Cricket

[Greenback]

It was what I expected after the first couple of matches. I'm sorry to say that England don't deserve to qualify.

 

[Busaholic]

For the sake of my blood pressure, I won't be watching/reading about England team and management excuses for another 24 hours. Anyone having a punt on Afghanistan v England? Must be short odds now though.

 

[Oswyntail]

And yet again.....

• Before the tournament all the "experts" said England had no hope (Correctly, but for the wrong reason, as they concentrated on the batting rather than the bowling).
• The England management then agreed (rightly, because they know the bowling is too weak). The pundits said they were wrong.
• Performances were much as the management had said. The experts said it was because they had played the wrong batsmen.
• So England pick the batsmen the experts demanded, and lose. The experts say it is pathetic.

Basically, England did much as predicted, hampered by a weak attack. Everyone else in the world has an opinion on England, and why they are so much worse than their team (even the Scots, for heavens sake). Fair game, really. But it would be nice to have some better bowlers - and pundits!

 

[DownSouth]

The four teams going through (Australia, Bangladesh, New Zealand, Sri Lanka) and the three teams getting eliminated (Afghanistan, England, Scotland) from Pool A are now confirmed, but the order is not confirmed. New Zealand will finish top of Pool A while the next three are yet to fall into place. The three eliminated Pool A teams can also finish in any order, the only thing stopping the Afghanistan-England match from being a playoff for 5th-6th is if Scotland win both of their remaining matches against Sri Lanka and Australia.

There are still theoretically four teams in contention for an early flight home in Pool B, with South Africa, Pakistan and Ireland all on three wins, and the Windies on two.

• The Windies need to win against the UAE to get through, and hope that Ireland lose both their matches (India and Pakistan) or have a huge win over Pakistan to get them through on net run rate.
• If Ireland win or tie one of those matches they will advance, but if they lose both they will only go through if the Windies lose to the UAE.
• Pakistan can drop out if they lose to Ireland, the Windies beat the UAE and the combined margin of those two matches - coincidentally on the same day - is enough to get their NRR lower than that of the Windies. The exact margin of the loss to Ireland which will be 'acceptable' to get them through on NRR will only be known at the conclusion of the UAE-WI match on the same day, about halfway through the Ireland-Pakistan match.
• South Africa is virtually assured of going through, but a freakishly massive loss to the UAE and a freakishly massive win to the West Indies could theoretically see them drop out in the same way that Pakistan could.

Of those four teams, it is most likely that Ireland will drop out if every result goes as expected.

It's still possible, but quite unlikely, that India may not finish on top of Pool B despite currently being a game clear. Any one of the current top four teams could still finish on top if India lose both of their matches.

For the sake of my blood pressure, I won't be watching/reading about England team and management excuses for another 24 hours. Anyone having a punt on Afghanistan v England? Must be short odds now though.

In the interview on the ground after the match, Morgan blamed the short boundaries for tonight's loss (which aren't short, and certainly did not get any longer after the innings break), poor batting (led by who?), some players not performing (but didn't say who would be top of that list) and efforts to improve being unsuccessful for reasons he does not know. A pretty poor performance for the tournament's top seeded team!

I expect that England's performance in the final match will be hampered by every player other than Ali, Anderson, Buttler and Taylor (EDIT: he got out for 1 tonight, his place is not secure) playing for themselves instead of for the team, while Afghanistan will be at the top of their game.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Buttler did score 65 from 52 balls (1 x 6 / 6 x 4). Why do England persist in keeping him so low down the order?

Rubel Hussein will be delighted with his bowling return of 9.3-0-53-4

 

[ainsworth74]

Buttler did score 65 from 52 balls (1 x 6 / 6 x 4). Why do England persist in keeping him so low down the order?

The idea is, I believe, that he's supposed to come in as an innings finisher. Go out and smash fifty in a very short period of time to either power the side to victory in a chase or to an imposing total when defending.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The idea is, I believe, that he's supposed to come in as an innings finisher. Go out and smash fifty in a very short period of time to either power the side to victory in a chase or to an imposing total when defending.

Look at some of the more prolific wicketkeeper-batsmen who really developed at Test Match level when placed higher up the batting order. Buttler is better than many give him credit for and deserves to be viewed as a high-quality batsman in his own right.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

It was what I expected after the first couple of matches. I'm sorry to say that England don't deserve to qualify.

Yes, I agree. It was painful watching the England innings. Pretty shots from Bell for singles (or straight to fielders) and in the end too much for Buttler and Woakes to do, can't blame them. The better teams in the tournament (ie all the others) would have achieved the target in about 40 overs , England looked and played as if they were aiming to achieve it in 49.5! I'm not going to blame the players, but the muddled-headed system that has been in place for the last few years. Peter Moores is, I am sure, a decent sort of guy, but really, should he have been given another go at the job, having failed once?....and as for the likes of Giles Clarke and David Collier, the sooner these sort of people are removed from overseeing English cricket, the better...but of course they won't be, as they come from the 'right' sort of family!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Peter Moores is, I am sure, a decent sort of guy, but really, should he have been given another go at the job, having failed once

I am sure that he would have happier had he stayed with Lancashire.

