CrossCountry Train Managers striking in October

[dk1]

Contingency guards won't receive that level of training. Two or three weeks at most I suspect.

Yes, they often only do specific routes.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes, they often only do specific routes.

Yep. Expect a skeleton service to run on core routes (if indeed it does run). Normally that is where contingency TMs/guards are prioritised anyway as strike action is one of the exact reasons there's even a contingency crew set up.

 

[dk1]

Yep. Expect a skeleton service to run on core routes (if indeed it does run). Normally that is where contingency TMs/guards are prioritised anyway as strike action is one of the exact reasons there's even a contingency crew set up.

I mean more that each contingency manager/PUG only does say one route rather than the TMs who sign everything. That way there is less to learn/retain.

I mean more that each contingency manager/PUG only does say one route rather than the TMs who sign everything. That way there is less to learn/retain.

During the 2018 and recent strikes, ours only signed maybe 1 or 2 branch lines or the main line. Nothing was interchangeable.

 

[Horizon22]

I mean more that each contingency manager/PUG only does say one route rather than the TMs who sign everything. That way there is less to learn/retain.

Oh I meant the same, and also that the one route will tend to be prioritised accordingly. So 8 contingency TMs are more likely to know route A and 2 route B rather than 3/4 knowing each knowing one of route A / B / C / D.

 

[dk1]

Oh I meant the same, and also that the one route will tend to be prioritised accordingly. So 8 contingency TMs are more likely to know route A and 2 route B rather than 3/4 knowing each knowing one of route A / B / C / D.

Sorry mate, I misunderstood your comment. We’re on the same page

 

[bunnahabhain]

All that matters is as far as the ORR and RSSB is concerned, the guard is competent according to the TOC safety case and rule book. It's wholly irrelevant what anyone else thinks - if they're signed as competent, they're competent.

Lots of ordinary guard courses are far too long and have been reduced in length, but a lot of the time is simply because dealing with unions etc makes it impractical to cut the training time to a more appropriate level, because they fear it's reducing the role of the guard. Same with route learning, the unions demand a minimum training period for each route, and in most cases, it's excessive but nobody dares challenge it. The rulebook only requires that a guard is familiar with the features of a line, not required an in-depth knowledge.

Route learning norms are set by the operator not the union. I've just reviewed briefings and test papers for my depot and worked with an assessor and the depot manager to ensure they were up to standard.

We're increasing the length of training by a week at my TOC to accommodate an increase in route learning. An idea which came entirely from (checks notes) the management.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Quite a big accusation, what's it based on?

Says who?

Nothing I can say on a public forum.

 

[LowLevel]

All that matters is as far as the ORR and RSSB is concerned, the guard is competent according to the TOC safety case and rule book. It's wholly irrelevant what anyone else thinks - if they're signed as competent, they're competent.

Lots of ordinary guard courses are far too long and have been reduced in length, but a lot of the time is simply because dealing with unions etc makes it impractical to cut the training time to a more appropriate level, because they fear it's reducing the role of the guard. Same with route learning, the unions demand a minimum training period for each route, and in most cases, it's excessive but nobody dares challenge it. The rulebook only requires that a guard is familiar with the features of a line, not required an in-depth knowledge.

Not true - route learning is the key to avoiding operational incidents. I would say it's the most important element as a comfortable knowledge of where you are in the railway world sets you up to conduct your duties in an unhurried and methodical fashion, rather than rushing about because you haven't a clue where you are and your train is just dropping into a platform.

The road learning time for a guard is far less than a driver and that reflects the difference in detail needed, but a decent handle on what is going on around you is crucial for you to be of any use should you be involved in something unfortunate like running someone over or a total train failure.

This is especially the case these days with a far higher proportion of train guards being recruited from outside the railway - they really need the proper time and training to adjust to the role. Rushing tends to result in egg on faces.

 

[Horizon22]

Nothing I can say on a public forum.

