Crossrail to Reading Announcement

[transmanche]

Is it legal for them to refuse an open access operator?

Which law states they have to accept one?

 

[ClevedonYellow]

Great news, it should see the extension of Oyster all the way out to Reading. Obviously early days yet, but I hope it'll be accepted on FGW fasts to Paddington as well.

I think FGW will be looking at not stopping Fasts at Reading to improve a number of journey times and increase capacity to other parts of the network and not just to Reading. Do remember these are Long distance trains and not commuter.

 

[TEW]

It's only every going to be a limited number of fast services which don't call at Reading. It's not just demand from Reading to London that fast trains serve but also demand for long distance passengers in to Reading and for long distance passengers changing at Reading, it's a huge interchange.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I think FGW will be looking at not stopping Fasts at Reading to improve a number of journey times and increase capacity to other parts of the network and not just to Reading. Do remember these are Long distance trains and not commuter.

I think that would be a huge mistake. They would lose out on a lot of revenue and with the improvements at Reading the difference in timings would surely be minimal. Reading to London sat on longitudinal seats for around hour could be quite an ordeal!

 

[Class377/5]

I suppose there is always the option for an Open Access operator to run a single fast service from Oxford to Bank in the morning.

Any unit that operates through the Crossrail Core will require the same door spacing (platform edge doors make this a must and dwell times mean less than 3 doors a side would possibly kill capacity), unit must be interoperable with the ATO and be cleared to do so yet Crossrail is going to be a 24hr railway at least at weekends so the only real units to use would be a modified 345 with better seating.

Open access, not forbidden but very very unlikely.

 

[LexyBoy]

I think FGW will be looking at not stopping Fasts at Reading to improve a number of journey times and increase capacity to other parts of the network and not just to Reading. Do remember these are Long distance trains and not commuter.

I don't think they will, as they'll want to protect their revenue from Reading-London, which has the highest £/mile pricing on the FGW network. Plus, as mentioned above, Reading is an important destination and hub in its own right. When I get off my evening (London-bound, from Cheltenham or Cardiff) train at Reading there's around 50-100 others getting off at Reading, with perhaps 2-300 continuing on the train.

Classing services rigidly as "long distance" or "commuter" doesn't really work - how many passengers on XC into Bristol are commuting? How many passengers from Chippenham (in either direction) are commuting?

In other news, Boris Johnson further confirms himself an A-grade plonker:

“I am thrilled that the people of Reading and Twyford will be able to take advantage of Crossrail, putting them on the doorstep of London’s main employment centres by directly linking them to the City and West End in world-class style.”

 

[davetheguard]

It's only every going to be a limited number of fast services which don't call at Reading. It's not just demand from Reading to London that fast trains serve but also demand for long distance passengers in to Reading and for long distance passengers changing at Reading, it's a huge interchange.

And of course many of those "long distance passengers" are long distance commuters.

And with as many people commuting in to Reading as out of it, I can't see many trains missing Reading out, it's just too important a traffic centre: for work; shopping; and interchange; peak & off peak.

 

[swt_passenger]

And of course many of those "long distance passengers" are long distance commuters.

And with as many people commuting in to Reading as out of it, I can't see many trains missing Reading out, it's just too important a traffic centre: for work; shopping; and interchange; peak & off peak.

The draft IEP timetables that were knocking around last year definitely showed the two fast Bristol services (via Parkway) as non - stop between Paddington and Parkway. If you wanted Bristol to Reading you had to go via Bath.

Clearly that might not happen in the final version, but for me it shows it is definitely under consideration...

 

[glbotu]

Is it legal for them to refuse an open access operator?

Yes, it is, namely because TfL own the core, not Network Rail. It isn't considered part of the National Rail network. Much like an OAO can't rock up and say it wants to operate a fast Morden - High Barnet calling at Charing Cross only service on the Northern Line.

 

[LexyBoy]

Dave did say "I can't see many trains missing Reading out". Those 2tph to Bristol aren't that significant - Reading would still see the current 2tph to Bristol. A couple of non-stop services is feasible, though I don't know how much benefit it would be.

 

[TEW]

I'm not convinced that the final timetable will see 2tph non-stop between Paddington and Bristol Parkway. I just don't think there is that much demand London-Bristol. The timetables were only produced to assess rolling stock requirements anyway.

 

[tripleseis]

While most London-Reading commuters will simply use the fast trains and change at Paddington, I can see many outbound late night Crossrail trains being busier all the way to Reading especially at the weekends (ferrying people home from the West End).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yes, it is, namely because TfL own the core, not Network Rail. It isn't considered part of the National Rail network. Much like an OAO can't rock up and say it wants to operate a fast Morden - High Barnet calling at Charing Cross only service on the Northern Line.

