactive Design who mention 'Leeds Light Rail' as one of their projects. I wonder which has a better chance of succeeding - Leeds Light Rail or the 278s?

 

[Nym]

Parent company of Vivarail is Creactive Design who mention 'Leeds Light Rail' as one of their projects. I wonder which has a better chance of succeeding - Leeds Light Rail or the 278s?

Hmmm...

All starting to make sense now if the parent company is Creactive...

 

[ac6000cw]

Parent company of Vivarail is Creactive Design who mention 'Leeds Light Rail' as one of their projects.

Where did you find that info from ? (I can't find anything on http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/ about it, or on Google)

 

[eastwestdivide]

Have a look at the Companies House info - they do share at least one director, although I can't find any ownership info directly linking the companies.

 

[pemma]

Where did you find that info from ? (I can't find anything on http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/ about it, or on Google)

The domain Vivarail.co.uk has been registered by Creactive Design. I actually looked too quickly and thought the domain registration address (which is Creactive Design's Warwickshire office) was the same address as on the Vivarail.co.uk which it isn't. The address on Vivarail.co.uk is the registered office of Motorail (UK) limited and some subsidies.

So my revised conclusion is Motorail (UK) own Vivarail and Motorail (UK) are a client of Creactive Design.

 

[ac6000cw]

Have a look at the Companies House info - they do share at least one director, although I can't find any ownership info directly linking the companies.

Yes, I had noticed the shared director (and that Adrian Shooter is also a director), but 'parent company' usually implies at least partial ownership.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So my revised conclusion is Motorail (UK) own Vivarail and Motorail (UK) are a client of Creactive Design.

That sounds much more likely

 

[pemma]

Some illustrations of the proposed trains have appeared:
http://www.vivarail.co.uk/WP/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Northern-Version-2.4.jpg
http://www.vivarail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/D-Stock-3D-view.jpg
http://www.vivarail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/D-Stock-End-car-1024x575.jpg
http://www.vivarail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/D-Stock-Country_Rail_Interior.jpg

It looks like a cross between a London Underground train and a Merseyrail 507/508 with the addition of a Desiro style toilet.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Yes, big update to their website since yesterday, with a lot more detail on their proposals, including only using 2 of the 4 doors per side and sealing up the other 2.

 

[Haydn1971]

I take it back, looks more promising than I first expected. Let's hope they ride / perform as well as the interior visualisations look.

 

[47802]

On the face of it what they are proposing doesn't look too bad at all

 

[ac6000cw]

It does seem to be (all round) a serious proposal.

I doubt people like Adrian Shooter and investors like the Railroad Development Corporation would want to be involved in something that didn't make any sense or was very unlikely to succeed.

 

[physics34]

can't believe this is a real possibility!!!

 

[jamesontheroad]

On the face of it what they are proposing doesn't look too bad at all

As with any rebuild, it's not the face of it I'm worried about

There is a long interview in this week's Rail (#762, 26 November) with Malcolm Brown, CEO of Angel Trains, about what to do next with the Pacers in the north of England. It could be (especially as those mock-ups from Viva Rail show Huddersfield as a destination) that they're keeping a very open mind about what the D-train solution might be.

 

[pemma]

It could be (especially as those mock-ups from Viva Rail show Huddersfield as a destination) that they're keeping a very open mind about what the D-train solution might be.

Apparently they did a computer simulation of how the 'new' trains would perform on the Penistone Line and they found they could match 142 timings, so that might explain why Huddersfield is shown as the destination on the mock-ups.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Whatever other factors may be at play, I think a four-coach train (of pretty much any type) would be a welcome sight on many Northen routes. We might even actually get on.....

And on bogies........the luxury!

 

[pemma]

Whatever other factors may be at play, I think a four-coach train (of pretty much any type) would be a welcome sight on many Northen routes. We might even actually get on.....

They aren't actually proposing 4 car trains. That was the Yorkshire based company who were proposing 278s. (There were 2 different proposals.)

It looks like these would be 230s: http://www.vivarail.co.uk/WP/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Northern-Version-2.4.jpg

In 2 or 3 car formations: http://www.vivarail.co.uk/trains-town-country/

A 2 car 230 joined on to a 3 car 230 would be 91.6m long, which is the same length as a 4 car 156 or 4 car 158 so would fit most platforms.

 

[eastwestdivide]

The New Technology page on their site at http://www.vivarail.co.uk/new-technology-proven-package/
says

D-trains can be supplied as 2-, 3- or 4-car units

although the configuration page only gives examples of 2 and 3 car units.

 

[Bantamzen]

Some illustrations of the proposed trains have appeared:
http://www.vivarail.co.uk/WP/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Northern-Version-2.4.jpg
http://www.vivarail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/D-Stock-3D-view.jpg
http://www.vivarail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/D-Stock-End-car-1024x575.jpg
http://www.vivarail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/D-Stock-Country_Rail_Interior.jpg

It looks like a cross between a London Underground train and a Merseyrail 507/508 with the addition of a Desiro style toilet.

Erm did anyone notice in that final picture the seats facing each other with a door in between? It's just like some of the old slam door stock. That'll be fun in winter, or when it's busy, or if people with suitcases, prams, bikes get on...