Crossrail - operating discussion and opening day 24th May

[rd749249]

Whilst there are three dedicated turnbacks at Westbourne Park, the east and westbounds can also be used to the same effect, creating extra capacity if required. I have been turned around on the eastbound once whilst in service.

 

[railfan99]

Given the Elizabeth Line's operation for a while, notwithstanding the need to 'change at Paddington', how is patronage perceived? Is it 'depressed' in what were traditionally the Mon-Fri peak periods due to many working from home? Is patronage in the offpeak on weekdays, Saturdays and Sundays pleasing?

Forgetting about finances and cost blowouts, is London and English media neutral, positive or negative re EL usage?

Did it cope well with your wonderful special day to honour Her Majesty? (No one does pomp like the British).

I am in Australia, but hope to travel on it fairly soon.

 

[James H]

Yesterday at the Tottenham Court Road Dean Street exit was the busiest I have seen so far, with a real crowd at the top of the escalators to get out of the barriers

 

[samuelmorris]

Given the Elizabeth Line's operation for a while, notwithstanding the need to 'change at Paddington', how is patronage perceived? Is it 'depressed' in what were traditionally the Mon-Fri peak periods due to many working from home? Is patronage in the offpeak on weekdays, Saturdays and Sundays pleasing?

Forgetting about finances and cost blowouts, is London and English media neutral, positive or negative re EL usage?

Did it cope well with your wonderful special day to honour Her Majesty? (No one does pomp like the British).

I am in Australia, but hope to travel on it fairly soon.

It doesn't run on Sundays yet.

Some press commentary that it isn't busy enough to pay its way but not a lot that I've seen publicly. Now that the main section is open (barring Bond St) the press seem to have left it alone.

It's not crowded yet really, but I wouldn't say it was quiet either. It appears quieter than it actually is due to the oversized platforms and corridors built to handle the kind of crush loads we've still not really had back since the pandemic.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

It's not crowded yet really, but I wouldn't say it was quiet either. It appears quieter than it actually is due to the oversized platforms and corridors built to handle the kind of crush loads we've still not really had back since the pandemic.

A good point. Whenever I've used The Elizabeth Line, the trains have been pretty full for the time of day but the platforms are so long and spacious that there is no impression of the line being busy.

 

[matt_world2004]

Went to a meeting the other day where it was discussed that Elizabeth line revenues are 210% of what was budgeted IE they are making double what they expected.

They don't expect this to be sustained as the novelty wares off but other factors like the introduction of gatelines probably have had a significant impact

 

[Mikw]

At the moment i'd chose to go on it if possible, due to the ice cold air conditioning, i'm sure i'm not alone

 

[Mikey C]

It doesn't run on Sundays yet.

Some press commentary that it isn't busy enough to pay its way but not a lot that I've seen publicly. Now that the main section is open (barring Bond St) the press seem to have left it alone.

It's not crowded yet really, but I wouldn't say it was quiet either. It appears quieter than it actually is due to the oversized platforms and corridors built to handle the kind of crush loads we've still not really had back since the pandemic.

Also because the trains are so much longer and broader than Underground trains, they seem quite empty even when taking the sort of load that would be noticeable elsewhere.

 

[Horizon22]

Travelling around the network today, it seems like TfL have updated their announcements to exclude the word ‘line’ after Elizabeth. On the Central line today, announcements would say ‘change here for the Circle, District and Elizabeth lines’.

Seems sensible.

It's always been like that since the rebrand on the Central line.

 

[samuelmorris]

It's always been like that since the rebrand on the Central line.

It goes a bit deeper than that, I've noticed the word 'line' is being dropped altogether from a few automated announcements. 'Change for Central and Northern' at Tottenham Court Road and ending the sentence there does sound a little odd.

Also because the trains are so much longer and broader than Underground trains, they seem quite empty even when taking the sort of load that would be noticeable elsewhere.

While this is true, having used the exact same 345s on my local line for 5 years now, I've experienced them in pre-pandemic crush load scenarios and I've yet to see anything like that in the Elizabeth line core yet.

 

[AM9]

While this is true, having used the exact same 345s on my local line for 5 years now, I've experienced them in pre-pandemic crush load scenarios and I've yet to see anything like that in the Elizabeth line core yet.

I suspect that through running will change everything. There must be some reluctance to switch from high to low level for westbound journeys to Farringdon, Holborn and even Oxford Circus - especially as passengers have been changing at Stratford for years. Coming in from GWML origins, it might be a bit more worthwhile as all the XR core trains are arriving empty at Paddington.
If through running is in place before the end of the year, I suspect that the loadings will ramp up very quickly. In addition, there will be quite a few transfers to TL at Farringdon as the transfer from the western end of the XR platforms will be quite easy.

