Crossrail - Construction updates and progress towards opening (now expected 24 May 2022)

[rd749249]

Station Domestic Wiring, not Traction Power

Might explain why it took ages to get the TV aerial installed

 

[Horizon22]

Is this because they need to wait for a full timetable change to implement the full service in the West?

Yes it needs a complete rewrite. From some contacts I think early March is rather ambitious (although possible at a push). May seems more likely.

 

[reddragon]

So the push is on to open on March 6th, at present less Bond Street, Canary Wharf, and Abbey Wood. There are potential issues elsewhere too. Doing so would delay Canary Wharf & Bond Street, but I assume the route would be cut short or that works are unaffected by train operations at Abbey Wood.

Opening in May as seems preferred & will allow 24 train testing and adequate completion works to open Canary Wharf & Abbey Wood thus not delaying the next phases.

Of course a hybrid solution may be a target with weekday or short day operations to enable works / testing to continue at night / weekends.

I'd say still any date from March 6th to June 30th is possible, but the options are narrowing!

 

[JonathanH]

I'd say still any date from March 6th to June 30th is possible, but the options are narrowing!

Later dates are presumably still possible as well - eg the September or December timetable changes?

 

[reddragon]

Later dates are presumably still possible as well - eg the September or December timetable changes?

The latter ones would have job security issues for too many!

 

[75A]

As someone who is looking in, and having followed it from it's inception, I think April 1st would be the perfect date.

 

[reddragon]

As someone who is looking in, and having followed it from it's inception, I think April 1st would be the perfect date.

The perfect date to announce as the opening but for nothing to happen other than an April Fools! sign up

 

[Bald Rick]

Later dates are presumably still possible as well - eg the September or December timetable changes?

no need to be on a timetable change date for Paddington - Abbey Wood services. They are all in the timetable anyway.

 

[JonathanH]

no need to be on a timetable change date for Paddington - Abbey Wood services. They are all in the timetable anyway.

I guess not - does it need to be on a period end date for financial purposes?

 

[Bald Rick]

I guess not - does it need to be on a period end date for financial purposes?

I don’t know, but I doubt it - as timetables change dates aren’t aligned to period end dates.

 

[matt_world2004]

If its the domestic wiring would it effect the station being used for crossrail services the station is open for southeastern services already and I would have thought the domestic rewiring would have effected that too

 

[hwl]

Target date to open = March 6th. To do so would get the railway running at its earliest date but would delay late running stations from opening, such as Woolwich / Bond Street / Abbey Wood and delay GE services to Shenfield & GW services by a lot.

Best current date to open all in stages by not delaying through running or late stations = Mid June

Down to earth plan - start timetabled running in May, open to passengers when ready maybe with reduced operating hours.

There are 4 potential permutations on Bond Street:
a) No Crossrail services stop initially
b) Crossrail interchange with tube and use of existing station surface elements only (works with low passenger numbers e.g. Covid and Abbey Wood - Paddington only)
c) Crossrail interchange and one new entrance / exit only
d) Crossrail interchange and both new entrance / exits

Given the progress and different level of outstanding work required for the 2 new entrances then c) is probably the most likely for "middle of window" service start dates which are the most likely

 

[Taunton]

No link to hand but as I understand the goal posts moved on wiring standards between being specified/built and sign off required - similar to the extensive remedial works that have held up Canary Wharf station (which was by far the earliest to be substantially completed, yet one of the last for sign off)

That's not actually correct. The work at Canary Wharf, including some quite substantial elements like the escalators apparently, was fully completed wholly to spec. Canary Wharf Contractors Ltd, who managed and oversaw this, are not amateurs at this sort of thing. It was signed off and paid for in what, 2014? What subsequently happened is Crossrail themselves changed the spec and the goalposts, and I believe there was also a gap that although they signed off the work as complete, they didn't do the paperwork to take it forward to being a completed station, and when they did things had changed. That's why you always do these two steps together. There's a perfectly straightforward way to prevent being hit mid-construction with wasted costs for design code changes, which Crossrail, and their legions of "professional consultants", didn't follow. Not only that, nobody spotted it for years afterwards.

Canary Wharf are extremely hacked off over it because of the opening delay. The retail tenants have all had to have their rentals etc renegotiated downwards. And how on earth can there STILL now be works outstanding at Canary Wharf, in 2022, which are preventing opening now. That's 8 years since CWCL finished it.

