Crewe-Shrewsbury line rolling stock before 158s/Sprinters

[PHILIPE]

We used the line regularly in the 1960s-70s, from Liverpool to (inevitably) Taunton. I realise I haven't actually been on it since. The Swindon-built 120 dmus monopolised the Newport-Shrewsbury workings which were not long distance expresses from when they were built, about 1959, right until the Sprinters came along, that included the Central Wales line, for which a few were fitted with special headlights. By the 1980s some of these were turned over to loco haulage, as described above, but not all. The locals on to Crewe were run initially by 108s, there being a longstanding divide at Shrewsbury which only the couple of loco hauled services a day crossed. Very slowly after the LMR 1963 transfer this division was broken down, but it lasted a long time. The Cambrian lines dieselised quite late on, after the LMR takeover, and used various spare dmus, mostly Met-Cam, which however were generally integrated with Wolverhampton services from Shrewsbury, rather than Crewe.

Very first trip was actually with a Castle, the longest loco run on the WR, on the Plymouth-Liverpool day train, a lodging turn for, strangely, a Newton Abbot loco and crew, who took over from a Plymouth loco and worked through to Shrewsbury, where it was loco change to an LMR Black 5 to Crewe, and then another change to an electric for the last lap to Liverpool. Old boundaries died hard. Warship diesels took over and ran for a few years, all the way from Plymouth to Crewe. This was a bit too far for their tank capacity, especially in the winter with the train heating boiler in use, and next trip the Warship failed in the open country between Shrewsbury and Whitchurch, having run out of fuel, so we were eventually propelled forward and then taken on to Crewe by a Shrewsbury Black 5 anyway! After a couple of years Class 47s took over from Bristol TM to Crewe (crews west of Bristol only signed hydraulics for many years), and were long associated with the route for the major expresses, and most of the freight, although the expresses were notably reduced after about 1970, passengers being rerouted via Birmingham.

Us too, we took the car in 1966. Class 47 all the way from Earlestown West Curve to Newton Abbot. What hauled us the first two miles from Newton-le-Willows to the reversal at Earlestown, though? A Warrington Black 5, sent up to get the train marshalled the right way round. Anyone else had the family car steam hauled?

The Plymouth to Liverpool was a lodging turn for Shrewsbury footplate crews as well as Newton Abbot working on alternate days with Shrewsbury and Newton Abbot locos . I can recall the Shrewsbury turn, for which they used their best Castles, being covered on occasions by Halls and Counties if no suitable Castls available. The most used Castles, the pick of the bunch, were 5097 of Shrewsbury and 7000 Viscount Portal from Newton Abbot.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Lovely photo but you can't help think that a 3-car dmu instead of what would likely have been at least 10 compartment coaches including a restaurant car previously hauled by a fine locomotive (steam or diesel), rail travel is not what it used to be.

That was my first ever trip on a 158 and I must say that at the time I was totally impressed, it just seemed a world away from any other DMU, absolutely state of the art although admittedly a little soulless and sterile too. But yes I'm totally in agreement with you regarding locos and stock, things have definitely moved on for sure but we have certainly lost a lot of the finer qualities of rail travel that we used to take for granted.

 

[Harbornite]

The InterCity reroute for all weekday and year round services via Birmingham was about 1970, however a handful of Summer Saturday diagrams remained until the early 1980's.

I thought it was sometime in the late 1960s? I'll have to have a dig through the railway mag archives to confirm.


*Edit*

I did have a look and turns out you were right, the timetable change was reported in the June 1970 edition.

 

[Bevan Price]

Lovely photo but you can't help think that a 3-car dmu instead of what would likely have been at least 10 compartment coaches including a restaurant car previously hauled by a fine locomotive (steam or diesel), rail travel is not what it used to be.

