CrossCountry XC Class 170 refurbishment

[Discuss223]

@Discuss223 Slightly confused by the dates, as the article you linked headlines with customer experience will be transformed by May 2025

Bigger fleet, more seats: CrossCountry reveals plans to transform customer experience by May 2025 | CrossCountry

Train operator announces massive expansion to long-distance fleet, transforming journeys with around 25% more seats available than today.

www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk

So why would it be continuing beyond May ?

Also announced is the complete refurbishment of both of CrossCountry’s train fleets – including Turbostar trains which operate regional services from Birmingham to Cardiff, Nottingham and Stansted Airport - transforming the on-board experience for customers across all CrossCountry routes by summer 2026.

It says here that the experience will be transformed by summer 2026. It can take many months to complete a mammoth project such as this.

 

[ajp999]

The on-board experience may be transformed; but will it be for the better; that can be very subjective

 

[swt_passenger]

My post here no longer needed after threads merged.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I understand First Class will be removed from the 170 routes. Will the First Class compartment therefore be removed or refurbished and declassified?

 

[voyagerdude220]

I understand First Class will be removed from the 170 routes. Will the First Class compartment therefore be removed or refurbished and declassified?

Probably removed and replaced with normal 2+2 Standard Class seating- hence the statement from Cross Country that the refurbishment will provide extra seating.

 

[hexagon789]

I understand First Class will be removed from the 170 routes. Will the First Class compartment therefore be removed or refurbished and declassified?

It's being removed altogether. The existing First Class compartments are already declassified as of the recent December timetable change.

Probably removed and replaced with normal 2+2 Standard Class seating- hence the statement from Cross Country that the refurbishment will provide extra seating.

Correct, being removed/reseated to 2+2 Std.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I understand First Class will be removed from the 170 routes. Will the First Class compartment therefore be removed or refurbished and declassified?

It's already gone. I'm really not convinced by the rationale for the change given the Turbostar 1st class compartment only has nine seats in it anyway.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I understand First Class will be removed from the 170 routes. Will the First Class compartment therefore be removed or refurbished and declassified?

Has been removed.

 

[Kite159]

It's already gone. I'm really not convinced by the rationale for the change given the Turbostar 1st class compartment only has nine seats in it anyway.

And making it 2+2 seating will only gain 2 extra seats, unless they remove the inwards facing seat by the cab end to squeeze in an extra couple of legs (similar to the 377/1s)

 

[Andy Pacer]

And making it 2+2 seating will only gain 2 extra seats, unless they remove the inwards facing seat by the cab end to squeeze in an extra couple of legs (similar to the 377/1s)

Will there be enough space for that? The fully standard sets that EMR have (ex WMR) have those "inwards facing" seats so would suggest that's the optimum configuration for standard.

 

[Bishopstone]

It’s not just the number of seats. Removing First permits (legitimate) standing in this area when a service is crowded.

 

[bunnahabhain]

It's been removed to keep parity of seats because the bike space can no longer be in a location shared with the wheelchair space. So a bay of 4 is coming out of the No1 end of the 50xxx vehicle to create the space with two sideways seats between the bike space and the cab. Same as the EMR refurb.

 

[hexagon789]

And making it 2+2 seating will only gain 2 extra seats, unless they remove the inwards facing seat by the cab end to squeeze in an extra couple of legs (similar to the 377/1s)

Depends how they do it, but on ScotRail Std only units, there are 14 seats in the behind cab sections - two tables of 4 (8), one airline row (+4 = 12), two inward facing priority seats (+2 =14). So you could gain potentially 5 further seats vs a 9 seater 2+1 First section. Alternatively, omit the tables and priority seats and you could fit 4 airline rows for a total of 16 seats.

 

[Tetchytyke]

And making it 2+2 seating will only gain 2 extra seats, unless they remove the inwards facing seat by the cab end to squeeze in an extra couple of legs (similar to the 377/1s)

XC don’t have that, they have a bay of 4, a bay of 2, and three airline seats. So changing to 2+2 would only add three seats. Where some Turbostars have a sideways seat the XC ones sensibly have a luggage rack.

Seems completely pointless but I suppose it looks good in a press release.

 

[TheBigD]

CrossCountry Class 170 Turbostar Refurbishment
There's a thread for the Voyager refurbishment but not the CrossCountry Turbostars, so here it is [snip].

The original thread is here...

CrossCountry XC Class 170 refurbishment

So, I’m not sure if these have been shared on here already. If not, be prepared, your in for a surprise… mods note, split from here Are there any mock ups for the 170s?

www.railforums.co.uk

...though it is locked.

 

[reecestrains]

I have already seen what I believe to be a prototype for the light fitting refurbishment, on unit 170619, which now has some experimental light filters with three vertical circles in the middle of them. I didn't have my camera with me, or else I'd have gotten a photograph. The lights also appeared to be brighter but didn't seem to be LED.

The full refurbishment is due to commence in 2025 and be completed by 2026.

