CrossCountry HST Diagrams

[Halish Railway]

It wouldn’t surprise me if 1V46/1S53 remained Voyager operated in practice, with occasional unbooked HST appearances on 1S37/1V68.

5V46 is from Crofton depot to York, so will be a Voyager. That doesn't exclude the possibility of an STP working from Neville Hill to enable HST operation where required.

 

[DanNCL]

5V46 is from Crofton depot to York, so will be a Voyager. That doesn't exclude the possibility of an STP working from Neville Hill to enable HST operation where required.

There’s also a Neville Hill - York path for it, runs as required.

 

[GS250]

Ahhh, the most expensive HST ride on the market. Been meaning to grab that Plymouth-Glasgow/Edinburgh as a final farewell type tour.

The irony being that its actually the fault of the pathetic 4-5 car Voyagers which is the reason XC fares are so high.

 

[43055]

I also checked realtime trains like yesterday for May 22nd in a few months time.

I know 'pathed as' doesn't mean booked for but I'm quite suspicious but in a curious way...

The 11:27 PLY - EDB should be a Voyager as its formed after the 06:10 from Derby.

The 13:27 PLY - EDB should be the HST as its formed after the 06:45 from York.

Also, when the 08:06 EDB - PLY arrives at Plymouth at 16:48, the train then works the 17:23 back to Leeds.

So the HST diagrams could be as follows...

(The usual)
06:12 LDS - PLY 11:48
12:27 PLY - GLC 22:13

06:06 EDB - PLY 14:48
15:27 PLY - LDS 21:02

08:06 EDB - PLY 16:48
17:23 PLY - LDS 23:34

06:45 YRK - PLY 12:48
13:27 PLY - EDB 22:13

I wouldn't be surprised if CrossCountry was able to do this after previously deciding for the 16:48 arrival at Plymouth to run ECS Laira and for the 13:27 from Plymouth to run ECS from Laira!

The current 2 diagrams look to continue as normal. The latter 2 diagrams look to be not so sure as the 0645 from York only has an 'as required' path from Neville Hill on Mondays. Maybe it could be 2 diagrams mid-week and 3 or 4 at weekends?

In other news a GWR castle set was used on 1V59 1710 Bristol - Paignton yesterday

Realtime Trains | 1V59 1710 Bristol Temple Meads to Paignton | 04/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 1V59 1710 departure from Bristol Temple Meads to Paignton on 04/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:31531/2023-02-04/detailed#allox_id=0 - empty stock to Laira

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

The current 2 diagrams look to continue as normal. The latter 2 diagrams look to be not so sure as the 0645 from York only has an 'as required' path from Neville Hill on Mondays. Maybe it could be 2 diagrams mid-week and 3 or 4 at weekends?

In other news a GWR castle set was used on 1V59 1710 Bristol - Paignton yesterday

Realtime Trains | 1V59 1710 Bristol Temple Meads to Paignton | 04/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 1V59 1710 departure from Bristol Temple Meads to Paignton on 04/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:31531/2023-02-04/detailed#allox_id=0 - empty stock to Laira

So why were we told of more HST diagrams. I was told by a member of XC staff on the charter at the SVR on September 27th and it said in a quite recent issue of Modern Railways.

 

[Rhydgaled]

The main reason for those diagrams if I recall correctly is to have the sets on the busiest arrivals/departures at New Street. In particular 1S51 needs the capacity of the HST as it’s a peak time departure from both New Street and Leeds, so it doesn’t properly empty out until Newcastle. Additionally there’s only one other suitable diagram from Laira - an out and back Edinburgh working on 1S37/1V68. It wouldn’t surprise me if 1V46/1S53 remained Voyager operated in practice, with occasional unbooked HST appearances on 1S37/1V68.

Wouldn't a double Voyager (10 coaches) provide more capacity for the busiest arrivals/departures than XC's 2+7 sets? What is it, about 455 seats on the 2+7, about 220 seats on a 4-car Voyager and about 290 seats on a 5-car Voyager (so 580 seats on a 10-car formation)?

If my numbers are correct, in order of capacity, XC's potential InterCity formations would be:

• 10-car Voyager (580 seats)
• 9-car Voyager (510 seats)
• 2+7 IC125 (455 seats)
• 8-car Voyager (440 seats)
• 5-car Voyager (290 seats)
• 4-car Voyager (220 seats)

 

[DanNCL]

Wouldn't a double Voyager (10 coaches) provide more capacity for the busiest arrivals/departures than XC's 2+7 sets? What is it, about 455 seats on the 2+7, about 220 seats on a 4-car Voyager and about 290 seats on a 5-car Voyager (so 580 seats on a 10-car formation)?