No - in the later years the loco hauled sets were often only 4 or 5 coaches. Longer formations largely disappeared from the line when the Liverpool / Manchester to Bristol / Devon / Cornwall services were rerouted via Birmingham. A single 25 would have struggled to get 10 coaches up Llanfihangel bank...

 

[Harbornite]

Some good shots here of NW route 33 hauled services at Hereford during the early 1980s...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36034969@N08/4504664119/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/14451867767/

And some from the early 90s...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/53055234@N08/32851029921/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/richard_davies_collection/26065284386/

Here are links to two flickr accounts that I recommend for shots of Hereford in the pre-158 era
https://www.flickr.com/photos/railhereford/albums/72157663826006136
https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=53055234@N08&view_all=1&text=hereford

 

[muddythefish]

No - in the later years the loco hauled sets were often only 4 or 5 coaches. Longer formations largely disappeared from the line when the Liverpool / Manchester to Bristol / Devon / Cornwall services were rerouted via Birmingham. A single 25 would have struggled to get 10 coaches up Llanfihangel bank...

I'm talking 1960s ..... when there were proper trains

 

[Harbornite]

I'm talking 1960s ..... when there were proper trains

You've got a point, but the service frequencies in the 60s weren't so good.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

You've got a point, but the service frequencies in the 60s weren't so good.

This is the big point so conveniently forgotten by the nostalgistas. The Marches Line these days has 3 trains in each 2 hour period for the bulk of the day. The service in the "good old days" was typically just a third of that. And while I didn't start serious rail travel until the late 1970s I can remember the key feature of all those loco-hauled services is just how quiet they tended to be for much of the day, whether on a key artery like the WCML or on cross-country routes like Birmingham-Norwich. Times have changed, we all expect more mobility and it's good that our railways are increasingly popular in providing this.

 

[Philip]

In reference to 'the Marches line', I'm assuming this means the line south of Shrewsbury? The Crewe-Shrewsbury line was built separately and was LNWR, whereas the line to Hereford was a joint GWR/LNWR venture. I know lines are grouped into one nowadays but I still think of them as how they were built and through the old railway companies (I'm the same with the canals!).

Regarding my earlier post about seeing a 142; I can say for sure that I did once see one heading north just to the south of Nantwich around '95-96. I don't know if it was in service or ECS though.

 

[RUFJAN15]

I attended school in Shrewsbury between 1969 & 1976 and used to observe daytime traffic on the Marches line. I don't have any useful records, however my recollections regarding passenger operations are as follows:

1969-70: NW/SW services formed of Class 47's hauling Mk1 coaches. I have no recollection of local services during this period.

1970-75: Cardiff-Crewe services were almost exclusively in the hands of the Class 120 Swindon Cross Country DMU's based at Canton, Cardiff. On occasions in summer Cardiff would strengthen the diagrammed single Class 120 by tagging on a Class 116 Derby suburban unit.

1975-76: My memory may be playing tricks here, but I'm pretty certain that the Swindon Class 123 Inter City DMU's were introduced to the service in 1975 (having been made redundant in the London area). Railcar.co.uk mentions their transfer to Cardiff, although doesn't give a date, and that they were stored by the WR in 1977. All sets were reduced to three cars for this work (5 had buffet cars, which were taken out before they left London, the remaining 5 had a TS taken out by Cardiff).
Canton clearly struggled with the 123's and by late 1975 they were being regularly substituted by 'scratch' loco hauled sets using Canton Class 37's. Of particular note was that Canton pressed the 5 'spare' Class 123 TS's (W59235 - W59239) into service in these sets. I can clearly recall jumping down to the ballast from one of these coaches at Yorton in the winter of 1975/76 after the driver of the 37 overshot the tiny platform (one of the early evening trains from Shrewsbury covered the local stations to Crewe at that time).

1976- : Soon after I finished school, in late 1976 or early 1977, the 'scratch' sets were replaced with a proper allocation of 25's and Mk1's. I guess that Cardiff received an allocation of 25's for this and that their crews were trained on the class. Subsequently the 25's were replaced by 33's before Sprinters took over.