 

[Mojo]

It goes a bit deeper than that, I've noticed the word 'line' is being dropped altogether from a few automated announcements. 'Change for Central and Northern' at Tottenham Court Road and ending the sentence there does sound a little odd.

That has been the same announcements on the Class 345s since the central operating section has opened. The announcements on the Central line again have erroneously dropped 'line' from the announcements since they were reprogrammed; they also fail to announce in accordance with the hierachy which says LU lines should come first.

Given the Elizabeth Line's operation for a while, notwithstanding the need to 'change at Paddington', how is patronage perceived? Is it 'depressed' in what were traditionally the Mon-Fri peak periods due to many working from home? Is patronage in the offpeak on weekdays, Saturdays and Sundays pleasing?

I've found it much busier than I'd have expected during the daytimes, but the evenings (post 9p.m.) seem exceptionally quiet. I haven't travelled yet during the post-theatre rush which is around 21.45 - 22.30 so not sure how busy it gets around Tottenham Court Road at this time.

 

[Horizon22]

That has been the same announcements on the Class 345s since the central operating section has opened. The announcements on the Central line again have erroneously dropped 'line' from the announcements since they were reprogrammed; they also fail to announce in accordance with the hierachy which says LU lines should come first.


I've found it much busier than I'd have expected during the daytimes, but the evenings (post 9p.m.) seem exceptionally quiet. I haven't travelled yet during the post-theatre rush which is around 21.45 - 22.30 so not sure how busy it gets around Tottenham Court Road at this time.

I've seen it very busy at Tottenham Court Road around last trains.

I suspect that through running will change everything. There must be some reluctance to switch from high to low level for westbound journeys to Farringdon, Holborn and even Oxford Circus - especially as passengers have been changing at Stratford for years. Coming in from GWML origins, it might be a bit more worthwhile as all the XR core trains are arriving empty at Paddington.
If through running is in place before the end of the year, I suspect that the loadings will ramp up very quickly. In addition, there will be quite a few transfers to TL at Farringdon as the transfer from the western end of the XR platforms will be quite easy.

The interchange from Paddington whilst not a long walk isn't very plesant as you've got to the cross the entire concourse perpendicular to people getting to platforms. Getting off at the rear and walking over the bridge and down to Platform 1 isn't much quicker either. Liverpool St is better, but certainly longer.

But yes direct trains into C. London will indeed tip over people who are still transfering at say Ealing Broadway & Stratford via almost adjacent platform interchanges onto the Central (although the Central has seen some slight pax decreases).

 

[samuelmorris]

I've seen it very busy at Tottenham Court Road around last trains.


The interchange from Paddington whilst not a long walk isn't very plesant as you've got to the cross the entire concourse perpendicular to people getting to platforms. Getting off at the rear and walking over the bridge and down to Platform 1 isn't much quicker either. Liverpool St is better, but certainly longer.

But yes direct trains into C. London will indeed tip over people who are still transfering at say Ealing Broadway & Stratford via almost adjacent platform interchanges onto the Central (although the Central has seen some slight pax decreases).

Yeah the interchange at Liverpool Street was a little disappointing as, while I've used it as a useful way to get to Moorgate NR without having to go outside, it's a really long walk - if you go from the rear end of a train coming into Liverpool Street mainline and and want to be at the Moorgate-end of a Crossrail train it's almost double digit minutes walking time and that negates some of the time saved by using the line in the first place. The half-frequency of course doesn't tremendously help matters at the moment, neither does the relatively early drop-off to quarter-frequency at night at 10:30pm.
Certainly, the idea of using the fast GA services to Liverpool Street and changing there is of minimal utility versus just sitting all the way through all stations without getting off. Changing onto the Elizabeth Line at Stratford may work well but it's not exactly the most pleasant of interchanges at peak time.

 

[Horizon22]

Yeah the interchange at Liverpool Street was a little disappointing as, while I've used it as a useful way to get to Moorgate NR without having to go outside, it's a really long walk - if you go from the rear end of a train coming into Liverpool Street mainline and and want to be at the Moorgate-end of a Crossrail train it's almost double digit minutes walking time and that negates some of the time saved by using the line in the first place. The half-frequency of course doesn't tremendously help matters at the moment, neither does the relatively early drop-off to quarter-frequency at night at 10:30pm.
Certainly, the idea of using the fast GA services to Liverpool Street and changing there is of minimal utility versus just sitting all the way through all stations without getting off. Changing onto the Elizabeth Line at Stratford may work well but it's not exactly the most pleasant of interchanges at peak time.