If my numbers are correct, in order of capacity, XC's potential InterCity formations would be:

• 10-car Voyager (580 seats)
• 9-car Voyager (510 seats)
• 2+7 IC125 (455 seats)
• 8-car Voyager (440 seats)
• 5-car Voyager (290 seats)
• 4-car Voyager (220 seats)

I think the idea is there’s effectively two capacity categories, equivalent to single voyager and double voyager, and a HST is equivalent to the latter.

I don’t think there are any booked 10 car diagrams? Definitely some 9 car diagrams though.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I think the idea is there’s effectively two capacity categories, equivalent to single voyager and double voyager, and a HST is equivalent to the latter.

Ok, are all the busiest services (that justify/require the use of the latter capacity category) heading south in the morning and north in the afternoon/evening then? Or could the IC125 diagrams be re-jigged to have one set overnight in the south (where I understand they are maintained, at Plymouth Laira, meaning they wouldn't have to swap sets in the middle of the day to get them on/off Laira) while still ensuring the busiest services get long trains?

Is it 12 power cars and 5 rakes of coaches that XC have? And do I recall correctly that they are planning to ramp up to 4 diagrams once the current overhaul (C6?) is complete?

 

[Wyrleybart]

Ok, are all the busiest services (that justify/require the use of the latter capacity category) heading south in the morning and north in the afternoon/evening then? Or could the IC125 diagrams be re-jigged to have one set overnight in the south (where I understand they are maintained, at Plymouth Laira, meaning they wouldn't have to swap sets in the middle of the day to get them on/off Laira) while still ensuring the busiest services get long trains?

Is it 12 power cars and 5 rakes of coaches that XC have? And do I recall correctly that they are planning to ramp up to 4 diagrams once the current overhaul (C6?) is complete?

You cannot just allocate ten car voyagers though because certain stations / route preclude all cars being platformed. IIRC maximum 9 cars Chesterfield and west of Bristol, so TMs would need to lock a vehicle out of use, which imports a risk.

 

[Jimini]

I'm a regular user of the Manchester <> Reading (and on to Bournemouth) services, and I've only ever encountered a ten car diagram once, was a few weeks ago between Brum and Reading. Everything else is 4/5/8/9 as alluded to above.

 

[irish_rail]

Ok, are all the busiest services (that justify/require the use of the latter capacity category) heading south in the morning and north in the afternoon/evening then? Or could the IC125 diagrams be re-jigged to have one set overnight in the south (where I understand they are maintained, at Plymouth Laira, meaning they wouldn't have to swap sets in the middle of the day to get them on/off Laira) while still ensuring the busiest services get long trains?

Is it 12 power cars and 5 rakes of coaches that XC have? And do I recall correctly that they are planning to ramp up to 4 diagrams once the current overhaul (C6?) is complete?

Is the rush hour into Birmingham even still as busy as it was pre covid? Or is the major capacity issues now on leisure trips? I'm not convinced that Birmingham still should be the sole raisin de etre behing HST diagramming. As you say, surely one of the diagrams could start and end at Plymouth. Is it just a case of "its always been like this so why change it"??

 

[davidknibb]

For what it's worth, I was on the 09.31 Derby to BHM this morning (07.02.2023 - Newcastle-Bristol)) and it was a 10 coach formation. And pretty well loaded.

 

[Jimini]

Just doing an idle bit of flicking around on RTT and the 1915 from Reading to Manchester tonight is a ten car service.

Meanwhile, the 1815 from Bournemouth to Manchester is only a five car set. Go figure, eh. The Bournemouth ones do tend to be more likely to be short-formed than the Reading terminators, at least in my experience.

 

[XC victim]

I'm a regular user of the Manchester <> Reading (and on to Bournemouth) services, and I've only ever encountered a ten car diagram once, was a few weeks ago between Brum and Reading. Everything else is 4/5/8/9 as alluded to above.

I have encountered occasional 10 car services on the Manchester - Reading / Bournemouth route. I still see quite a few 4 car services on this route. I know diagramming is complex but I really wish that XC would try to ensure all single voyager services are formed of 5 car units, surely that must be possible.

 

[Class172]

You cannot just allocate ten car voyagers though because certain stations / route preclude all cars being platformed. IIRC maximum 9 cars Chesterfield and west of Bristol, so TMs would need to lock a vehicle out of use, which imports a risk.

I travelled on a 10-coach service last weekend, which was doing a Plymouth-York run (and return): https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C71474/2023-02-04/detailed#allox_id=0

As you note though, when I boarded and alighted the train, the rearmost carriage was locked out of use. At some point in the journey (I think Taunton-Bristol Parkway) they did unlock it to allow extra seating space.

 

[DanNCL]

I have encountered occasional 10 car services on the Manchester - Reading / Bournemouth route. I still see quite a few 4 car services on this route. I know diagramming is complex but I really wish that XC would try to ensure all single voyager services are formed of 5 car units, surely that must be possible.

