CrossCountry XC Class 170 refurbishment

[Royston Vasey]

Looks like 170117 is heading that way this afternoon on the 1L44 1422 Birmingham New Street to Stansted Airport service

Realtime Trains | 1L44 1422 Birmingham New Street to Stansted Airport | 30/01/2025

Real-time train running information for 1L44 1422 departure from Birmingham New Street to Stansted Airport on 30/01/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

2 coaches of hardly any legroom, luxurious

Oof. At least at 1422 out and 1821 return, it's been kept away from the main peak flows.

 

[Anonymous10]

I know its not a Voyager but here is new liveried 170101 at Crewe.
[Image shows 170101 having been repainted into the new Red/Pink scheme without branding outside Crewe LNWR]

Well... it's... something I suppose.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well... it's... something I suppose.

It has a very Ouigo look to it, but minus the very cheap fares.

Not a fan of any of the plans to be honest, from the garish, cheap colour scheme to the bad choice of legroom-reducing seating. But neither XC nor parent Arriva is known for good decisions in my experience.

 

[SuperS16v]

Looks cheap, particularly the white doors at the end that are out of keeping with the rest of it. Trouble is XC isn't actually cheap...

Northern's base is white so it fits, XC's is grey, so it sticks out horribly. Personal view of course.

I guess it stands out at the moment because the White ‘X’ branding still needs to be added.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That to be honest looks even worse, and will look worse still when it's grimy light brown with brake dust and dirt. A design for a budget coach operator, not a railway with some of the highest fares on the network which needs to project quality.

 

[Tram203]

Looks like 170117 is heading that way this afternoon on the 1L44 1422 Birmingham New Street to Stansted Airport service

Realtime Trains | 1L44 1422 Birmingham New Street to Stansted Airport | 30/01/2025

Real-time train running information for 1L44 1422 departure from Birmingham New Street to Stansted Airport on 30/01/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

2 coaches of hardly any legroom, luxurious

Saturday just gone, there were 3 2-car sets on the Birmingham - Stansted circuit.

Both the 1622 and 1722 ex Birmingham were 2-car.

I was on the latter and cosy would be an understatement.

 

[Jamesrob637]

That to be honest looks even worse, and will look worse still when it's grimy light brown with brake dust and dirt. A design for a budget coach operator, not a railway with some of the highest fares on the network which needs to project quality.

Doesn't look much different from the current livery bar the red ends

Like you, not a massive fan. Advance fares on those routes would lead to severe overcrowding unless services are booked 5 or 6-car.

 

[AJDesiro]

Not a fan of any of the plans to be honest, from the garish, cheap colour scheme to the bad choice of legroom-reducing seating. But neither XC nor parent Arriva is known for good decisions in my experience.

In all fairness, surely a FISA LEAN is still thinner backed than the Lazzerini's they'll be replacing on all but two of the 170s? (those two having Chapmans)

I'm not the biggest fan of the LEAN myself, although the examples on the Avanti 80x are decent with the recline (there's tonnes of legroom anyway in first).

 

[Bletchleyite]

In all fairness, surely a FISA LEAN is still thinner backed than the Lazzerini's they'll be replacing on all but two of the 170s? (those two having Chapmans)

Yes, fair point. They're a bit thicker than Voyager seats but we are talking about 170s here. But it is a missed opportunity to do what Avanti did and increase legroom substantially without changing the layout.

I'm not the biggest fan of the LEAN myself, although the examples on the Avanti 80x are decent with the recline (there's tonnes of legroom anyway in first).

To an extent that depends what angle they're mounted at - in the 196 they're a bit uncomfortably upright, whereas in the 745/755 not quite as much so. The LEAN mounts on a rounded bar so the angle can be adjusted. But mounted at the right angle they're not terrible, quite similar to the Desiro seat. They are just too thick-backed for tight layouts. Had Northern used them on the 195, the airline seats would have made a 153 look spacious - they were absolutely slated at the time for not going with the customer survey but I suspect they realised the issue, fortunately in time.

 

[Archie810]

I know its not a Voyager but here is new liveried 170101 at Crewe.
[Image shows 170101 having been repainted into the new Red/Pink scheme without branding outside Crewe LNWR]

honestly i quite like it, i like the bright red with the cream doors.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

170101 has now received the white "X" on it's front sides. Saw a glimpse of it today at work.

 

[MCR247]

Yes, fair point. They're a bit thicker than Voyager seats but we are talking about 170s here. But it is a missed opportunity to do what Avanti did and increase legroom substantially without changing the layout.

Especially since their 170s are some of the tightest leg room on the network after they refurbished them at the start of the original Arriva franchise

 

[Bletchleyite]

Especially since their 170s are some of the tightest leg room on the network after they refurbished them at the start of the original Arriva franchise

Did they actually add seats in, or are theirs the ex-Midland Mainline units which had impossibly tight seat pitch since built, with an extra row in the middle section compared to the Central Trains (or were they the same?), Chiltern and ScotRail units?

 

[MCR247]

Did they actually add seats in, or are theirs the ex-Midland Mainline units which had impossibly tight seat pitch since built, with an extra row in the middle section compared to the Central Trains (or were they the same?), Chiltern and ScotRail units?