TfL is not regulated by ORR, so there is nobody to apply to for Open Access.
Crossrail will also be a concession (like LO), not a franchise, with TfL taking revenue risk.
Nothing to stop OA into Paddington or Liverpool St though.

 

[JamesRowden]

Perhaps this news means that there might be a business case for a station(s) in east Reading (North Earley / Woodley). It would offer a quick link to Central Reading avoiding the congestion along the A4, and the Crossrail services through Central London would be attractive compared to having to get to Reading station and then change again at Paddington.

 

[RichmondCommu]

While most London-Reading commuters will simply use the fast trains and change at Paddington, I can see many outbound late night Crossrail trains being busier all the way to Reading especially at the weekends (ferrying people home from the West End).

I would concur with that as many people would be too tired to care! I would be interested to know what time the planned service is expected to finish in the evening.

 

[LexyBoy]

Perhaps this news means that there might be a business case for a station(s) in east Reading (North Earley / Woodley). It would offer a quick link to Central Reading avoiding the congestion along the A4, and the Crossrail services through Central London would be attractive compared to having to get to Reading station and then change again at Paddington.

I have thought for a while that a station between Twyford and Reading would be well patronised, as Woodley is poorly provided for transport links. Crossrail would be a lot quicker than the line from Earley into Waterloo. Also, since calls for a third Thames bridge at Reading have surfaced again, a bridge linking up to the A329 might make Woodley a more attractive station than Reading for parts of South Oxfordshire and Caversham (given traffic and issues). Obviously it would also be good for Reading's transport.

However, it would be very expensive as most of the line is in a deep cutting, not to mention heavily trafficked. And it might mean people using Woodley rather than Twyford, rather than new customers.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I have thought for a while that a station between Twyford and Reading would be well patronised,

However, it would be very expensive as most of the line is in a deep cutting, not to mention heavily trafficked. And it might mean people using Woodley rather than Twyford, rather than new customers.

It nearly got built 15 years ago with the development of the business park where Microsoft and Oracle are, at the end of the A329M.
But the opportunity passed (along with the 3rd bridge).
Most of the blame went to South Oxfordshire for refusing the bridge plans.

 

[ClevedonYellow]

Dave did say "I can't see many trains missing Reading out". Those 2tph to Bristol aren't that significant - Reading would still see the current 2tph to Bristol. A couple of non-stop services is feasible, though I don't know how much benefit it would be.

What I was saying is that most trains would stop at Reading but not all.

What I was suggesting was this.

Bristol TM - London Paddington Via Bristol Parkway (2018 when IEP are introduced)

1TPH Call At Bristol Temple Meads, Bristol Parkway, Swindon & London Paddington.

1TPH Call at Bristol Temple Meads, Bristol Parkway, Swindon, Didcot Parkway, Reading & London Paddington.

Bristol Temple Meads - London Paddington Via Bath Spa & Chippenham

1TPH Call at Bristol Temple Meads, Bath Spa, Chippenham, Swindon & London Paddington

1 TPH Call at Bristol Temple Meads, Bath Spa, Chippenham, Swindon, Didcot Parkway, Reading & London Paddington.

Swansea / Cardiff Central - London Paddington

1TPH Call at Swansea, Neath, Port Talbot Parkway, Bridgend, Cardiff Central, Newport, Bristol Parkway, Swindon & London Paddington

1TPH Call at Cardiff Central, Newport, Bristol Parkway, Swindon, Didcot Parkway, Reading & London Paddington.

Penzance / Plymouth - London Paddington

1TPH Call at Penzance, St Erth, Camborne, Redruth, Truro, St Austell, Par, Bodmin Parkway, Liskeard, Plymouth, Totnes, Newton Abbot, Exeter St Davids, Taunton & London Paddington.

1TPH Call at Plymouth, Totnes, Newton Abbot, Exeter St Davids, Tiverton Parkway, Taunton, Castle Cary, Westbury, Reading & London Paddington

With the same working on the way back.

This would then provide a faster journey time to the south west every hour with slower services every hour. It would also free up platform room for a more frequent Crossrail service from Reading.

You can't have everything stopping at reading, FGW needs to look at Virgin with some services stopping everywhere (Glasgow/ Edinburgh - London Euston Via Birmingham New St.) and the fast services skipping busy stops. (Non-Stop from Warrington).

There are a number of commuters to London From the South West (Taunton,Weston-Super-Mare, Bristol & Bath) and I have regularly stood on these trains from Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington from the start.

^TB

 

[transmanche]

There are a number of commuters to London From the South West (Taunton,Weston-Super-Mare, Bristol & Bath) and I have regularly stood on these trains from Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington from the start.

I'm not sure how skipping Reading will help you there...

 

[TEW]

It's not going to be that many services that skip Reading. You say only some should skip it but your proposed service pattern actually involves half the trains skipping Reading and mean stations West of Plymouth and Cardiff won't have any trains to Reading. Reading is simply too important a destination to skip on all but a handful of services.