Aren't these similar to the ones recently installed on Chiltern's Class 168's?

 

[py_megapixel]

It’s not just the number of seats. Removing First permits (legitimate) standing in this area when a service is crowded.

True, though I was on a short formed Turbostar service yesterday where despite every seat being taken and the door vestibules being packed, nobody was standing in the aisle at all! Probably because the Turbostars have quite narrow aisles, and I doubt the refurb will make much difference there.

 

[CR165022]

Aren't these similar to the ones recently installed on Chiltern's Class 168's?

These are the ones on the refurbished 168s, could be wrong but they sound similar.

 

[Cowley]

The original thread is here...

CrossCountry XC Class 170 refurbishment

So, I’m not sure if these have been shared on here already. If not, be prepared, your in for a surprise… mods note, split from here Are there any mock ups for the 170s?

www.railforums.co.uk

...though it is locked.

Now merged to keep it all in one place

 

[reecestrains]

Personally, I think the deflectors on the newer 170's are just fine in my opinion.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jan 2025 ==

Taken on a ScotRail service.

 

[Discuss223]

These are the ones on the refurbished 168s, could be wrong but they sound similar.

Oh yes, those are the ones I saw on 619.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jan 2025 ==

Now merged to keep it all in one place

Thank you, I did look for an existing thread before I posted but could not see one. I didn't want to take the Voyager one off topic.

 

[Russel]

XC don’t have that, they have a bay of 4, a bay of 2, and three airline seats. So changing to 2+2 would only add three seats. Where some Turbostars have a sideways seat the XC ones sensibly have a luggage rack.

Seems completely pointless but I suppose it looks good in a press release.

It's not just adding 3 seats, it's adding 12 standard class seats that are desperately needed...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Personally, I think the deflectors on the newer 170's are just fine in my opinion.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jan 2025 ==

Taken on a ScotRail service.

I think you’d have to be really eagle eyed (or a very serious spotter) to notice any real difference, to be honest.

 

[Russel]

Personally, I think the deflectors on the newer 170's are just fine in my opinion.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jan 2025 ==

Taken on a ScotRail service.

What am I looking at in this photo?

All I see is a standard 170 interior.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

What am I looking at in this photo?

All I see is a standard 170 interior.

And thus my post immediately above yours is proven correct.

 

[reecestrains]

What am I looking at in this photo?

All I see is a standard 170 interior.

Light deflectors, they are similar to the newer ones. Okay, it's not the best image but it's what I have.

Again, all just my opinions on the matter.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2025 ==

Maybe I am eagle eyed!!

 

[43096]

Light deflectors, they are similar to the newer ones. Okay, it's not the best image but it's what I have.

Again, all just my opinions on the matter.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2025 ==

Maybe I am eagle eyed!!

Diffuser is the correct term, I believe.

 

[driverd]

Light deflectors, they are similar to the newer ones. Okay, it's not the best image but it's what I have.

Again, all just my opinions on the matter.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2025 ==

Maybe I am eagle eyed!!

Exactly - and specifically the contrast to those fitted on the 168 in an earlier post. I get the point - I wouldn't notice such details unless looking for them (thank you railforums as I shall now forever notice these one 170s ), but the bigger point I suppose is how these things change the interior feel. Most modern train lighting is of the ultra-bright LED type, thus how trains like 185s and 700s emit more light than the sun (okay, slightly exaggeration, but 185s used to make me squint and cover my eyes when entering the saloon from a dark cab, with how painfully bright they were). That has a big impact on how comfortable a train feels, especially in hours of darkness.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's not just adding 3 seats, it's adding 12 standard class seats that are desperately needed...

There are currently 9 seats, the refurbishment will change it to 12 seats. So 3 more.

The December change doesn't even add any seats at all: 9 first class seats simply become 9 standard class seats.

I really don't understand the change.

Converting 9 first class seats into standard class will make naff all difference to capacity- the people who bought first class tickets will still be travelling. But it will have a impact on revenue- those people who bought first class tickets will now be buying standard class tickets.

Given that XC is already losing money hand over fist, turning away first class revenue is an "interesting" decision.

 

[dvboy]

There are currently 9 seats, the refurbishment will change it to 12 seats. Last time I looked, 12-9=3.

The December change doesn't even add any seats at all: 9 first class seats simply become 9 standard class seats.

I really don't understand the change.

Converting 9 first class seats into standard class will make naff all difference to capacity- the people who bought first class tickets will still be travelling. But it will have a impact on revenue- those people who bought first class tickets will now be buying standard class tickets.

Given that XC is already losing money hand over fist, turning away first class revenue is an "interesting" decision.

Perhaps they aren't selling many first class tickets anyway, given it's not really worth it. Many of the trains don't have a catering trolley at all.
They have withdrawn first class advances for that route from sale. It's adding 9 seats to standard capacity. Doesn't sound a lot but will make a difference.
I will be taking advantage of a bigger seat in the declassified first class, as the standard class seats don't leave much leg room.