CrossNorth Programme

[Hb06_]

How large is this "large organisation" to which you allude?

Hi,

Sustainable Transport Midlands is growing at a very healthy rate indeed - see below. We're currently sitting at 14 staff members.



Although I wouldn't be able to comment on specific leads, we are aiming high for official corporate funding and sponsorship by the start of Q2 2023. Any other STM-related concerns specifically can be directed to me at [email protected]. Cheers.

But STM is a crayonista vehicle for a 16 year old with no official status and no access to funding for any of its projects. I wish it well but don't see it making much progress

And my crayonista days are over - we have a team for that now, and their remit spreads far wider than crayons! I'm now leading STM's executive department, making strategic and long-term decisions about the organisation and what we choose to promote externally. We are also registered as a Community Interest Company with a Company Secretary and Board Chairperson.

 

[Bantamzen]

Hi,

Sustainable Transport Midlands is growing at a very healthy rate indeed - see below. We're currently sitting at 14 staff members.

View attachment 129688

Although I wouldn't be able to comment on specific leads, we are aiming high for official corporate funding and sponsorship by the start of Q2 2023. Any other STM-related concerns specifically can be directed to me at [email protected]. Cheers.


And my crayonista days are over - we have a team for that now, and their remit spreads far wider than crayons! I'm now leading STM's executive department, making strategic and long-term decisions about the organisation and what we choose to promote externally. We are also registered as a Community Interest Company with a Company Secretary and Board Chairperson.

You've made a line graph to show that you have grown to 14 people? I'm not being funny here but why? There are branches of fast food franchises that have more staff.

Seriously if you want to demonstrate that you are more than just a group of Crayola wielding enthusiasts, show us some movement on your propositions. That is to say real discussions with the decision makers, the movers & shakers, by which I don't mean a bit of interest from local politicians but contact with DfT, ministers etc. And if this seems harsh it is meant to be. As you can see from this sub-forum there are literally hundreds of ideas drawn on maps, but very, very few make it beyond the Speculation section that this thread has landed in.

 

[WideRanger]

As I see it, we're looking at 3 scenarios.

1) This is a valid and worthwhile idea.

2) This is a flawed idea, but potentially a useful learning experience for the people involved.

3) The proposers are full of exuberant confidence but are way off the mark.

If you think it is 2, then the most productive way to engage is to simply give facts or the benefit of experience, and let the team process and learn from experience. You never know, what they learn from this might help them make crucial contributions to society later.

If you think it is 3, and engaging with it annoys you, don't engage. If it is flawed, it won't happen, so rubbishing it (and being rude or patronising) in a public forum isn't serving a greater good.

Lots of people are pointing out flaws in this idea - some of which are respectful, others not. I can't help thinking that some replies have lost sight of the fact that this idea is well-intentioned (albeit possibly misguided) by a group of enthusiastic young people, who want to make a difference to society. This idea might not be sensible, but who of us can say that we have never had misguided ideas?

Is the sarcasm and the harsh tone in some of the posts here really necessary? I know it can be satisfying to correct people with less experience, but there's a real human cost when done in a way that demeans.

 

[Hb06_]

You've made a line graph to show that you have grown to 14 people? I'm not being funny here but why? There are branches of fast food franchises that have more staff.

Seriously if you want to demonstrate that you are more than just a group of Crayola wielding enthusiasts, show us some movement on your propositions. That is to say real discussions with the decision makers, the movers & shakers, by which I don't mean a bit of interest from local politicians but contact with DfT, ministers etc. And if this seems harsh it is meant to be. As you can see from this sub-forum there are literally hundreds of ideas drawn on maps, but very, very few make it beyond the Speculation section that this thread has landed in.

This graph was pulled from our HR system - I didn’t make it for the specific purpose of posting here.

I agree that to make a change we need to talk to the right people. And we have. I have regular catch ups with the former Rail Minister who also happens to be the MP for Daventry to discuss our scheme, and our LEP, SNTB and the WMRE are inputting into the Daventry project as well as the LA and parish councils.

 

[zwk500]

I agree that to make a change we need to talk to the right people. And we have. I have regular catch ups with the former Rail Minister who also happens to be the MP for Daventry to discuss our scheme, and our LEP, SNTB and the WMRE are inputting into the Daventry project as well as the LA and parish councils.

With respect, the right people are Treasury officials and current DfT ministers.

 

[Bald Rick]

and our LEP, SNTB and the WMRE are inputting into the Daventry project as well as the LA and parish councils.

Out of interest, how / what they inputting? “Thoughts and Prayers”, or Cash?

 

[A0wen]

Out of interest, how / what they inputting? “Thoughts and Prayers”, or Cash?

Given the lack of money in Northants to do basic things like fill a few potholes or funding schools, if they are giving money to schemes like this, I, as a local taxpayer, will be very interested in that and will start hassling my local councillors about their spending priorities.