 

[hwl]

That's not actually correct. The work at Canary Wharf, including some quite substantial elements like the escalators apparently, was fully completed wholly to spec. Canary Wharf Contractors Ltd, who managed and oversaw this, are not amateurs at this sort of thing. It was signed off and paid for in what, 2014? What subsequently happened is Crossrail themselves changed the spec and the goalposts, and I believe there was also a gap that although they signed off the work as complete, they didn't do the paperwork to take it forward to being a completed station, and when they did things had changed. That's why you always do these two steps together. There's a perfectly straightforward way to prevent being hit mid-construction with wasted costs for design code changes, which Crossrail, and their legions of "professional consultants", didn't follow. Not only that, nobody spotted it for years afterwards.

Canary Wharf are extremely hacked off over it because of the opening delay. The retail tenants have all had to have their rentals etc renegotiated downwards. And how on earth can there STILL now be works outstanding at Canary Wharf, in 2022, which are preventing opening now. That's 8 years since CWCL finished it.

Canary Wharf were desperate to get the retail element open so made some of their own design choices before the Crossrail specs were finalised (or due to be finalised). As the Canary Wharf work was contribution in lieu of direct funding they had every incentive to minimise costs.

So for example the escalators they chose were shopping centre duty ones rather than TfL specification duty ones. There shouldn't have been any surprise that the Crossrail spec when finalised would be similar to TfL/LU spec.

 

[InOban]

There are 4 potential permutations on Bond Street:
a) No Crossrail services stop initially
b) Crossrail interchange with tube and use of existing station surface elements only (works with low passenger numbers e.g. Covid and Abbey Wood - Paddington only)
c) Crossrail interchange and one new entrance / exit only
d) Crossrail interchange and both new entrance / exits

Given the progress and different level of outstanding work required for the 2 new entrances then c) is probably the most likely for "middle of window" service start dates which are the most likely

Previous progress statements have stated that Bond St is or will be at a status where it can be used for emergency evacuation but not in normal service.

 

[matt_world2004]

Can't see bond Street becoming interchange only for crossrail people would just exit through the jubilee and central line .which could cause crowding issues.

However I could see it opening with the less than specified amount of entrance and exits given that suppressed covid demand and the lower frequency would mean lower than anticipated footfall.

 

[hwl]

Can't see bond Street becoming interchange only for crossrail people would just exit through the jubilee and central line .which could cause crowding issues.

However I could see it opening with the less than specified amount of entrance and exits given that suppressed covid demand and the lower frequency would mean lower than anticipated footfall.

My personal expectation is c) give recent mk1 eyeballing unless the rest get horribly delayed.

I can't see train reliability improving at a sufficient rate for early in the window opening.

Previous progress statements have stated that Bond St is or will be at a status where it can be used for emergency evacuation but not in normal service.

Things have moved on recently with different options for different circumstances being though about.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Station Domestic Wiring, not Traction Power

No link to hand but as I understand the goal posts moved on wiring standards between being specified/built and sign off required - similar to the extensive remedial works that have held up Canary Wharf station (which was by far the earliest to be substantially completed, yet one of the last for sign off)

quite frankly if its only just come to light that Abbey Wood wiring is defective its yet another example of this over bloated expensive organisation failing to deliver on basic project management and engineering assurance.

 

[59CosG95]

quite frankly if its only just come to light that Abbey Wood wiring is defective its yet another example of this over bloated expensive organisation failing to deliver on basic project management and engineering assurance.

It's hard to consider something as 'defective' if the standards for acceptance were changed...

 

[reddragon]

It's hard to consider something as 'defective' if the standards for acceptance were changed...

My understanding is that they followed the wrong set of standards and that the standards did not change.

Domestic, commercial, NR and TfL follow different standards and they failed to follow the TfL standards as instructed thus preventing integration with fire, control & communication systems.

No issue on stations managed by NR, big issue on stations managed by TfL.

See not so secret the March 6th date

Will Crossrail be open in less than two months? - Murky Depths

Will Crossrail make a March opening date as hoped internally within Transport for London, or will they delay given passenger numbers?

www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk

It’s been an open secret for some time within Transport for London that a 6th March opening date for Crossrail has been the goal over recent months.

 

[mr_jrt]

Seems like ideally that you would want national standards for that sort of thing. Could the pair of them not sit down and work out a way towards that goal for the future?

 

[JonathanH]

See not so secret the March 6th date

Not so secret but a 'goal' rather than a commitment.

If you quoted the next bit of that blog posting, then May might seem more likely. Ultimately, it is an opinion piece.

