CrossCountry's Driver Shortage

[JamesT]

But you brought up Sundays when talking about the driver shortage?

So what’s your point, when saying people don’t want to work their Sundays? It obviously matters to you to some degree…

And if it doesn’t matter, then why bring it up?

Surely @Bald Rick was just answering the question asked, why are XC not able to run all their services despite having apparently hired many over the last few years?

 

[Goldfish62]

Personally I doubt I’ll work any more this tax year because I’ll only be getting a bill for extra tax next year. No doubt many at XC are in the same position.

Why not use the money to top up your pension? Protects it from tax that way. Win win situation.

Sorry, bit OT, but I keep seeing this mentioned in various threads.

 

[43066]

Why not use the money to top up your pension? Protects it from tax that way. Win win situation.

Sorry, bit OT, but I keep seeing this mentioned in various threads.

Yep that’s good advice, but it still becomes less appealing to spend long days at work doing overtime only to do that. I expect it’ll change in the new tax year - it’s arguably on topic because quite a few drivers are in this position this year.

Surely @Bald Rick was just answering the question asked, why are XC not able to run all their services despite having apparently hired many over the last few years?

It’s only a partial answer, though. The company has chosen not to bring Sundays inside the week as other TOCs have and, having adopted that business model, you’d expect them to incentivise volunteers, rather than standing by and letting the service collapse.

Now XC are a zombie company paid by the DfT, of course, but the same analysis applies. So blaming it on the drivers (who are under absolutely no obligation to work on their contractual days off) plays into the hands of the other actors who are the ones with the responsibility to the public.

 

[JamesT]

It’s only a partial answer, though. The company has chosen not to bring Sundays inside the week as other TOCs have and, having adopted that business model, you’d expect them to incentivise volunteers, rather than standing by and letting the service collapse.

Now XC are a zombie company paid by the DfT, of course, but the same analysis applies. So blaming it on the drivers (who are under absolutely no obligation to work on their contractual days off) plays into the hands of the other actors who are the ones with the responsibility to the public.

Of course the drivers are under no obligation, but that they aren't working on Sundays when they previously were happy to do so is the root cause. The incentives haven't changed, so therefore the change must be the drivers.

 

[43066]

Of course the drivers are under no obligation, but that they aren't working on Sundays when they previously were happy to do so is the root cause. The incentives haven't changed, so therefore the change must be the drivers.

If the current incentives aren’t generating enough volunteers on any particular day, the company could choose to improve them until they did! That is exactly what would happen at an open access or freight operator.

In reality XC (with the DfT standing behind it) would rather let the service collapse than do so, so that is where the blame lies.

 

[4COR]

Why not use the money to top up your pension? Protects it from tax that way. Win win situation.

And if a higher rate tax payer, it is extremely efficient as you get an increased basic rate allowance as well as the 20% relief into the pension.

I presume drivers are also paid PAYE, so I'm not clear myself (as an outsider) how it results in a tax bill the following year as per comment 144, unless a child benefit repayment perhaps? - either way, you generally don't lose money by earning more, you just get less back for the effort put in, but that's the way that progressive taxation works. It ultimately comes back to how much your time is worth I guess, and whether XC are paying enough to tilt it towards working rest days - clearly not at present after my experience on Sunday!

 

[43066]

I presume drivers are also paid PAYE, so I'm not clear myself (as an outsider) how it results in a tax bill the following year as per comment 144, unless a child benefit repayment perhaps? - either way, you generally don't lose money by earning more, you just get less back for the effort put in, but that's the way that progressive taxation works. It ultimately comes back to how much your time is worth I guess, and whether XC are paying enough to tilt it towards working rest days - clearly not at present after my experience on Sunday!

Because if your expected earnings for the year were (say) £75k but you’ve actually earned £110k due to a £28k back pay payment and overtime worked earlier in the year, your tax code won’t change automatically.

you generally don't lose money by earning more, you just get less back for the effort put in, but that's the way that progressive taxation works.

The problem is the higher marginal tax rate between £100-125k due to loss of personal allowance, so that rest days worked above £100k are worth less than those below.