 

[Busaholic]

Buttler and Woakes (the latter the new Bopara) were going along nicely, scoring the average nine runs an over required to overhaul Bangladesh. The trouble with either getting out, particularly Buttler, was that you'd get someone like Broad come in, club a six amongst the swings and misses, then get bowled going for another maximum. How that guy was ever thought intelligent enough to captain England escapes me.

Pinning the blame solely on the bowlers though for the mediocre performances is all wrong. England never scored enough batting first: Morgan still persists in saying that they got par plus 25 against Sri Lanka when they were overtaken with overs to spare!
Hales can't be blamed, he did better in his one innings than Ballance in the previous four, but Ali and Root were the only ones who emerged with kudos from the tournament. Bell and Taylor were in the wrong positions. If this was The Apprentice Morgan, as team captain and player, wouldn't even be worth discussing to remain, but if he had to choose two to go with him, I can't believe it wouldn't be Anderson and Broad, surely neither ever likely to play in a one day international again.

Now Morgan can go and sit on the subs bench again at whatever IPL team is daft enough to employ him, and good riddance.

 

[ExRes]

I am sure that he would have happier had he stayed with Lancashire.

Absolutely agree, when Moores was Sussex coach you couldn't wish to see a happier and more relaxed man, he had a settled group of players around him who played for each other and I'm sure he had the same at Lancashire, some chance of that happening at international level
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Hales can't be blamed, he did better in his one innings than Ballance in the previous four, but Ali and Root were the only ones who emerged with kudos from the tournament. Bell and Taylor were in the wrong positions. If this was The Apprentice Morgan, as team captain and player, wouldn't even be worth discussing to remain, but if he had to choose two to go with him, I can't believe it wouldn't be Anderson and Broad, surely neither ever likely to play in a one day international again.

Now Morgan can go and sit on the subs bench again at whatever IPL team is daft enough to employ him, and good riddance.

I do feel for Ballance though, he is not a number 3 in one day cricket which was pointed out in the media by the likes of Sir Geoffrey, it says a lot about the England set up that they choose to ignore the facts and use Ballance as a fall guy

Morgan should buy himself a house in India and stay there, belay that, he should have bought himself a house in India before the WC and stayed there

 

[Busaholic]

Absolutely agree, when Moores was Sussex coach you couldn't wish to see a happier and more relaxed man, he had a settled group of players around him who played for each other and I'm sure he had the same at Lancashire, some chance of that happening at international level
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I do feel for Ballance though, he is not a number 3 in one day cricket which was pointed out in the media by the likes of Sir Geoffrey, it says a lot about the England set up that they choose to ignore the facts and use Ballance as a fall guy

Morgan should buy himself a house in India and stay there, belay that, he should have bought himself a house in India before the WC and stayed there

The old Peter Principle is apposite in Moores's case: promoted one last time to a post beyond his capabilities.
Ballance was never a no3 in onedayers for Yorks so why....? Oh, the old canard 'if you're a top test cricketer you should be the same in onedayers' that I've never heard uttered by any sensible commentator. How many matches did Michael Bevan win for Australia but he could hardly score a run in test cricket because of his weakness against high class fast bowling and the short-pitched ball.

 

[muddythefish]

Wrong players in the wrong order with the wrong captain led by the wrong manager.

What could go right ?

 

[Phirstman]

It's over, Bangladesh have knocked England out of the World Cup for the second time in a row!

Given that you've posted this three times, I must point out this is factually incorrect. In 2011 we were beaten in the group stage by Bangladesh but still qualified for the Quarter Finals - where we were trounced by Sri Lanka. Can I respectfully ask that you check your 'facts' before posting please as these inaccuracies are rather tedious to read through.
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A pretty poor performance for the tournament's top seeded team!

Again not sure where this information came from - we're not #1 ranked in ODI Cricket nor were we favourites to win the tournament - so how an earth were we the top seeds in your view?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Wrong players in the wrong order with the wrong captain led by the wrong manager.

What could go right ?

It would have been better, noting what you say above, to have had the England team to travel to the wrong continent, where at least they would have saved themselves from all this embarrassment....

 

[flymo]

Anyone having a punt on Afghanistan v England? Must be short odds now though.

William Hill are currently offering 11/2 for Afghanistan to win whilst England are astonishingly 1/9. I think this might be worth a tenner on the Afghans....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No surprises then in the India v Ireland match, with India winning with plenty of overs to spare.

