Crewe versus Stoke - who will win?

[Emyr]

Where exactly is the site that you propose above. Can you be more explicit as to its exact location and if there will be much in the way of difficult infrastructural works involved ? In that case, what do propose will happen to the existing Gatley station on the Styal line ?

Are you aware of the Baguley station location to which I alluded in my earlier posting and its proximity to the Manchester Metrolink Airport extension line ?

There is a derelict mansion at the south-east of the M60/A34 crossing. I would have put the station complex and parking on that site, such that the ticket office and main entrance would be as close as possible to the point where the lines cross, so there's minimal horizontal distance between the platforms on each line.

I think I need to invest in some OS maps.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That "derelict mansion" you refer to was actually the former Barnes Hospital. The trackwork which you make reference to in this area is only single track and the line passes under the existing A34 and the Styal line, which in itself crosses over the River Mersey and the M60 motorway. To raise the connectional height, there would be some interesting infrastructural problems to solve, notwithstanding the number of well-priced properties in the Gatley area to be considered which most certainly would need some to be demolished.

 

[po8crg]

Greengauge 21 have a proposal that they claim can serve both Crewe and Stoke.

Basically, they propose an hourly classic-compatible service running Manchester - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke - Stafford (on classic) - Birmingham Interchange - OOC - Euston (on HS2)

It would also relieve the need for Stafford to be served by a Liverpool train, allowing both Liverpool trains to take the direct route via Crewe and Runcorn, speeding that service.

 

[WatcherZero]

Would mean Stoke still required 200m long platforms, how long are they at the moment? One of those lines which used to be a main line so has quite long platforms if I remember right.

 

[edwin_m]

Would mean Stoke still required 200m long platforms, how long are they at the moment? One of those lines which used to be a main line so has quite long platforms if I remember right.

I think most people would consider the line through Stoke to be a main line - it has two Pendolinos an hour which are longer than 200m even in the 9-car variant, plus various Voyagers and other stuff.

 

[Altnabreac]

Greengauge 21 have a proposal that they claim can serve both Crewe and Stoke.

Basically, they propose an hourly classic-compatible service running Manchester - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke - Stafford (on classic) - Birmingham Interchange - OOC - Euston (on HS2)

It would also relieve the need for Stafford to be served by a Liverpool train, allowing both Liverpool trains to take the direct route via Crewe and Runcorn, speeding that service.

Looks very similar to the service I proposed earlier in this thread

Again it confirms what Stoke Council need to concentrate on is lobbying for the Lichfield chord not to be dropped from the HS2 plans instead of proposing Pie in the Sky nonsense.

 

[pablo]

One of the advantages of Colwich Junction is that it takes traffic off the mainline before the double track Shugborough tunnel. Closing the Colwich-Stone section might save the cost of the Colwich flyover scheme, or probably not - too late?, but could well bring forward a need to duplicate Shugborough tunnel and add traffic through Stafford. No win there.

 

[The Planner]

Colwich isnt going to get a flyover as part of HS2. The idea of closing Stone to Colwich is ridiculous. The cost of doing that alone would probably pay for its upkeep for years. File under "we got paid lots to produce a report"

 

[WatcherZero]

According to tommorows Independent Crewe has now officially been chosen by Higgins over Stoke and the formal public announcement will be made next month.

Thank god sanity has prevailed.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

According to tommorows Independent Crewe has now officially been chosen by Higgins over Stoke and the formal public announcement will be made next month.

Thank god sanity has prevailed.

Cue a proposal from the 'leadership' at Stoke Council to build their own competing HS line running from Stoke to London, non-stop, to be funding by future revenue from all the new business and residents attracted as a result of the new line.

The question is, has Higgins chosen a convenient location (the current station) or one out in the wilderness poorly served except by road?

 

[The Planner]

It will be Basford Hall.

 

[Emyr]

It will be Basford Hall.

The Basford Hall that's nearer Leek than either Stoke or Crewe?

 

[WatcherZero]

Think he means Basford the village just south of Crewe, not Basford Hall which is well on the other side of Stoke.

 

[pablo]

Oh deary me...
http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=371500&Y=352500&A=Y&Z=120

 

[WatcherZero]

Unfortunately more famous neighbour

https://plus.google.com/11097793093...hl=en#110977930936911274943/about?gl=uk&hl=en

The area is called Basford, The freightliner depot is called Basford Hall but unfortunately the names of companies arent national landmarks.

'Basford Hall' was destroyed by fire in 1700 and the sidings took over most of the former grounds.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Nottingham MP is saying shes heard rumours that route and consequently East Midlands parkway station at Toton has been moved to avoid villages.

 

[dysonsphere]

Well Stoke keeps trying another version of HS2, not sure they intend to do it theres little space in that area with the D road, canal and local building.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-29619287

The pretty picture would involve a complete rebuild of the station area.