My knowledge of the Shrewsbury - Crewe locals is limited to 1974-76 when I had a season ticket from Yorton to Shrewsbury. Most trains were covered by the Cambrian Coast fleet of 2 car Class 101 Metro Cammel's and Class 103 Park Royal's (allocated to Chester), however the first Shrewsbury-Crewe in the morning and it's return working (arriving Shrewsbury around 08.20) was normally formed of a 3 car set from the Wolverhampton line. This could be either a 101 or a 119 Gloucester cross country unit.

I hope this prompts others to confirm/correct my memories. In particular, it would be interesting to know the story behind the arrival and rapid disappearance of the 123's (before their transfer to the ER in 1977) and what happened to the 120's they displaced.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

A trawl of the various "archive" sites suggests RUFJAN15's recollections are pretty accurate. Formal takeover of Marches services by 25s happened in November 1976 though they had been making sporadic appearances for several months before that. As for the DMUs the 120s went to Chester from where they continued to find their way onto Central Wales Line workings while the 123s were initially stored at Barry before being sent to Hull where they were reformed into hybrid sets with the class 124 Trans-Pennine units (the originals) and they infested the Hope Valley Line until 1984. My experience of the 123/124 hybrids was that they were simply worn out suggesting the Western Region did well to get rid of them! In fact they had been delivered new to the WR for services from Cardiff before later working Paddington-Oxford/Newbury services. Doubtless their brief stint on the Marches was an attempt to get some use out of them even though clearly past their best.

 

[30907]

Lovely photo but you can't help think that a 3-car dmu instead of what would likely have been at least 10 compartment coaches including a restaurant car previously hauled by a fine locomotive (steam or diesel), rail travel is not what it used to be.

But that would have been 20+ years earlier. And the next one several hours later.
Apologies - for some reason I missed all the earlier comments making the same point much better.

 

[6Gman]

1975-76: My memory may be playing tricks here, but I'm pretty certain that the Swindon Class 123 Inter City DMU's were introduced to the service in 1975 (having been made redundant in the London area). Railcar.co.uk mentions their transfer to Cardiff, although doesn't give a date, and that they were stored by the WR in 1977. All sets were reduced to three cars for this work (5 had buffet cars, which were taken out before they left London, the remaining 5 had a TS taken out by Cardiff).
Canton clearly struggled with the 123's and by late 1975 they were being regularly substituted by 'scratch' loco hauled sets using Canton Class 37's. Of particular note was that Canton pressed the 5 'spare' Class 123 TS's (W59235 - W59239) into service in these sets. I can clearly recall jumping down to the ballast from one of these coaches at Yorton in the winter of 1975/76 after the driver of the 37 overshot the tiny platform (one of the early evening trains from Shrewsbury covered the local stations to Crewe at that time).

I have a clear recollection of those DMU trailers being formed inside sets of conventional loco-hauled stock. I also have a recollection of Class 46s being used on a semi-regular basis.

 

[Taunton]

The Plymouth to Liverpool was a lodging turn for Shrewsbury footplate crews as well as Newton Abbot working on alternate days with Shrewsbury and Newton Abbot locos . I can recall the Shrewsbury turn, for which they used their best Castles, being covered on occasions by Halls and Counties if no suitable Castls available. The most used Castles, the pick of the bunch, were 5097 of Shrewsbury and 7000 Viscount Portal from Newton Abbot.

That was indeed standard on the WR's lodging turns, out from each end on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, back home on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. Sundays were generally a different timetable without so much lodging.