 

[Howardh]

This sounds barmy, but it's logical.
Had England been chasing 320, they would have won, maybe easily. Why? Because the batsmen would go in knowing their only option was to clear the ropes. Couple of singles to get in then the ball has to go. No worries, no second chances.
But 275 off 50 against an ordinary attack (even more ordinary than ours) they - Buttler aside - hadn't a clue how to approach the run chase. Steady, keep wickets, slog at the end? Go for it from the start and risk losing wickets?? They hadn't a clue.
The hesitancy must have been caused by it being a *must win* against *lesser* opponents when they have been thumped three times. I soley blame the management who determine the tactics.

 

[Greenback]

It's not just the tactics. It's also the mindset of the team, and the batsmen who ar eout in the middle.

We have this debate almost every day about rugby union in Wales. When we kick the ball away aimlessly is it the tactics imposed by the management, or the lack or intelligent decision making and execution from the players?

In my view it's both, but mainly it's down to those out on the pitch both to decide what to do, and then to do it accurately.

I;m not saying the ECB or management are blameless, mind you. They are clearly responsible for strategy, team selection, morale and coaching away from the match. I can't believe that Peter Moores is still there, but he and the rest of the suits aren't responsible for what goes through any player's head when he has a bat in his hand in a tense situation.

I do think you're right that a higher target might have focused their minds a bit more than 276 managed to!

 

[Cletus]

Noticed James Treadwell is playing today. It's his 1st competitive game all winter I think.

Another of England's mistakes not playing a frontline spinner.

 

[Johnuk123]

England beat Afghanistan by 9 wickets in rain affected match.

Nobody cares.

 

[ainsworth74]

Nobody cares.

Brilliant

 

[Busaholic]

It's time to take stock of England's World Cup and focus on the positives:-











. .

 

[Greenback]

I'm delighted to see that Captain Morgan has no regrets. Though I would if I were in his shoes.

 

[Busaholic]

I'm delighted to see that Captain Morgan has no regrets. Though I would if I were in his shoes.

Which only proves he was utterly unsuitable to be given the job in the first place, like putting a mercenary in charge of the British Army. Now he's off to the riches of the IPL, and he may even get to play a few matches if Pietersen really does go looking for a county to play for in preference to taking up his IPL contract. Each run Morgan scores will have cost his sponsors several thousand pounds by the end, maybe £10,000 each. Some people seem to have more money than sense.

Counties that might play along with Pietersen's ambition to get back in the England team? Hampshire, Surrey and Glamorgan: ones that wouldn't touch him with a bargepole = Notts, Warwicks and Middlesex. I guess Essex could probably be added to the latter in view of being Cook's county'
.

 

[Greenback]

I think his remarks certainly show him as being totally unsuitable to continuing in the role. I agree, though, that he shouldn't have been given the job in the first place!

If I were in his shoes, I'd be looking at myself and every decision I was involve din, and wonder if thing shad been done even a tiny bit differently the results would have been better. I've been a team captain in several sports down the years, albeit at a very low level, and I've always had cause to regret things, even when the team has done well.

I'd expect a professional to reflect a lot more on what happened than he appears to be, but I'm impressed with his resilience and reluctance to merely utter pre approved sanitised sound bites, if nothing else. If he truly thinks that there is nothing wrong and that everything the management and the team did could not have been improved in some way, then he definitely isnl;t captain material in my book. 'Never mind lads, we weren't in form, that's all it was' never really worked for me, although sometimes you can't get away from the fact that the other side was simply better in all departments.

 

[Oswyntail]

I think his remarks certainly show him as being totally unsuitable to continuing in the role. ..

We should remember they are public remarks, and I very much doubt he is a blase as he seems. His task now is to pick up the pieces, and work out which ones are still usable, from the captain's point of view. If, for instance, he slated an individual's attitude in public, this opens the question why that individual was picked in the first place, and denies him the chance to try to change things.

 

[Greenback]

There are far better remarks that he could have chosen. I don't know why he feels the need to show defiance, nor do I really care much about what might be going on behind the scenes at the moment, but a bit of humility and reflection would have been far more appropriate in my opinion.

It's not as if he's up for re-election in a public vote, though!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm delighted to see that Captain Morgan has no regrets. Though I would if I were in his shoes.

Let us draw an oblique comparison, noting that you hold a revered position on this website.

If he was a member of this website, would he now be shown as being "On Moderation"...or worse..:roll:
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I think his remarks certainly show him as being totally unsuitable to continuing in the role. I agree, though, that he shouldn't have been given the job in the first place!

Does the holding of the England captaincy suddenly make the occupant of that position lose all sense of reality. First Cook, now Morgan..

 

[ainsworth74]

If he was a member of this website, would he now be shown as being "On Moderation"...or worse.

He would be infracted for bringing the forum into disrepute...