Newcastle - Reading can only be 4 car units as they’re mostly booked to use the west facing bays at Newcastle which are 4 car max. If a 5 car unit turns up it causes problems when it gets to Newcastle as it’ll get in the way, either in the way of TPE at platform 3 or Northern at platform 5.

Anything that visits or interworks with anything that visits Newcastle Platforms 9-12 can only be booked a 4 car unit.

 

[Derbyshire Gra]

Wouldn't a double Voyager (10 coaches) provide more capacity for the busiest arrivals/departures than XC's 2+7 sets? What is it, about 455 seats on the 2+7, about 220 seats on a 4-car Voyager and about 290 seats on a 5-car Voyager (so 580 seats on a 10-car formation)?

If my numbers are correct, in order of capacity, XC's potential InterCity formations would be:

• 10-car Voyager (580 seats)
• 9-car Voyager (510 seats)
• 2+7 IC125 (455 seats)
• 8-car Voyager (440 seats)
• 5-car Voyager (290 seats)
• 4-car Voyager (220 seats)

Can't work out your numbers - I've just worked through the declared Cross Country Seating Plan and get the numbers as follows:
10 car Voyager - as I understand it, not possible to operate normally without one coach being locked out - theortically 524 seats
9 car Voyager - 462 seats
2+7 IC125 - 445 seats
8 car Voyager - 400 seats
5 car Voyager - 262 seats
4 car Voyager - 200 seats

 

[qantas330]

Noticed a 2 x 5 voyager in use today at Reading

 

[Falcon1200]

The vehicle locked out of use could either be a Standard or a First Class coach, depending how the sets are marshalled and oriented, thus the capacity of 2 x 5 minus 1 is variable!

 

[Rhydgaled]

Can't work out your numbers - I've just worked through the declared Cross Country Seating Plan and get the numbers as follows:
10 car Voyager - as I understand it, not possible to operate normally without one coach being locked out - theortically 524 seats
9 car Voyager - 462 seats
2+7 IC125 - 445 seats
8 car Voyager - 400 seats
5 car Voyager - 262 seats
4 car Voyager - 200 seats

Mine were from a very quick look at the seat plans - just looking at the highest seat number in each coach (which obviously doesn't give a 100% accurate answer since some seat numbers are missing on some coaches).

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi - any XC HSTs out for this Saturday 18th feb? Can't easily find the weekend diagrams back in the thread, and not in the frequently requested diagrams pages as yet.
Thanks in advance.

 

[43055]

Hi - any XC HSTs out for this Saturday 18th feb? Can't easily find the weekend diagrams back in the thread, and not in the frequently requested diagrams pages as yet.
Thanks in advance.

Looks like the following:

0609 Leeds - Plymouth
1227 Plymouth - Edinburgh

0606 Edinburgh - Plymouth
1627 Plymouth - Leeds

All bar the 0609 ex Leeds via Cross City between Burton and Birmingham.

 

[WesternLancer]

Looks like the following:

0609 Leeds - Plymouth
1227 Plymouth - Edinburgh

0606 Edinburgh - Plymouth
1627 Plymouth - Leeds

All bar the 0609 ex Leeds via Cross City between Burton and Birmingham.

Many thanks - much appreciated!

 

[DarloRich]

Is there an extra HST out this Sunday (19/02/23)? Spotter wibble suggests that there is but my source is not, shall we say, realistic sometimes!

( I think he has got all excited because there are engineering works around Brum & at Cheltenham and extrapolated from previous occurrences! he has suggested 2 x Plymouth > Leeds and 1 x Plymouth > Edinburgh))

 

[louis97]

Is there an extra HST out this Sunday (19/02/23)? Spotter wibble suggests that there is but my source is not, shall we say, realistic sometimes!

( I think he has got all excited because there are engineering works around Brum & at Cheltenham and extrapolated from previous occurrences! he has suggested 2 x Plymouth > Leeds and 1 x Plymouth > Edinburgh))

There isn't any XC HST workings from Plymouth this Sunday I don't think. The result of Lichfield diverts and the morning Brum to Cheltenham works.

 

[DarloRich]

There isn't any XC HST workings from Plymouth this Sunday I don't think. The result of Lichfield diverts and the morning Brum to Cheltenham works.

Thanks - that is what i thought!

 

[Liam L]

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K10343/2023-02-27/detailed - I thought I'd put this here as I presume it's HST related

Any ideas on what set / powercars will be running tomorrow?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rich McLean]

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K10343/2023-02-27/detailed - I thought I'd put this here as I presume it's HST related

Any ideas on what set / powercars will be running tomorrow?

Thanks in advance.

Should be XC02 43239+43303.

 

[route101]

Has Glasgow had a few HSTs diagrammed on the 0748 service last few Saturdays?

 

[sufian123]

Has Glasgow had a few HSTs diagrammed on the 0748 service last few Saturdays?

Properly due to divert via Lichfield. This coming Saturday it should be as well.