They were ex MML (/1s) and ex central trains (/5s and /6s). They definitely changed the layout on the ex CT units, moving the luggage racks and seat positions. As I remember, London Midland (who got the rest of the CT batch) changed the branding and seat covers etc but left the layout as is

 

[SuperS16v]

Saw this on Facebook, not a bad mockup of what it will look like when finished.

 

[tfw756rider]

Saw this on Facebook, not a bad mockup of what it will look like when finished.

Not a bad mock-up indeed, but I wonder why the creator used a 2002-2005 170 (with the later, bigger lights),

rather than a 1998-2002 170 (with the earlier, smaller lights), which would've been correct for 170101.

 

[43096]

Not a bad mock-up indeed, but I wonder why the creator used a 2002-2005 170 (with the later, bigger lights),

rather than a 1998-2002 170 (with the earlier, smaller lights), which would've been correct for 170101.

Because they’re a designer and not a rail enthusiast?

 

[Discuss223]

Saw this on Facebook, not a bad mockup of what it will look like when finished.

That looks very good, brilliant new livery.

 

[Russel]

Not a bad mock-up indeed, but I wonder why the creator used a 2002-2005 170 (with the later, bigger lights),

rather than a 1998-2002 170 (with the earlier, smaller lights), which would've been correct for 170101.

Probably like me and many others, they had no idea there was a difference!

 

[Bletchleyite]

That looks very good, brilliant new livery.

You reckon? I reckon it looks like a poor ape of Ouigo but without the cheap fares and large amount of capacity.

 

[GhostManDN91]

I'm curious what's it like on the 170s between Birmingham and Cardiff experience wise? Deciding to go on one of them instead of TfW to Cardiff from Crewe.

 

[Discuss223]

I'm curious what's it like on the 170s between Birmingham and Cardiff experience wise? Deciding to go on one of them instead of TfW to Cardiff from Crewe.

Sadly, there is no First Class on CrossCountry Class 170s any longer, though the seating remains until the refurbishment project.

The 18:12 from Birmingham New Street (weekdays) is a Voyager service to Cardiff, so will have First Class accommodation and a Host.

On the 170s, there is an at-seat retail service.

Seating is currently very cramped, especially if you are over 5 foot 10. It's a nice journey through the Gloucestershire mountains and the River Severn.

Hopefully the refurbishment project will improve legroom.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hopefully the refurbishment project will improve legroom.

Unfortunately, due to the use of the thick-backed FISA LEAN seat, it won't. It will be about the same as the metal backed seats (forget who made those) and slightly worse than the Chapmans.

 

[fgwrich]

Unfortunately, due to the use of the thick-backed FISA LEAN seat, it won't. It will be about the same as the metal backed seats (forget who made those) and slightly worse than the Chapmans.

Lazzerini I believe.

 

[Discuss223]

Lazzerini I believe.

Some are Chapmans, some are Lazzerini. The Chapmans have more legroom but less padding and a worse seat pitch for anyone who is tall.

Unfortunately, due to the use of the thick-backed FISA LEAN sea

That's a shame. They're manageable for a hop in to Derby or even Burton but I couldn't squash my legs in all the way to Cardiff Central.

 

[sga962]

Not a bad mock-up indeed, but I wonder why the creator used a 2002-2005 170 (with the later, bigger lights),

rather than a 1998-2002 170 (with the earlier, smaller lights), which would've been correct for 170101.

Looka like it was made with Train Sim World's livery designer in which case it was using the version of the 170 that is in the game

 

[vicbury]

I'm curious what's it like on the 170s between Birmingham and Cardiff experience wise? Deciding to go on one of them instead of TfW to Cardiff from Crewe.

I commute from Lydney on CrossCountry once a week, either to Cardiff or to Bristol via Severn Tunnel Junction, and also travel occasionally to Birmingham. They are almost alway on time, with better punctuality than TfW. They can be very busy, particularly between Cheltenham and Birmingham, but Cardiff to Gloucester is generally okay.

The 170s are comfortable and have nice large windows, and a good HVAC system, I don't think I've ever been on one with broken air conditioning. They are in desperate need of refurbishment but staff are very good.

The only thing holding them back has been the regular cancellations however that seems to have drastically improved since the new year.

 

[GoneSouth]

They are almost alway on time, with better punctuality than TfW.

Eh? They VERY frequently don’t run at all. I assume you mean of the unacceptably low number that do run they generally run in time.

The only thing holding them back has been the regular cancellations however that seems to have drastically improved since the new year.

Well Sunday is an absolute shambles. Give it a try sometime, just ridiculous what they are getting away with.

However, nice trains once they do arrive. The seats need a bit of attention though.

 

[vicbury]

Eh? They VERY frequently don’t run at all. I assume you mean of the unacceptably low number that do run they generally run in time.

Well Sunday is an absolute shambles. Give it a try sometime, just ridiculous what they are getting away with.

However, nice trains once they do arrive. The seats need a bit of attention though.

Yes, I meant the ones that run do run on time. My usual service hasn't been cancelled once since the beginning of December so it's a definite improvement. I can't comment on Sunday services as they don't stop here!

 

[Jacob Porrett]

170101 looks good inside with the new seats. They look very skinny in design.