CrossCountry Voyagers: No interior decor change in 12 years and counting

[Goldfish62]

I happen to be travelling on a voyager the other day. Absolutely disgraceful service. When boarding the overpacked train my only option was the to sit in first class. On arrival into to Basingstoke the retail service manager told me you can either pay to upgrade or find somewhere to stand. Some chose to sit in the toilet whilst others sat clumped together the smelly vestibule areas. The interior of the train felt dated battered seats, wall panelling scratched and carpets staind. I felt I had to complain to the on board crew. They said "we know the service is terrible", "we call them the flying toilets''. And I totally agree!

Flying toilets - like it.

 

[coradiafan2000]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. When the Voyagers aren't crowded they're some of the most pleasant trains in the country to travel on. All trains are hell when overcrowded.

 

[greatvoyager]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. When the Voyagers aren't crowded they're some of the most pleasant trains in the country to travel on. All trains are hell when overcrowded.

That's true, but most other trains that are overcrowded are either new, or have had a refurbishment. Voyagers are comfortable, but I think could at least do with a proper refresh.

 

[Dan15812]

The voyages a probably one of the worst trains for overcrowding due to the lack of walkthrough space!

In my opinion High Speed trains should never be overcrowded as passengers are traveling a much greater distance.

Voyagers aren't designed to be tube/ metro trains they are supposed to be comfortable long distance trains!

In this case there's clearly a problem with the XC franchise!

 

[greatvoyager]

The voyages a probably one of the worst trains for overcrowding due to the lack of walkthrough space!

In my opinion High Speed trains should never be overcrowded as passengers are traveling a much greater distance.

Voyagers aren't designed to be tube/ metro trains they are supposed to be comfortable long distance trains!

In this case there's clearly a problem with the XC franchise!

The problem is, that it looks like no one wants to sort it.

 

[Mordac]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. When the Voyagers aren't crowded they're some of the most pleasant trains in the country to travel on. All trains are hell when overcrowded.

I really second this. Had a great journey on a practically empty one yesterday from Reading to New Street. All they need is a deep clean and for the seats to get new covers (not new seats please, we all know they could only get worse).

The voyages a probably one of the worst trains for overcrowding due to the lack of walkthrough space!

In my opinion High Speed trains should never be overcrowded as passengers are traveling a much greater distance.

Voyagers aren't designed to be tube/ metro trains they are supposed to be comfortable long distance trains!

In this case there's clearly a problem with the XC franchise!

There is. The problem is that due to the overcrowding of the network, they have to act as both long distance trains, and commuter trains for certain flows.

 

[greatvoyager]

I really second this. Had a great journey on a practically empty one yesterday from Reading to New Street. All they need is a deep clean and for the seats to get new covers (not new seats please, we all know they could only get worse).



There is. The problem is that due to the overcrowding of the network, they have to act as both long distance trains, and commuter trains for certain flows.

Agree with all of this.

 

[physics34]

Well u can assume XC will get the West Coast voyagers..maybe!

 

[Energy]

Well u can assume XC will get the West Coast voyagers..maybe!

It would be logical but the DfT will probably block it, they blocked the GWR turbos getting refurbished multiple times for no obvious reason.

 

[harz99]

. All they need is a deep clean and for the seats to get new covers (not new seats please, we all know they could only get worse).
.

No, what they need is new CUSHIONS and also new covers, within the existing frames. Replacing just the covers is a purely for appearance solution and doesn't tackle the underlying problem of worn out seat cushions under the covers!

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

In my experience, Voyagers are generally not overcrowded off-peak on weekdays, but are normally overcrowded on weekends. Still though, 4 coaches an hour between Manchester and Bournemouth is not enough. GWR run 9/10 IETs to Bristol, Avanti West Coast run 11 coach Pendolinos on the WCML. It's a shame that CrossCountry haven't invested in lengthening trains (by ordering or leasing more rolling stock from ROSCOS).

 

[Dan15812]

No, what they need is new CUSHIONS and also new covers, within the existing frames. Replacing just the covers is a purely for appearance solution and doesn't tackle the underlying problem of worn out seat cushions under the covers!

Neither dose it solve the problem of scratched internal cladding/ seat frames, colour scheme/ lighting and the mankey threadbare carpets. Not to mention that sewage smell!

 

[al2000]

They also need that infernal window seat armrest sorting!

 

[class 9]

In my experience, Voyagers are generally not overcrowded off-peak on weekdays, but are normally overcrowded on weekends. Still though, 4 coaches an hour between Manchester and Bournemouth is not enough. GWR run 9/10 IETs to Bristol, Avanti West Coast run 11 coach Pendolinos on the WCML. It's a shame that CrossCountry haven't invested in lengthening trains (by ordering or leasing more rolling stock from ROSCOS).

TOCs can’t just order new stock, they are bound to the conditions of the franchise specifications which can’t be altered without the go ahead from the DFT.
XC are in the 4th year of ‘direct award’(aka do nothing) extensions, the overcrowding(which is acknowledged by all parties)and lack of action to address it, is squarely down to the inaction of the DFT.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Got an 8 coach 220 running to manchester via stoke, dont see many of them!