Okay, so I’ll say that’s not relevant then. As I said, if there was a significant safety concern, the RSSB or ORR would have clamped down on it and indeed the unions would have brought up industrial action a lot earlier for safety reasons.

 

[KNN]

Okay, so I’ll say that’s not relevant then. As I said, if there was a significant safety concern, the RSSB or ORR would have clamped down on it and indeed the unions would have brought up industrial action a lot earlier for safety reasons.

Indeed. If there was any substance in it contingency arrangements would have been stopped.

 

[birchesgreen]

Luckily i'm not travelling on XC on a saturday in October, but i will be on a sunday. How likely is it the sunday service could be affected?

 

[father_jack]

A MORE IN DEPTH MISSIVE....

Dear RMT Member

MANAGERS WORKING AS GUARDS - CROSS COUNTRY

I am writing to provide further details of the negotiations held last week which resulted in your union's National Executive Committee (NEC) instructing members to take industrial action.

The talks which took place last Tuesday and Friday were held to find a resolution for the trade dispute regarding Managers Working as Guards.

However, despite your union negotiators' willingness to compromise and reach a negotiated settlement, the final proposals from the company do not resolve the situation to the satisfaction of the Lead Officer or Company Council Representatives.

RMT put forward proposals to the company that would have been cost effective as it would have cost the employer less than what they pay managers in undertaking the duties of you and your colleagues.

Unfortunately, the company would not accept the RMT position and wished to continue utilising their managers on rates of pay ranging from £450-£650 per shift. The company position was that Train Managers and Senior Conductors could be utilised but would only gain an extra £20 in some scenarios when the emergency timetable ends.

It was acknowledged by the company that they would require an increased number of managers working as guards when the emergency timetable comes to an end and with the Christmas period approaching.

The increased management working would be at the inflated rates above.

Clearly the offer of an additional £20 is no way to resolve this dispute while still utilising managers at the above rates.

As well as more equity in payments for working extra shifts, your union has also been seeking improvements in enhancements for Saturday working and a fairer system of shift coverage at weekends and for overtime.

It should also be noted that while managers are being paid the extortionate rates to do your work, they still get paid for not doing the job they are employed to do and is funded by the taxpayer.

This scandalous way of working cannot be tolerated and therefore left your negotiating team with no option other than to recommend an industrial response, which your NEC endorsed by instructing you to take strike action on every Saturday in October.

I can further advise you that, since that decision was taken, efforts have been made through direct communication with senior officials at the Department for Transport to investigate the practices adopted by Cross Country management during this process as they are needlessly wasting taxpayers' money. Unfortunately, such efforts have not borne success up to now and a meaningful response is still awaited.

Therefore, as the situation stands, the industrial action which I outlined in my communication to you last Friday goes ahead and you are instructed not to book on for any duties which commence between 00.01 hours and 23.59 hours on 5th, 12th, 19th and 26th October 2024.

You have made your views clear in delivering such a magnificent mandate for action and I am sure this will be matched with a show of solidarity on the strike days.

I will continue my efforts in pushing the DfT and government officials to intervene in this dispute and will keep you advised of any further developments.

Thank you for supporting your union's position during this dispute.
Yours sincerely,

Image

Michael Lynch
General Secretary

 

[Intercity_225]

Anything from the XC website? I'm travelling from Peterborough to New Street on the 19th and am not sure what to do.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Anything from the XC website? I'm travelling from Peterborough to New Street on the 19th and am not sure what to do.

The Turbostar routes aren't likely to operate or will have such a skeletal service that it will be difficult to use them. The priority is staffing the InterCity routes.

You'll no doubt be granted ticket acceptance, probably something like Peterborough-Leeds-Birmingham or Peterborough-Nottingham-Derby-Birmingham will be fine.

 

[Intercity_225]

The Turbostar routes aren't likely to operate or will have such a skeletal service that it will be difficult to use them. The priority is staffing the InterCity routes.