 

[Hb06_]

With respect, the right people are Treasury officials and current DfT ministers.

And the local MP is the gateway to that.

Out of interest, how / what they inputting? “Thoughts and Prayers”, or Cash?

In the current climate, it’s thoughts and prayers. Cash will come from local and regional government to start. Bear in mind we still haven’t commissioned an SOC.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Cash will come from local and regional government to start.

Is the "will come" part of the above also a "thought and prayer" aspiration in this present economic climate, as already existing reality projects will surely command more chance of any financial input

 

[SargeNpton]

LEP, SNTB, WMRE, LA, SOC

Can you please explain what these abbreviations all mean.

 

[Bald Rick]

LEP, SNTB, WMRE, LA, SOC

Can you please explain what these abbreviations all mean.

Local enterprise partnership (a partnership of local authorities and local business leaders)
Sub National Transport Board
West Midlands Rail Executive (a SNTB)
LA (Local Authority, who will participate in a SNTB)
Strategic Outline Business Case (Should be SOBC)

 

[SargeNpton]

Hi,

Sustainable Transport Midlands is growing at a very healthy rate indeed - see below. We're currently sitting at 14 staff members.

Although I wouldn't be able to comment on specific leads, we are aiming high for official corporate funding and sponsorship by the start of Q2 2023. Any other STM-related concerns specifically can be directed to me at [email protected]. Cheers.


And my crayonista days are over - we have a team for that now, and their remit spreads far wider than crayons! I'm now leading STM's executive department, making strategic and long-term decisions about the organisation and what we choose to promote externally. We are also registered as a Community Interest Company with a Company Secretary and Board Chairperson.

Regarding Sustainable Transport Midlands (previously Sustainable Transport Northamptonshire/Sustainable Transport Holdings/Sustainable Transport Outer Regions/Sustainable Transport England/Sustainable Transport LondonSE/Sustainable Transport Wales).

The sole project mentioned on the STM website is Daventry Transport Development Group, which seems to have dropped a new Daventry Parkway/Weedon railway station - the very idea which is what brought STM's leader to the fore in 2021.

No mention on the website either of STM's involvement with the "East Midlands Commuter Programme", which it unveiled in January 2022, with plans to open 10 new stations.

"Private e-scooter legalisations, the electrification of buses, active travel, and inclusive, accessible fares are just a few things the company hopes to launch." is quoted by the Bromsgrove Standard and other local news websites back in September 2022, as an ambitious STM vision for 2050. Again, no expansion of that plan on the website.

Lots of chatter then, and the ability to get press releases into local newspapers, but then failing to address those ideas in detail in the very place where people would expect to look for them. With its ability to chop and change its focus every few months, you can appreciate why I am sceptical of anything it links its name to.

 

[Hb06_]

Is the "will come" part of the above also a "thought and prayer" aspiration in this present economic climate, as already existing reality projects will surely command more chance of any financial input

In my capacity I can't comment on funding that we are procuring as yet - especially on specific projects which I don't oversee.

Strategic Outline Business Case (Should be SOBC)

SOBC's are called SOC's in the consulting world!

West Midlands Rail Executive (a SNTB)

WMRE is part of Transport for West Midlands, which is part of the West Midlands Combined Authority. The SNTB for the West Midlands is Midlands Connect.

Regarding Sustainable Transport Midlands (previously Sustainable Transport Northamptonshire/Sustainable Transport Holdings/Sustainable Transport Outer Regions/Sustainable Transport England/Sustainable Transport LondonSE/Sustainable Transport Wales).

We weren't formerly Sustainable Transport Holdings etc - we replaced those organisations as one effectively-operated registered company.

The sole project mentioned on the STM website is Daventry Transport Development Group, which seems to have dropped a new Daventry Parkway/Weedon railway station - the very idea which is what brought STM's leader to the fore in 2021.

We are still proposing, as part of our ongoing Options Assessment, a Parkway station at Weedon Bec. However, we believed it was sensible to identify other potential concepts/proposals to improve Daventry's public transport connectivity. Although I founded DTDG/Daventry Parkway Project, I no longer run it directly so the Project Director would know a lot more about this than me.

No mention on the website either of STM's involvement with the "East Midlands Commuter Programme", which it unveiled in January 2022, with plans to open 10 new stations.

Again, I did not lead on this project, but I can say that we suspended EMCP as a result of feedback we received from the wider public. The project has now been split and each sub-project is being analysed internally as we speak. Expect more on this at the start of Q2 2023.

"Private e-scooter legalisations, the electrification of buses, active travel, and inclusive, accessible fares are just a few things the company hopes to launch." is quoted by the Bromsgrove Standard and other local news websites back in September 2022, as an ambitious STM vision for 2050. Again, no expansion of that plan on the website.