Given current low passenger numbers, would TfL want to open in March, carry few passengers and hamper long term reliability even if they are in a position to open?

It’s a decision that won’t be taken lightly, and they may deem it better to play it safe and wait until May. That would still meet the latest public date of the first half of 2022.

 

[Alex McKenna]

Wasn't there a TV documentary about them installing the escalators at Canary Wharf? Have these been removed and replaced? It all looked like quite a performance.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

My understanding is that they followed the wrong set of standards and that the standards did not change.
Domestic, commercial, NR and TfL follow different standards and they failed to follow the TfL standards as instructed thus preventing integration with fire, control & communication systems.
No issue on stations managed by NR, big issue on stations managed by TfL.

Reminiscent of events at Berlin Brandenburg Airport, which took nearly a decade to resolve the wiring and fire protection standards issues.

 

[mark-h]

Domestic, commercial, NR and TfL follow different standards

Seems like ideally that you would want national standards for that sort of thing.

The building regulations (spit into domestic and commercial) set out the minimum standards that need to be met. TfL and NR are both able to set their own standards for their stations as long as they are not lower than those set out in the building standards.

The intensive nature of stations with long opening hours and high levels of disruption when equipment fails will result in TfL specification being higher than the minimum.

TfL will also want some level of equipment standardisation across their estate to make operation and servicing easier. Unlike in the building regulations, TfL can specify specific products/manufacturers to be used based on their past experience and the ability to interface with central systems. This will be particularly important for the control, monitoring and alarm systems.

 

[mrmartin]

The building regulations (spit into domestic and commercial) set out the minimum standards that need to be met. TfL and NR are both able to set their own standards for their stations as long as they are not lower than those set out in the building standards.

The intensive nature of stations with long opening hours and high levels of disruption when equipment fails will result in TfL specification being higher than the minimum.

TfL will also want some level of equipment standardisation across their estate to make operation and servicing easier. Unlike in the building regulations, TfL can specify specific products/manufacturers to be used based on their past experience and the ability to interface with central systems. This will be particularly important for the control, monitoring and alarm systems.

I understand that but I cannot understand for the life of me how this happened. Did TfL not look/sign off the initial specifications? I can sort of understand how it happened at CW but to happen at another station...?!

 

[reddragon]

I understand that but I cannot understand for the life of me how this happened. Did TfL not look/sign off the initial specifications? I can sort of understand how it happened at CW but to happen at another station...?!

Let me explain for you!

Crossrail was split into areas, this one was SE London. Deliverables were split into teams, stations, tracks, OLE etc. I met scoping teams early on, design teams, delivery teams, construction teams etc. Each time there were new people, it was like starting from scratch each time, no information was passed over to them.

Scoping teams were great but as details were secret it was a guessing game working on the project. Design teams could hear but did not listen, some very aggressive individuals in management there, construction / delivery teams were inexperienced, in a rush, did not challenge and needed heavy direction on occasions.

Overall engagement was awful, so I can bet they were told but did not listen, did not ask & did what they thought they should. I can tell you of the frustration in watching advice ignored & the consequences.

I fear HS2 is becoming a repeat!

 

[MotCO]

Let me explain for you!

Crossrail was split into areas, this one was SE London. Deliverables were split into teams, stations, tracks, OLE etc. I met scoping teams early on, design teams, delivery teams, construction teams etc. Each time there were new people, it was like starting from scratch each time, no information was passed over to them.

Scoping teams were great but as details were secret it was a guessing game working on the project. Design teams could hear but did not listen, some very aggressive individuals in management there, construction / delivery teams were inexperienced, in a rush, did not challenge and needed heavy direction on occasions.

Overall engagement was awful, so I can bet they were told but did not listen, did not ask & did what they thought they should. I can tell you of the frustration in watching advice ignored & the consequences.

I fear HS2 is becoming a repeat!

What an (expensive) recipe for disaster. How not to lead a project! There should be a centrally led expert team running the show - but will 'lessons be learnt' if ever Crossrail 2 takes off?

 

[reddragon]

What an (expensive) recipe for disaster. How not to lead a project! There should be a centrally led expert team running the show - but will 'lessons be learnt' if ever Crossrail 2 takes off?

There were many excellent teams on Crossrail but sadly some very poor ones bedevilled with changes in resource / team / deliverers. Stations suffered the most, despite good people; time, resource & poor information made their jobs undeliverable in the way planned.

 

[matt_world2004]

Could part of the confusion have been that during its construction Abbey wood was a network rail owned station.