You'll no doubt be granted ticket acceptance, probably something like Peterborough-Leeds-Birmingham or Peterborough-Nottingham-Derby-Birmingham will be fine.

Thanks.

 

[ValleyLines142]

That’s a pretty poor show. Could they not maybe wear a high vis vest? I know on the planes you could operate in plain clothes in extremis as long as you had a high vis vest on and passengers were informed that you were operating crew. How are the punters meant to ‘see it, say it, sorted’ when they can’t identify who to say it to?

At GWR a lot of senior management work trains particularly at the weekends. Yes they are allowed to wear their own clothing as long as it is smart but must wear safety shoes and also their ID must be visible at all times. So much so that on one occasion, my good friend who is a contingency manager took over a train once from a train manager and that train manager asked to see that contingency manager's ID badge to ensure they weren't just handing the train over to any old bugger! (and rightly so!)

 

[kw12]

Anything from the XC website? I'm travelling from Peterborough to New Street on the 19th and am not sure what to do.

I've just looked at the XC website's industrial action page (at https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.u...tion/changes-to-train-times/industrial-action) and it states that "There is currently no industrial action."

 

[Russel]

I've just looked at the XC website's industrial action page (at https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.u...tion/changes-to-train-times/industrial-action) and it states that "There is currently no industrial action."

Yes, I noticed that, I checked it just after the RMT announced it and assumed XC just hadn't got around to updating the page, but given the strike action is just over a week away, this is just another example of that XC "we don't care" attitude.

 

[saintsara]

So is this industrial-action going ahead? On speaking to Cross Country they have no knowledge of it. I'm very confused

 

[12LDA28C]

So is this industrial-action going ahead? On speaking to Cross Country they have no knowledge of it. I'm very confused

Who exactly at CrossCountry have you spoken to? The action certainly seems to be going ahead.

 

[saintsara]

Who exactly at CrossCountry have you spoken to? The action certainly seems to be going ahead.

Thanks it was Cross Country customer services ‍♀️

 

[whoosh]

Could it be the case that Cross Country customer services doesn't know about the strikes, because the Manager concerned with briefing their staff about it, has been out and about - busy being a 'contingency guard', and not doing the job they are actually employed to do?

Sounds the sort of thing that could happen on the railway!

 

[saintsara]

Could it be the case that Cross Country customer services doesn't know about the strikes, because the Manager concerned with briefing their staff about it, has been out and about - busy being a 'contingency guard', and not doing the job they are actually employed to do?

Sounds the sort of thing that could happen on the railway!

Thanks I'm just confused on what is happening and what isn't

 

[Adam Williams]

There hasn't been any sort of retail brief about this, yet, though they usually only appear at the last minute anyway. I added it to the TrainSplit date pickers based on the RMT comms, which seems authoritative enough! Better to give passengers some information than none, particularly when time is ticking if they're e.g. making other accommodation arrangements ⏳

 

[virgintrain1]

A sold out flag has been placed on every train Birmingham - Bristol and the 5th to prevent you purchasing a ticket.

 

[Adam Williams]

A sold out flag has been placed on every train Birmingham - Bristol and the 5th to prevent you purchasing a ticket.

This isn't what the reservations system is for...

 

[saintsara]

There hasn't been any sort of retail brief about this, yet, though they usually only appear at the last minute anyway. I added it to the TrainSplit date pickers based on the RMT comms, which seems authoritative enough! Better to give passengers some information than none, particularly when time is ticking if they're e.g. making other accommodation arrangements ⏳

Don't they need to give 2 weeks notice to the public? 1st date is a week tomorrow

 

[Adam Williams]

Don't they need to give 2 weeks notice to the public? 1st date is a week tomorrow

Not to the public

 

[saintsara]

Ah ok RMT normally give 2 weeks notice

 

[skyhigh]

Ah ok RMT normally give 2 weeks notice

The union legally must give the company 14 days notice. They aren't required to give the public any notice at all (though either/both of the parties usually do some kind of press release).