 

[bicbasher]

I would concur with that as many people would be too tired to care! I would be interested to know what time the planned service is expected to finish in the evening.

Indeed, I hope it isn't as early as LOROL's ELL service which finishes still too early in comparison to when it was LUL operated.

 

[Rich McLean]

The only trains which are planned to skip, are the two Bristol Temple Meads via Parkway services, leaving Reading with 2tph to Bristol Parkway and 2tph to Bristol Temple Meads as of now.

Most of the via Parkway services will be 5 car IEP with the via Bath services being mostly 9 cars, so skipping the 5 car via Parkways makes sense to avoid too much overcrowding and splits up the passenger flow

 

[Andrewlong]

It nearly got built 15 years ago with the development of the business park where Microsoft and Oracle are, at the end of the A329M.
But the opportunity passed (along with the 3rd bridge).
Most of the blame went to South Oxfordshire for refusing the bridge plans.

A station at the Business Park would allow those without cars quick to central Reading. The shuttle bus to Central Reading takes an eternity because of the traffic. The only way to currently get to TVBP quickly by train is to take SWT to Winnersh Triangle and to take the peak hour coach which heads along A3290.

I seem to remember car parking problems was one of many reasons for the new station at TVBP not going ahead.

 

[higthomas]

This would then provide a faster journey time to the south west every hour with slower services every hour. It would also free up platform room for a more frequent Crossrail service from Reading.

You can't have everything stopping at reading, FGW needs to look at Virgin with some services stopping everywhere (Glasgow/ Edinburgh - London Euston Via Birmingham New St.) and the fast services skipping busy stops. (Non-Stop from Warrington).

There are a number of commuters to London From the South West (Taunton,Weston-Super-Mare, Bristol & Bath) and I have regularly stood on these trains from Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington from the start.

^TB

Having looked at the platform diagram, assuming that crossrail is on the reliefs, I don't think that having fast trains not stopping will help with regards to platform space, they are meant to stop in completely different platforms.
Also reading is now just such a big interchange that FGW really won't want to have less trains stopping there.

 

[gswindale]

A station at the Business Park would allow those without cars quick to central Reading. The shuttle bus to Central Reading takes an eternity because of the traffic. The only way to currently get to TVBP quickly by train is to take SWT to Winnersh Triangle and to take the peak hour coach which heads along A3290.

I seem to remember car parking problems was one of many reasons for the new station at TVBP not going ahead.

Has anybody looked at the amount of space available for parking at TVP? Looking out of our office window there is a fair amount of empty parking space!

At least there is now a bus service from TVP to Winnersh Triangle (if it had been there all along I might be using it rather than driving as I do now!)

 

[Andrewlong]

Has anybody looked at the amount of space available for parking at TVP? Looking out of our office window there is a fair amount of empty parking space!

At least there is now a bus service from TVP to Winnersh Triangle (if it had been there all along I might be using it rather than driving as I do now!)

Depends who owns all that unused car parking space and whether it's in 1 place or not. Commuters don't want to walk that far from car to train. An alternative is an off-site car park and a railway shuttle bus to new station. With the Crossrail extension announcement, this station ought to be re-considered.

 

[HowardGWR]

Depends who owns all that unused car parking space and whether it's in 1 place or not. Commuters don't want to walk that far from car to train. An alternative is an off-site car park and a railway shuttle bus to new station. With the Crossrail extension announcement, this station ought to be re-considered.

A totally environmentally irresponsible development IMO (car mad councillors responsible, no doubt). Offices belong in town centres next to railway and bus stations, as is now being implemented at Bristol. I'll bet the only reason it's there is because the land was 'made' cheap (it was a power station once, wasn't it?). As it's flat, does anyone cycle to it?

Retiring quickly to avoid cyber grapeshot.

 

[Ironside]

A totally environmentally irresponsible development IMO (car mad councillors responsible, no doubt). Offices belong in town centres next to railway and bus stations, as is now being implemented at Bristol. I'll bet the only reason it's there is because the land was 'made' cheap (it was a power station once, wasn't it?). As it's flat, does anyone cycle to it?

Retiring quickly to avoid cyber grapeshot.

Some people do run and cycle to those offices from town using the river Thames tow path.

 

[Aictos]

Exactly! And that's before we get on to the class 378 style seating! I'm a big fan of the class 378's but I think Reading is a journey too far.

I reckon it be something similar to the interior of the Met's S8s personally!

 

[swt_passenger]

I reckon it be something similar to the interior of the Met's S8s personally!

It will have to be better than an S8 - now that they are 9 car units, but with 3 sets of doors per carriage, there also needs to be an average of 50 seats per carriage. You cannot really fit that many seats without having a significant proportion in 2+2 layout.