Britannias, designed by Riddles, were assigned to the Cornish Riviera Express for a short while when they first came to the WR in the early 1950s. Disliked at Old Oak Common, but utterly despised by Laira crews who had to put up with their nonsenses on the South Devon banks every trip. Now in those days business offices still worked on Saturday mornings, maybe not quite as intensively as the rest of the week, and so over at 222 Marylebone Road Riddles might decide, with a couple of his acolytes, to saunter (well, probably get a cab) over to Paddington to see the departure of "his" express loco on the Rivvy. With Laira men. You know what's coming, don't you. Whoever was WR General Manager at the time insisted, possibly after an incident, that an inspector be on the platform by the loco every Saturday, to stand strategically between "Mr Riddles, Sir" and any Laira driver inclined to speak the truth if questioned.

The men felt this all keenly. Hawksworth would have been up on the footplate and deep in conversation. Collett was always a bit remote. And Churchward would likely have suddenly told the inspector to jump on as the two of them were going on the loco to Plymouth.

Sorry. Back to Shrewsbury to Crewe. I can't believe 89A ever put a Hall on it. Incidentally, I vaguely recall 7000 coming through Taunton, being almost the most polished of all. The best however was whatever Laira assigned to an Up Ocean Liner Express with the (equally immaculate) old Special Saloons.

Railcar.co.uk mentions their [Class 123] transfer to Cardiff, although doesn't give a date

I'll just add that these Swindon-built 'Inter City' units were also allocated to Cardiff when brand new in 1962-3, and a full 8-car set, with working buffet, was assigned to the daily Cardiff-Plymouth and return service. Used to see it growling (and it did) westbound out of Taunton late morning. Not the most appropriate stock for such a service. After a year or so Westerns took the run over.

 

[daikilo]

Taunton,

Either you are older than me or have a much better memory of those days.

We have exchanged such re Liverpool Central underground.

I had no idea Canton had 123s in the 1963 period. I first met them when they arrived on the Transpenines. If they growled out of Taunton and probably struggled over the Devon banks, no wonder I preferred the 124s on my Transpenine work journeys.

 

[Bevan Price]

GWR Hall, Granges & Manors all worked as far north as Crewe, but almost entirely on freight; the GWR had a small steam sub-shed at Crewe Grestly Lane.

One of my early rides from Hereford to Shrewsbury was with a King, on a Cardiff (or Swansea) summer saturday service to Manchester. The King was removed at Shrewsbury - and was a rarity there, as Kings did not normally work north of Wolverhampton on Paddington services,

I believe this King working on the Marches line lasted only for a summer or two, after they were replaced by Warships on main line expresses, until they were again displaced by more diesels.

In the steam era, Pontypool Road was sometimes used as a location for loco changes. Hard to believe now, when you look at the unstaffed "Pontypool" station, but Pontypool Road was once a largish junction station with a nearby motive power depot. Other loco changes took place at Hereford or Shrewsbury.

 

[Taunton]

I recall on the line passing Pontypool Road in what must have been 1965 on the Taunton-Liverpool day service, and a very disreputable and rusty 9F was dumped on the east side of the line, maybe even with the rods taken off.

It was 92220 Evening Star, just 5 years old, onetime Swindon's pride.

I understood that the WR Crewe Gresty Lane subshed was mainly to handle services on the (Crewe)-Nantwich-Wellington line, which was ex-GWR whereas the Shrewsbury line was ex-LMS. Gresty Lane shed was sub to Wellington, not Shrewsbury. This was an odd country line that was nevertheless double track throughout, and handled a surprising amount of through freight traffic. It was a GWR "Red" main line. The shed principally handled visiting locos from WR West Midlands depots.

 

[Philip]

Just to bring the focus specifically to the Crewe-Shrewsbury line, (the Marches line starts at Shrewsbury, not Crewe) did the line also carry expresses and long distance trains for the Cambrian and also towards Wolverhampton and Stafford via Gnosall?

 

[Ash Bridge]

I can remember being taken to Crewe for the first time during the summer of 1969, when we arrived the chap who took me advised that amongst other things we should see a WR Warship during the afternoon if we are lucky. I thought he was having me on until sometime mid afternoon the bulbous yellow end of D851 Temeraire hove into view on the front of a rake of parcel vans, I assume this had worked up via Hereford and Shrewsbury, if so where would it have originated from?