1 issue with them is that no matter the seat quality. The trains are still gonna get cramped anyway considering you cant move between units if joined

Did it arrive into Piccadilly around 7 or 8pm? There is one double booked on a Friday into Manchester, twice - in the morning, then again in the evening after a run to Bournemouth and back.

 

[greatvoyager]

TOCs can’t just order new stock, they are bound to the conditions of the franchise specifications which can’t be altered without the go ahead from the DFT.
XC are in the 4th year of ‘direct award’(aka do nothing) extensions, the overcrowding(which is acknowledged by all parties)and lack of action to address it, is squarely down to the inaction of the DFT.

The direct award seems to be causing more problems.

 

[hooverboy]

The direct award seems to be causing more problems.

the direct award is more like a stay of execution.
no real point in doing anything other than just existing.

there is a LOT of unlockable potential on these routes,but passengers need to be confident that they will get a train,and get a seat.

from a ToC perspective the juggling act is how to supply both at minimal expense.
hence why I see redeployment of voyagers as the "go to" solution for the incumbent operator.

for the "core" routes from manchester/leeds down to oxford,via birmingham or derby/sheffield it is crying out for an 8 car service.
The bean counters will probably only sanction a 5 car set.

 

[greatvoyager]

the direct award is more like a stay of execution.
no real point in doing anything other than just existing.

there is a LOT of unlockable potential on these routes,but passengers need to be confident that they will get a train,and get a seat.

from a ToC perspective the juggling act is how to supply both at minimal expense.

The problem is, because they only have one year extensions, it's difficult to draw up a plan of action, which will have an affect on any investment.

 

[greatvoyager]

Well u can assume XC will get the West Coast voyagers..maybe!

That would help and would make complete sense, but the way things are going (and with the Virgin Open Access proposing to use the Avanti Voyagers), there really is no guarantee.

 

[hooverboy]

The problem is, because they only have one year extensions, it's difficult to draw up a plan of action, which will have an affect on any investment.

precisely.
you want to know where assets are to be deployed and how much it will cost. Most contracts will get a much,much better rate on a long term lease(7-10 years) than a short one.(12-24 mth)

 

[hooverboy]

That would help and would make complete sense, but the way things are going (and with the Virgin Open Access proposing to use the Avanti Voyagers), there really is no guarantee.

not sure virgin are planning on voyagers...unless they're planning to re-bid for XC when it comes up for renewal(wouldn't complain)
for london-blackpool open access i heard it was some LNER 91+MK4+DVT sets.

 

[hooverboy]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. When the Voyagers aren't crowded they're some of the most pleasant trains in the country to travel on. All trains are hell when overcrowded.

voyagers are simply too short these days given the increase in passenger traffic.
the other mantra from logistics about shorter,more frequent trains has now also been proven wrong.

too much congestion on the network for signalling to manage effectively

seems like a doubled up core service would be the way to go,with a split at peripharies.

 

[greatvoyager]

not sure virgin are planning on voyagers...unless they're planning to re-bid for XC when it comes up for renewal(wouldn't complain)
for london-blackpool open access i heard it was some LNER 91+MK4+DVT sets.

It's in their official application for London - Liverpool, as they can go 125mph with tilt
https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pd...s-limited-daft-track-access-contract-form.pdf
Getting back on topic, they would help to provide the slack in stock to get the XC fleet refurbished.

 

[greatvoyager]

voyagers are simply too short these days given the increase in passenger traffic.
the other mantra from logistics about shorter,more frequent trains has now also been proven wrong.

too much congestion on the network for signalling to manage effectively

seems like a doubled up core service would be the way to go,with a split at peripharies.

I think if they can refresh the interior and get doubled up units, passengers may be more tempted and there could be better overall management of the fleet.

 

[greatvoyager]

precisely.
you want to know where assets are to be deployed and how much it will cost. Most contracts will get a much,much better rate on a long term lease(7-10 years) than a short one.(12-24 mth)

It's almost as if this is being done to put off having to deal with the problem.

 

[hooverboy]

It's in their official application for London - Liverpool, as they can go 125mph with tilt
https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pd...s-limited-daft-track-access-contract-form.pdf
Getting back on topic, they would help to provide the slack in stock to get the XC fleet refurbished.

interesting.
I think liverpool lime street is electrified now, not sure what benefit 221's would add as the LNER stock would be much lower running costs.

I think these applications are probably subject to amendment.

 

[hooverboy]

I think if they can refresh the interior and get doubled up units, passengers may be more tempted and there could be better overall management of the fleet.

that's my thinking.
from seeing the regular scrums at birmingham new street trying to board a 4 car set,despatch going nuts and passengers unable to board, I definitely think everybody would be far happier with a bit more space!

 

[greatvoyager]

Could a refurbishment mean replacing the air con system so it doesn't spread the smell?

 

[greatvoyager]

that's my thinking.
from seeing the regular scrums at birmingham new street trying to board a 4 car set,despatch going nuts and passengers unable to board, I definitely think everybody would be far happier with a bit more space!

Exactly what I thought.

 

[greatvoyager]

Wouldn't investing in the stock and adding more capacity actually make the operation more profitable?