Put another way, if you plan to work (say) 20 rest days this calendar year, they will be worth more in the next tax year than the current one, so it makes sense to do them after April.

It ultimately comes back to how much your time is worth I guess, and whether XC are paying enough to tilt it towards working rest days - clearly not at present after my experience on Sunday!

Precisely!

 

[Harpo]

In reality XC (with the DfT standing behind it) would rather let the service collapse than do so, so that is where the blame lies.

Exactly. Only managers can change the contract with employees.

 

[PLY2AYS]

Of course the drivers are under no obligation, but that they aren't working on Sundays when they previously were happy to do so is the root cause. The incentives haven't changed, so therefore the change must be the drivers.

To summarise your point: the company isn’t delivering on its contractual obligation, therefore it MUST be the workers not working hard enough.

A rather Dickensian outlook, don’t you think?

Absolutely nothing to do with the shared “free money” mentality, embarrassingly publicised on behalf of Avanti in the last year or so.

 

[Discuss223]

I read on another thread that CrossCountry drivers got a large backpay in the summer of 2024, which is why many of them are reluctant to volunteer for rest day working.

 

[virgintrain1]

Note that Sunday's are committed for XC drivers!

 

[fodphil]

Note that they still cant cover them

 

[Krokodil]

Of course the drivers are under no obligation, but that they aren't working on Sundays when they previously were happy to do so is the root cause. The incentives haven't changed, so therefore the change must be the drivers.

The incentives have effectively decreased in value over time. As the basic wage has grown from BR's poverty wages to something the market has decided that the skills are worth, the overtime has become a smaller proportion of income and as salaries have risen into higher tax brackets any overtime will attract the 40p rate of tax so it will be worth less in take home pay too.

Note that Sunday's are committed for XC drivers!

The other six days are also within contracted hours. Yet they can't reliably cover those either. If XC wants to run a reliable seven-day service, employ seven days' worth of staff, not five-and-a-half!

 

[ThirteenArches]

I know absolutely nothing about drivers' working arrangements, so forgive the question. But do any TOCs try to cover Sundays and other undesirable hours by offering specific contracts - for example, a 3 day week including weekends that earns about the same as a normal full week?

 

[Carlisle]

The incentives have effectively decreased in value over time. As the basic wage has grown from BR's poverty wages to something the market has decided that the skills are worth,

They may well be worth the money but its hardly a market in the sense most would understand or interpret that description aside perhaps from the few FOCs or OA operators.

 

[GoneSouth]

If XC wants to run a reliable seven-day service, employ seven days' worth of staff, not five-and-a-half!

They don’t! They actually couldn’t care less. If it’s cheaper for them to pay any penalties for not running trains than it is to incentivise drivers to actually run them then we might as well just shut the whole system down.

It’s complete nonsense, and those who suffer are the paying passengers. Some of us wouldn’t use the trains if we had a choice given the way they’re run. Very depressing.

 

[dk1]

I know absolutely nothing about drivers' working arrangements, so forgive the question. But do any TOCs try to cover Sundays and other undesirable hours by offering specific contracts - for example, a 3 day week including weekends that earns about the same as a normal full week?

TOCs can only offer what is agreed with unions. Yes a duty manager can offer more hours/off roster for the turn or book a driver off with pay on the Saturday/Monday if they can’t get their hours off but that’s about it. It has to be within perimeters or others will ask for the same rate of pay.

 

[357]

They may well be worth the money but its hardly a market in the sense most would understand or interpret that description aside perhaps from the few FOCs or OA operators.

In certain areas there definitely is competition to attract qualified drivers, moreso before the apprenticeship funding but still to an extent now.

 

[WAB]

I wonder if the new MD (previously a long-standing Royal Mail director) will turn things around. The jokes about things not arriving on time and Sunday service provision do write themselves...

 

[43066]

They may well be worth the money but its hardly a market in the sense most would understand or interpret that description aside perhaps from the few FOCs or OA operators.

Of course it’s a market. Different operators competing for qualified drivers - how would you define it?

The railway under BR, on the other hand, was essentially a perfect monopsony.

 

[Bald Rick]

The other six days are also within contracted hours. Yet they can't reliably cover those either.

How many cancellations have Cross Country had this working week through traincrew shortages?

