-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
CrossCountry Capacity
- Thread starter crj96
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Because that is the stock they have available.
The company is not in a position to lease additional stock without the DfT agreeing on how it would be paid for. But people are welcome to make suggestions for how this could be improved and indeed many have done so; here are some threads which you may find interest:
The company is not in a position to lease additional stock without the DfT agreeing on how it would be paid for. But people are welcome to make suggestions for how this could be improved and indeed many have done so; here are some threads which you may find interest:
- https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/route-and-rolling-stock-changes-which-could-fix-crosscountrys-problems
- https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/crosscountry-voyagers-future-replacement
- https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/suggestions-on-how-to-improve-crosscountry
- https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/loco-hauled-for-crosscountry
- https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/crosscountry-franchise-is-unnecessary-and-should-not-be-renewed
Last edited:
ValentaFan1974
Member
- Joined
- 8 Jul 2014
- Messages
- 225
The problem XC has is that passenger numbers on their routes since they got the franchise in 2007 has nearly trebled, however they have the same amount of rolling stock.
Every available train is in service every day, and when issues happen, like the fire in Doncaster yesterday, it makes the situation worse.
With the DfT extending the franchise until October 2020 it means there isn’t anything that will change soon, as Arriva/DB most likely won’t sign off on any new rolling stock agreements or training for the drivers/TM’s etc if they won’t have the franchise long enough for a return on investment.
The only saving grace is that a swathe of 221 Voyagers should soon become available from the soon-to-be former Virgin Trains West Coast. These are planned to be phased out by the new franchise owner First/Trenitalia. Adopting these would mean very little adaptation required and no new driver training. There may also be the opportunity to obtain some redundant HST units along the line from LNER/EMR. They key is using what is currently available until a new award is given - and given the current Government plans - who knows what’ll happen...
Every available train is in service every day, and when issues happen, like the fire in Doncaster yesterday, it makes the situation worse.
With the DfT extending the franchise until October 2020 it means there isn’t anything that will change soon, as Arriva/DB most likely won’t sign off on any new rolling stock agreements or training for the drivers/TM’s etc if they won’t have the franchise long enough for a return on investment.
The only saving grace is that a swathe of 221 Voyagers should soon become available from the soon-to-be former Virgin Trains West Coast. These are planned to be phased out by the new franchise owner First/Trenitalia. Adopting these would mean very little adaptation required and no new driver training. There may also be the opportunity to obtain some redundant HST units along the line from LNER/EMR. They key is using what is currently available until a new award is given - and given the current Government plans - who knows what’ll happen...
Last edited:
ValentaFan1974
Member
- Joined
- 8 Jul 2014
- Messages
- 225
I doubt very much that XC will take EMR’s 222’s due to their inability to operate in multiple with 220/221’s.
As a daily XC passenger... sorry... “customer”, I have been saying this for years but the answer from XC is always the same, notwithstanding the fact that many trains are packed and standing, often to levels that feel dangerous.
These services, being some of the longest distance point to point journeys, should be the longest and most comfortable trains in the UK.
They should have facilities commensurate with other such long distance services on the continent including more tables, an element of compartment seating for families and business people, a large luggage car, restaurant and buffet facilities.
As it is the offering feels like a budget airline without the perfumes. A minimum standard of service should be an LNER-standard Class 80x bi-mode with 9 coaches and a buffet counter.
These services, being some of the longest distance point to point journeys, should be the longest and most comfortable trains in the UK.
They should have facilities commensurate with other such long distance services on the continent including more tables, an element of compartment seating for families and business people, a large luggage car, restaurant and buffet facilities.
As it is the offering feels like a budget airline without the perfumes. A minimum standard of service should be an LNER-standard Class 80x bi-mode with 9 coaches and a buffet counter.
I’m supposed to be going from Bodmin Parkway to Birmingham New Street on CrossCountry on Monday and I’m seriously considering cancelling because I can’t bare the thought of being in a packed train for 4 hours.
I agree, it should be far more luxurious and spacious than it currently is.
At least with a budget airline, you get a seat!
Jorge Da Silva
Established Member
HSTs seem like the only option. Even then lack of cash to lease them and the franchise due to expire next year I suspect the situation will remain until at least 2023. Though the Williams Review does means no franchises anymore as it has been announced the system has been scrapped. A competition style system seems the likely option so CrossCountry could end up looking very different so no solutions until 2023 at the earliest
Are the CrossCountry HST’s generally less overcrowded? If so I can alter my journey to get on one of those instead
Jorge Da Silva
Established Member
cant say as I do not travel on them but they are longer as they have more seats so my best guess is yes. The voyagers are too small and are inadequate for the job. It might be a good idea to change your journey to a HST if possible. Sometimes XC run two voyagers.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,445
Not really a problem with the HSTs is it? They could easily be separately diagrammed to one route. But I’m losing track of how many times this alleged problem with 222s has been discussed before...
Depends on whether you want yet more multiple working. If you take the seven-car 222s and create more of them out of the shorter formations, then you get a longer single-unit train. You know, the things that XC actually needs.
Or you just forget about 22xs and ask Hitachi for some shiny new bi-modes - which could be rolling off the production lines straight after the EMR (and presumably West Coast) bi-mode orders are completed.
And the minor matter of the horror show that modifying HSTs with power doors has become. I can't see anyone willing to go down that road again. Even if Wabtec was willing - which it won't be, as its losses on the current contracts are probably eye-watering - you wouldn't see a single modified set until well into next year.
sprinterguy
Established Member
In my experience, the HST that works 1S51 12:25 Plymouth - Glasgow Central remains reasonably quiet as far as Birmingham, it only gets really busy from there northwards. I'm not sure how any later northbound HST workings fare, but having seven carriages has got to help.
Journeyman
Established Member
- Joined
- 16 Apr 2014
- Messages
- 6,295
I don't think this is particularly realistic, or necessary. I personally don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with the current stock, the only real issue is the level of overcrowding. With longer trains, that wouldn't be a problem. I'm happy to ride long distances in a Voyager if there aren't hordes of standees all the way along the aisles - that's the issue that needs to be resolved.
Thank you. I have an off peak return so presumably I can take any route as long as it starts and ends at the same stations? I can easily get the HST from Plymouth if this is the case
That’s good news! I’m travelling off peak too so I’m thinking getting the HST is a much better option.
Scratch that - the 1225 from Plymouth isn’t off peak
Never mind - that journey isn’t off peak
ExRes
Established Member
Alleged? when I signed 222s we were told quite clearly that we did not attach to 220/221s under any circumstances
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,445
Sorry, to clarify I meant the alleged problem of “not being able to use them at all”, because they couldn’t multiple with 220/1.
Snow1964
Established Member
The blunt answer is that for the first franchise the Department for Transport decided to allow a change from the old BR cross country with shorter more frequent trains, but little spare capacity for any growth. When it came up for renewal DfT didn't want to expand the fleet to save money. Subsequently train type was discontinued so would need something else which would all cost more to lease.
Used to be HSTs on the NE to SW Corridor, and just about everything else operating 9-12 loco hauled rakes (mainly 2b to 2d carriages). But many trains only operated once or twice a day.
ExRes
Established Member
Feel free to ask in the Fares Advice section if you want to know about permitted routes and valid times you can travel with your ticket: https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/fares-advice-policy.105/ or, for more general queries regarding trip planning, feel free to ask at https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/trip-planning-reports.24/
As for suggestions for improving XC, people are welcome to use a thread linked to above, where appropriate, or to create a new thread (in the correct area of the forum) if there isn't a suitable thread already
- Status