That's part of ourVision, the STM vision for the sustainable transport network in the Midlands by 2050. We don't specifically campaign for anything in ourVision - we just ensure that our projects are aligning to those standards and goals we have set.

Hope that helps.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That's part of ourVision, the STM vision for the sustainable transport network in the Midlands by 2050. We don't specifically campaign for anything in ourVision - we just ensure that our projects are aligning to those standards and goals we have set.

Good as it is to hear of Sustainable Transport Midlands, this thread is specific to the CrossNorth Programme and it is that particular programme that should be the focus of discussions on this particular thread.

 

[A0wen]

SOBC's are called SOC's in the consulting world!

There are many posters on these boards who's posts need correction - unfortunately you've picked on one who's don't.

We are still proposing, as part of our ongoing Options Assessment, a Parkway station at Weedon Bec. However, we believed it was sensible to identify other potential concepts/proposals to improve Daventry's public transport connectivity. Although I founded DTDG/Daventry Parkway Project, I no longer run it directly so the Project Director would know a lot more about this than me.

Really ? A "Project Director" in a voluntary organisation of 14 people ? Talk about delusions of grandeur. Just about the most meaningless job title you could use.

I've been managing projects (and have the job title of Project Manager) for over a decade - I'll wager I've forgotten more about how to run an effective project than any of your "Project Directors" actually know. And I've actually delivered a few projects as well.

 

[A0wen]

No mention on the website either of STM's involvement with the "East Midlands Commuter Programme", which it unveiled in January 2022, with plans to open 10 new stations.

Bit in bold

Point of order m'lud. They haven't got "plans" - a plan in delivery terms means you have a signed off business case, sponsors and funding - of which they have none.

I think "unfunded proposals" would more accurate.

 

[zwk500]

There are many posters on these boards who's posts need correction - unfortunately you've picked on one who's don't.

Much as I hate to contradict @Bald Rick, if you look at the DfT website it does appear that at the scale @Hb06_ is working at, the process is indeed for an SOC before an OBC. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/transport-business-case/transport-business-case-guidance. Once it gets into RNEP then you get into SOBCs.

 

[Bantamzen]

Really ? A "Project Director" in a voluntary organisation of 14 people ? Talk about delusions of grandeur. Just about the most meaningless job title you could use.

I've been managing projects (and have the job title of Project Manager) for over a decade - I'll wager I've forgotten more about how to run an effective project than any of your "Project Directors" actually know. And I've actually delivered a few projects as well.

This is partly why I am so cynical about this whole thing. When originally brought to this forum's attention the implementation seemed to be that it was in an advanced stage and that the project leaders were engaged in discussions at a high level. Now it transpires that it is a small group of people talking big, but in some dialogue only with local politicians. And a group that until recently had to scrabble around to find a platform to host their proposals, or to be more accurate ideas. It really doesn't feel very much like an experienced group of planners and engineers with a proposal that would even have DfT and the Treasury replying to. It feels far more like a project for a university course.

My main reason for cynicism is that whilst originally being touted as a better solution than anything NPR might have come up with, and having a name to suggest so, it appears to be more about linking the north west with Piccadilly than providing a new, faster alignment for northern inter city services. A better name might be Cross-Manchester or MancBahn...

 

[Bald Rick]

Much as I hate to contradict @Bald Rick, if you look at the DfT website it does appear that at the scale @Hb06_ is working at, the process is indeed for an SOC before an OBC. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/transport-business-case/transport-business-case-guidance. Once it gets into RNEP then you get into SOBCs.

Hmm. Yes. Good Point.

 

[A0wen]

Much as I hate to contradict @Bald Rick, if you look at the DfT website it does appear that at the scale @Hb06_ is working at, the process is indeed for an SOC before an OBC. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/transport-business-case/transport-business-case-guidance. Once it gets into RNEP then you get into SOBCs.

Which means both are correct - its just that in the end to end process the SOC is early in that process.

For the benefit of other posters who *don't* work in the land of projects:

Outside government the SOC might be called the "problem statement" i.e what is the "problem" this is meant to be addressing along with "finger in the air" estimates. It's a prelude to creating a business case (BC) - and even then the BC procees may not result in a viable project. The purpose of a BC is to see *if* there's a viable project which you can only establish by doing that analysis.

The purpose of the SOC or "problem statement" is, in effect, simply to unlock funding to progress to the next stage of the business case process, in this particular process the SOBC.

Quite alot will fail at the SOC stage - why is all this important? Well for the uninitiated around here it basically means no decisions have been made about routes, deviations, rolling stock, service frequency or fares livery, TOC or any of the other minutiae details they are interested in. There are no shovels on the ground, no materials purchased, no land purchased - nothing, nada.