 

[jwbuchanan]

Unidentified 33/0 at Shrewsbury, Feb '83




33 210 departing Crewe 28/06/86

 

[30907]

Just to bring the focus specifically to the Crewe-Shrewsbury line, (the Marches line starts at Shrewsbury, not Crewe) did the line also carry expresses and long distance trains for the Cambrian and also towards Wolverhampton and Stafford via Gnosall?

Manchester to Cambrian services would have been routed Whitchurch-Oswestry-Welshpool. Apart from the York mails I think they disappeared with the line's closure.
Not sure about Stafford--Shrewsbury but Wellington-Crewe had odd expresses - at least the Pines for a couple of years after it was rerouted via Oxford.

 

[Taunton]

Ah yes, I had forgotten about The Pines going that way when the WR first diverted it. What power was used through Nantwich to Crewe? Was it a Castle all the way from Oxford?

If I further recall, after just a few months when the LMR took over the WR in the West Midlands, it was diverted again back via Stafford and then the otherwise non-passenger Bushbury Spur north of Wolverhampton to get back to the ex-GW line to Snow Hill and Oxford.

 

[6Gman]

I can remember being taken to Crewe for the first time during the summer of 1969, when we arrived the chap who took me advised that amongst other things we should see a WR Warship during the afternoon if we are lucky. I thought he was having me on until sometime mid afternoon the bulbous yellow end of D851 Temeraire hove into view on the front of a rake of parcel vans, I assume this had worked up via Hereford and Shrewsbury, if so where would it have originated from?

I think there was a Bristol - Crewe vans train in the 1970s. If my memory is accurate by then it offered nothing more exciting than a 47.

 

[6Gman]

In the steam era, Pontypool Road was sometimes used as a location for loco changes. Hard to believe now, when you look at the unstaffed "Pontypool" station, but Pontypool Road was once a largish junction station with a nearby motive power depot. Other loco changes took place at Hereford or Shrewsbury.

Pontypool Road was also, I believe, the boundary of free travel for LNWR/LMS staff going south (unless they were heading for the Valleys served by the LNW). My late mother used to tell me of trips to Devon with her father where they would need to rebook at Pontypool Road.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I think there was a Bristol - Crewe vans train in the 1970s. If my memory is accurate by then it offered nothing more exciting than a 47.

Ah thanks for that, seems that I was fortunate to witness it when I did then.

 

[Harbornite]

Not sure about Stafford--Shrewsbury but Wellington-Crewe had odd expresses - at least the Pines for a couple of years after it was rerouted via Oxford.

Funnily enough, I only found out about this today whilst reading issues of the railway mag from June-August 1962. I had been aware of the Pines being diverted via Oxford etc but not via Market Drayton.

 

[muddythefish]

You've got a point, but the service frequencies in the 60s weren't so good.

One 3-car unit every hour or a 10-coach train with all facilities and services every 3 hours - I know which I prefer.

 

[Harbornite]

One 3-car unit every hour or a 10-coach train with all facilities and services every 3 hours - I know which I prefer.

It's not every hour though, is it. There's more than that for much of the day.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...18/03/05/0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[daikilo]

It's not every hour though, is it. There's more than that for much of the day.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...18/03/05/0600-2000?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

I think your statement is probbly right but the search at Hereford is not. I don't know RTT searches but I guess that one at say Wem would give the right answer.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Manchester to Cambrian services would have been routed Whitchurch-Oswestry-Welshpool. Apart from the York mails I think they disappeared with the line's closure.
Not sure about Stafford--Shrewsbury but Wellington-Crewe had odd expresses - at least the Pines for a couple of years after it was rerouted via Oxford.

Good shot of York Mail in 74 on SARPA's website

http://www.sarpa.info/archive.html