 

[WatcherZero]

Theyve left it too late for this second push, but then this campaign has been nothing but late. Theyre now downplaying the billions of phantom savings claim and just saying its £200m better economically than Crewe because of University links, they say Stoke will grow by £166m if HS2 is built in stoke whereas as Crewe will shrink the regional economy by £40m if built there.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Why not reroute it via Alsager and have a Crewe and Stoke Parkway station half way between both

 

[The Planner]

You have effectively 6 routes at Crewe which you can automatically connect to, Alsager has nothing.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Well Stoke keeps trying another version of HS2, not sure they intend to do it theres little space in that area with the D road, canal and local building.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-29619287

The pretty picture would involve a complete rebuild of the station area.

The graphic in the BBC item is showing the station north of the present Stoke Station, roughly on the site of the former Etruria Station, where the council happens to own a plot of land which it bought for regeneration purposes, using Euro money, but for which development proposals have not materialised.

Previously it was shown a bit further north still in an area called Etruria Valley.

Despite the fanciful claims of the council, neither site is IN THE CITY CENTRE. Indeed they are further away and worse connected to Hanley than the present station.

If you want to Google it, the station site would extend from Shelton New Road in the south to Etruria Road in the north.

The current station is above the 'S' in the credit for the graphic and heading north west.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The graphic in the BBC item is showing the station north of the present Stoke Station, roughly on the site of the former Etruria Station, where the council happens to own a plot of land which it bought for regeneration purposes, using Euro money, but for which development proposals have not materialised.

Would the land that is stated to have been bought with "Euro" money have had any specific employment proviso attached to the said finance that would preclude that land being used for the site of a railway station?

 

[WatcherZero]

Was at Keele so know the area, yes Etruria is like a wasteland between Stoke and Hanley. However it would have been centrally placed and with the option for good bus links. Dont approve of their bid but I dont think Etruria is a bad choice of station location, better than other cities HS2 station locations. It would be like Warrington Bank Quay, on the extreme edge Hanley city centre.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Why not reroute it via Alsager and have a Crewe and Stoke Parkway station half way between both

That was the only alternative that the engineering consultants came up with and it was rejected because it benefited neither Crewe nor Stoke.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Would the land that is stated to have been bought with "Euro" money have had any specific employment proviso attached to the said finance that would preclude that land being used for the site of a railway station?

Don't have the exact details, but, if memory serves, the Caradon Bathrooms site was bought on the back of the scheme to relocate an engineering firm from Hanley to Cliffe Vale. As is usually the case with regeneration in Stoke, only one aspect of the scheme came off - namely the relocation of the engineering firm. The site vacated remains undeveloped and vacant, the land bought remains undeveloped and derelict, several glossy proposals have come and gone. At one time the council proposed a combined waste facility on the land - composting, recycling and such like. They can't even get schemes entirely under their own control off the ground!

There were rumours regarding the legitimacy of the overall arrangements, obviously now resolved satisfactorily.

Thus is the reason grandiose glossy proposals, such as those for HS2 for Stoke, should be treated with a certain amount of scepticism. Prepared by external consultants with no connection to the city on behalf of senior council staff with equally little interest in the long term future of the city, for councillors who struggle to understand complex issues.

Cynical - certainly.
Bitter - possibly.
Accurate - who knows.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It will be of interest to see what the report due out on Monday, 27th October has to say on the matter of the station site and location.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

That was the only alternative that the engineering consultants came up with and it was rejected because it benefited neither Crewe nor Stoke.

What about Newcastle under Lyme then? So one of the largest towns without a station can have one.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

David Higgins will update his HS2/HS3 plans on Monday 27 October, seemingly confirming the Crewe option.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29768921

 

[HowardGWR]

David Higgins will update his HS2/HS3 plans on Monday 27 October, seemingly confirming the Crewe option.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29768921

Yes but The Telegraph is 'confused'.
"Sir David Higgins, the chief executive of the £50 billion project, is due to publish his analysis of the line north of Birmingham on Monday - and it is likely to go via a new hub in Stoke, rather than Crewe."

and then underneath:
"Northern business leaders have accused the Government of a “fatal flaw” in their plans for the HS2 rail line, amid reports it is to be routed via Crewe and not Stoke.
Sir David Higgins, the chief executive of the £50 billion project, is due to publish his analysis of the line north of Birmingham on Monday, but officials in Stoke claim he has already informed them their bid to be included in the route will be rejected."

Oh dear!:cry:

 

[WatcherZero]

Yeah saw that.

 

[AM9]

What about Newcastle under Lyme then? So one of the largest towns without a station can have one.

The road route from Newcastle Under Lyme High Street to Stoke On Trent Station is 2.7 or 3.0 miles. That distance is less than between housing areas and stations in many towns in England. Just because it has a different council, it doesn't need its own station. I'm sure that Newcastle travellers are allowed to use Stoke station.