Can't say I've ever done the Moorgate interchange, but I can do Liverpool St from train to barrier line in around 5 minutes, but I'm a relatively young and healthy make and I walk briskly down the escalators. For most people you'd probably be nudging towards 10, especially exiting as people aren't always where they need to be to exit.

Stratford may be suitable but as you say the interchange is sub-optimal.
Paddington will get better without the crossfall of passengers in all directions.
Liverpool Street will be interesting because there's still a lot of users from East London & Essex who will still want to get off at Liverpool St who will actually soon have a more incovenient station to get off at instead of at almost street level!

 

[ThameslinkUser]

While this is true, having used the exact same 345s on my local line for 5 years now, I've experienced them in pre-pandemic crush load scenarios and I've yet to see anything like that in the Elizabeth line core yet.

Definitely 9 cars and not 7?

 

[LB2]

Currently the entire central section has ground to a halt due to a faulty train. Think this is the first such instance?

 

[Horizon22]

Currently the entire central section has ground to a halt due to a faulty train. Think this is the first such instance?

Don't think it's the first. I was travelling on it at the same time and it's wrong to say "the entire central section" ground to a halt - eastbound services were fine for a reasonable while, but with 2 tracks it only takes so long before it backs up. it was Westbound due to a train failing at Custom House and then it returned empty to Abbey Wood to clear the line.

 

[matt_world2004]

When the core and eastern and western ends are joined up will it give more opportunities for service recovery or will it make it worse

 

[ijmad]

When the core and eastern and western ends are joined up will it give more opportunities for service recovery or will it make it worse

There quite a few crossovers west of Straford and another between Stratford and Maryland that might be helpful, although the signalling there can't support the whole core service frequency

 

[iphone76]

Today was the first time I was in the COS as a driver when it all went wrong with passengers. I was quite impressed with the service recovery vs what I had seen during trial running/ops. I left Abbey Wood around 25 minutes late at one point and with much shorter dwell times and maximum line speed running, I was back on time within two rounds.

Something I really noticed was how people really don't move along the train. The 2nd and 3rd carriages westbound were absolutely rammed whilst all the others had seats available. I did suggest via the PA may wish to move. No one did. Lol

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I have said it once and I’ll say it again.
Get rid of the useless, pointless irritant TfL staff on the platforms yelling into the microphone. It’s unbearable, and adds no further information to what the already very clear automated announcements offer.

 

[Horizon22]

When the core and eastern and western ends are joined up will it give more opportunities for service recovery or will it make it worse

Possibly worse simply because the frequency through the central section will be more intense so if anything goes wrong there it has wider reaching consequences.

Today was the first time I was in the COS as a driver when it all went wrong with passengers. I was quite impressed with the service recovery vs what I had seen during trial running/ops. I left Abbey Wood around 25 minutes late at one point and with much shorter dwell times and maximum line speed running, I was back on time within two rounds.

Something I really noticed was how people really don't move along the train. The 2nd and 3rd carriages westbound were absolutely rammed whilst all the others had seats available. I did suggest via the PA may wish to move. No one did. Lol

I don’t think it helps all the entrances are the far ends of platforms for the most part either; unless you’re getting off at Paddington, that’s where you’ll want to be.

 

[Mikey C]

I don’t think it helps all the entrances are the far ends of platforms for the most part either; unless you’re getting off at Paddington, that’s where you’ll want to be.

And with the line being so quick, people far prefer to stand for 10 minutes than walk along the platform to the middle of the train, then walk back along the platform at their destination

 

[Class 170101]

A good railway rule: "Whenever a season is mentioned, presume opening is the last date of said season."

Never Trust a Forecast Based on the Seasons - says Roger Ford

 

[Horizon22]

Never Trust a Forecast Based on the Seasons - says Roger Ford

That’s the one!

 

[Acton1991]

I have said it once and I’ll say it again.
Get rid of the useless, pointless irritant TfL staff on the platforms yelling into the microphone. It’s unbearable, and adds no further information to what the already very clear automated announcements offer.

Can we start a petition please?!

 

[Bald Rick]

A good railway rule: "Whenever a season is mentioned, presume opening is the last date of said season."

Never Trust a Forecast Based on the Seasons - says Roger Ford

Informed Sources Third Law:

‘Always mistrust schedules based on the seasons‘

 

[Acton1991]

Has anyone else noticed the onboard screens seem to have a malfunction between Acton Mainline and Paddington, in both directions. They seem to go blank, not display anything and the announcements also fail. It then kicks back into life. Strange.

 

[ijmad]

(Never mind, silly thought)