Too many get excited when they hear the words "business case" and think things are much closer to delivery than they actually are. Not aided by "campaigners" running off to the local rag or local radio claiming x, y and z is happening which the dim local journos don't properly fact check and don't explain to their readers or listeners what the process actually is and the rates of such proposals ending up as actual projects for delivery is quite small.

 

[zwk500]

SOBC's are called SOC's in the consulting world!

In the consulting world, SOBCs are called SOBCs. The DfT appear to have split the SOBC into 2 separate phases (the SOC and then the OBC), presumably to save time in filtering out the more maniacal proposals by being able to throw out the strategic case without needing to go into the financials.
Different project flows still use SOBCs, and when consultants write them they call them SOBCs.

We are still proposing, as part of our ongoing Options Assessment, a Parkway station at Weedon Bec. However, we believed it was sensible to identify other potential concepts/proposals to improve Daventry's public transport connectivity. Although I founded DTDG/Daventry Parkway Project, I no longer run it directly so the Project Director would know a lot more about this than me.

You shouldn't be proposing anything if you are still in Option selection . Either Weedon Bec is on option you are consulting on, or it's a proposal you are taking forward to the next stage.

Either way, putting a station on the Weedon route is not a particularly sensible idea from either a capacity or financial view even post-HS2, and you'd be far better off pursuing integrated bus services between Daventry and Northampton for southbound traffic and Daventry and Rugby (maybe Rugby Parkway) for northbound traffic.

 

[MattRat]

My main reason for cynicism is that whilst originally being touted as a better solution than anything NPR might have come up with, and having a name to suggest so, it appears to be more about linking the north west with Piccadilly than providing a new, faster alignment for northern inter city services. A better name might be Cross-Manchester or MancBahn...

Cross Manchester would be more to do with Manchester commuter trains, like Crossrail. This proposal appears to be for intercity trains.

Which is another point against the proposal, as it wouldn't actually achieve what it set out to do, even if built.

 

[Bald Rick]

We are still proposing, as part of our ongoing Options Assessment, a Parkway station at Weedon Bec. However, we believed it was sensible to identify other potential concepts/proposals to improve Daventry's public transport connectivity. Although I founded DTDG/Daventry Parkway Project, I no longer run it directly so the Project Director would know a lot more about this than me.

What does the options assessment for Weedon Parkway say about the challenge of building station platforms on short radii curves with (IIRC) 125mm of cant applied?

 

[A0wen]

What does the options assessment for Weedon Parkway say about the challenge of building station platforms on short radii curves with (IIRC) 125mm of cant applied?

Surely you'll just straighten the curves, after all Weedon used to have a station...... (I am joking for the avoidance of doubt).

 

[6Gman]

Do any of these 14 staff draw a salary?

 

[Bantamzen]

Cross Manchester would be more to do with Manchester commuter trains, like Crossrail. This proposal appears to be for intercity trains.

Which is another point against the proposal, as it wouldn't actually achieve what it set out to do, even if built.

And that is my point, its a supposed proposal to improve inter city services, but the most expensive bit points in the wrong direction

 

[A0wen]

And that is my point, its a supposed proposal to improve inter city services, but the most expensive bit points in the wrong direction

Because the method they've used to arrive at a solution is at best flawed and at worst wrong.

They've come at this by identifying a solution they like and working backwards to justify it - which is why it doesn't make sense.

Whereas if you start from the requirement or objective - in this case it could be "improve suburban rail transport in Manchester" from there you'd refine it by understanding which journeys needed improving i.e. is it worse to / from one area, what are the constraints etc eventually you'd have a clear requirement. From there you can develop options to resolve and match each of these to the requirements - and identify the 'best' i.e. most appropriate solution.

 

[Hb06_]

Really ? A "Project Director" in a voluntary organisation of 14 people ? Talk about delusions of grandeur. Just about the most meaningless job title you could use.

I work in the consulting sector full-time - I can't run a project and a business at the same time. So I delegated my control of Daventry Transport Development Group to one of my highly-skilled Board Directors.

You shouldn't be proposing anything if you are still in Option selection . Either Weedon Bec is on option you are consulting on, or it's a proposal you are taking forward to the next stage.

Either way, putting a station on the Weedon route is not a particularly sensible idea from either a capacity or financial view even post-HS2, and you'd be far better off pursuing integrated bus services between Daventry and Northampton for southbound traffic and Daventry and Rugby (maybe Rugby Parkway) for northbound traffic.

We're proposing 12 interventions and we need to identify which one(s) would be strategically appropriate to be taken forward. I could have phrased that better.

The latter - this is why we're carrying out an options assessment . Improving bus and active travel provision is being explored by my Project Director in the OA.

Do any of these 14 staff draw a salary?

Not as yet, although my Chief Financial Officer and I are currently in talks about this. Our staff work incredibly well and they should be recognised for their work long-term especially since they are currently unpaid. Watch this space.