 

[D1015]

Question. People are saying traincrew shortages - purely driver issues as indepth discussed here, or also to do with train managers and conductors?

 

[Zerothebrake!]

Question. People are saying traincrew shortages - purely driver issues as indepth discussed here, or also to do with train managers and conductors?

A shortage of serviceable sets could also be the problem?

 

[GingerSte]

Apologies if this has been asked and answered before, but...

Is there anything (excluding an XC management decision not to) preventing XC from hiring more drivers? Are there limits imposed by DFT, or agreements made with the unions to limit the number of drivers?

I honestly don't know, and was just wondering.

 

[1000 rounders]

Apologies if this has been asked and answered before, but...

Is there anything (excluding an XC management decision not to) preventing XC from hiring more drivers? Are there limits imposed by DFT, or agreements made with the unions to limit the number of drivers?

I honestly don't know, and was just wondering.

Unions will always favour more drivers, must be DFT who will not carry the code of more drivers

 

[PLY2AYS]

Unions will always favour more drivers, must be DFT who will not carry the code of more drivers

I think historically as well, XC haven’t necessarily trained many drivers and their (up until recently) training facilities are/were fairly limited… but this is all grapevine stuff and probably outdated information, happy to be corrected!

Certainly may have played a role in the past, however.

 

[bleeder4]

Because if your expected earnings for the year were (say) £75k but you’ve actually earned £110k due to a £28k back pay payment and overtime worked earlier in the year, your tax code won’t change automatically.

I hope you realise how incredibly lucky you are to be in that situation. To be such a high earner that you can bandy around numbers like that is a pipe dream for millions of working people, myself included!

 

[Snow1964]

It’s only a partial answer, though. The company has chosen not to bring Sundays inside the week as other TOCs have and, having adopted that business model, you’d expect them to incentivise volunteers, rather than standing by and letting the service collapse.

They might not have chosen that business model, but they have chosen to take on and operate a business that is contracted (with DfT) to operate a minimum level of service 7 days a week

There is a massive inconsistency here, taking the money for operating 7 days a week, then not staffing it to do so (or incentivising staff to volunteer) is blatant rip-off unethical greed

 

[Economist]

Apologies if this has been asked and answered before, but...

Is there anything (excluding an XC management decision not to) preventing XC from hiring more drivers? Are there limits imposed by DFT, or agreements made with the unions to limit the number of drivers?

I honestly don't know, and was just wondering.

Training capacity is often a limiting factor.

Firstly, there's the Rules and Traction courses, for that you need classroom space, simulators and Trainer/Assessors. The latter are usually from the driving grade and require training of their own.

At a depot level, there's Driver Instructors, these require training of their own and there's often agreements has to how many there will be per depot. You also need more Driver Managers if the headcount is increasing significantly.

I do find it astonishing as to how many TOCs don't prepare adequately, if you want to see a study in how not to go about the process look at GTR between 2016 and 2018.

 

[Bald Rick]

Apologies if this has been asked and answered before, but...

Is there anything (excluding an XC management decision not to) preventing XC from hiring more drivers? Are there limits imposed by DFT, or agreements made with the unions to limit the number of drivers?

I honestly don't know, and was just wondering.

AIUI re Crosscountry:

1) Their driver training ‘schools’ have been recently expanded, are full, and are fully booked for the forseeable
2) They have more drivers on the books now now than they ever have had before
3) On the basis that it is Sundays that is the problem, hiring more drivers on top of those already in the process of being trained / hired / forecast to be hired in the coming years won’t solve it - that would just cause there to be more drivers with nothing to do on Monday-Saturday, and little change on Sundays.
4) They have to agree with ASLEF when, and how any drivers can be hired.

They might not have chosen that business model, but they have chosen to take on and operate a business that is contracted (with DfT) to operate a minimum level of service 7 days a week

There is a massive inconsistency here, taking the money for operating 7 days a week, then not staffing it to do so (or incentivising staff to volunteer) is blatant rip-off unethical greed

But they are not ‘taking the money’ for services not operated, in fact it costs them money in lost management fee (the % on costs, as they are not incurring the cost), and lost opportunity for incentive payments.