Customer-Facing Apps with Formation Information

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Why is it that ATW can't be bothered to properly enter portion workings in the CIS database and instead put misspelled notes on like the above?

Other TOCs manage it.

In fairness , it isn't usually as bad as that when I look at it. This is very badly done.

 

[221129]

View attachment 39480
I find Tiger shows train lengths and always gives good info. You can get it on your phone as well which is helpful.

Not helpful for non staff though....

 

[Bletchleyite]

In fairness , it isn't usually as bad as that when I look at it. This is very badly done.

FWIW I've seen people on the wrong train on a number of occasions due to ATW's terrible handling of portion working generally. And I don't even use ATW that often.

Southern and LM do it correctly (in slightly different ways, but in both cases it's pretty clear - Southern with their coach numbers a little better though, and SWT/SWR appear to have implemented the same). Every other TOC needs to do it the same way Southern, SWR or LM do. No excuses.

 

[swt_passenger]

444’s have First class at one but as they are only five coaches a lot of the time you can Hedge you bets by standing where the end of coach 2 would stop. SWR Stations do show formation information for XC but how accurate it is I could not say for sure.

SWR also usually announce 'First' position when a 444 is known to be in reverse. But not by coach numbers, they'll just say for example "middle and rear" or whatever. XC formation directions seem to be right far more often than not, although sometimes absent.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Not helpful for non staff though....

I am not staff. but find it useful for last reports, number of coaches and any other info such as splitting or cancelations.

 

[221129]

I am not staff. but find it useful for last reports, number of coaches and any other info such as splitting or cancelations.

I was under the impression you were working for Northern. Given it is a staff only system it isn't much help for normal passengers. And offers no more information than the platforms screens anyway.

 

[43096]

I have the impression that when a guard takes over a train they use their ticket machine to record the formation (coach numbers) they have which then feeds the system. I've certainly noticed a guard walking down the outside of the train logging coach numbers into his ticket machine, anyway.

I believe that is correct.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I disagree. I have very rarely found that to the case.

I catch them most days from Stoke (train having come from Manchester) and it is wrong more often than correct

 

[221129]

I catch them most days from Stoke (train having come from Manchester) and it is wrong more often than correct

Then perhaps that is a VT system fault as it is rarely an issue for me

 

[Deafdoggie]

Then perhaps that is a VT system fault as it is rarely an issue for me

I don't see how. It doesn't say "First Class at front" for example every time, it varies, but is still often wrong!

 

[221129]

Like i said. That doesn't match my experiences and I deal with it many times a day every day....

 

[xotGD]

For a short while some TPE stations like Warrington did display the alignment of first class on the CIS, but then Northern took over and this practice ended. I seem to remember it occasionally also showed up at Leeds, so it must be at least technically possible. These days though I have to rely on the little clue at the front of Coach C, or the absence of it at the front of Coach A to work out which way round a single set is running.

What is this 'little clue' of which you speak???

 

[marcouk2]

What is this 'little clue' of which you speak???

Yellow bar on the dellner coupler of coach C

 

[tsr]

Southern and LM do it correctly (in slightly different ways, but in both cases it's pretty clear - Southern with their coach numbers a little better though, and SWT/SWR appear to have implemented the same). Every other TOC needs to do it the same way Southern, SWR or LM do. No excuses.

Southern don't even "do it the same way" on all occasions. Automatic coach numbers only work when the train knows how long it is - when you have a 455 splitting (it happens), the PIS system has no information on this, so it can't show coach numbers. GTR's Electrostars also can't generally display 3 way splitters correctly, despite much wrangling.

I believe that is correct.

It isn't always. Some TOCs may have tablets/smartphones which let you do something like that, but with many companies, the company-issue phones will only allow you to log formation/CIS issues by phone or email, or a proprietary app which is limited to that TOC only. This will then have to be fed manually into the system by someone else at the other end. It's certainly not compulsory or necessarily even doable at any TOC in my area.

 

[London Trains]

Southern don't even "do it the same way" on all occasions. Automatic coach numbers only work when the train knows how long it is - when you have a 455 splitting (it happens), the PIS system has no information on this, so it can't show coach numbers. GTR's Electrostars also can't generally display 3 way splitters correctly, despite much wrangling.

It isn't always. Some TOCs may have tablets/smartphones which let you do something like that, but with many companies, the company-issue phones will only allow you to log formation/CIS issues by phone or email, or a proprietary app which is limited to that TOC only. This will then have to be fed manually into the system by someone else at the other end. It's certainly not compulsory or necessarily even doable at any TOC in my area.

Southern are actually good when it is not a 455 or a 3 way splitter.
And the 3 way splitters are the stupidest thing ever to come up with, especially in the mid-peak.

 

[louis97]

I don't see how. It doesn't say "First Class at front" for example every time, it varies, but is still often wrong!

The Virgin West Coast CIS is slightly different to most others, unlike most others the information is entered by station staff. Most other operators stations get the information automatically from CrossCountry via the Darwin feed. Typically every station that gets it from the Darwin feed will advertise "Formed of x Coaches" and "First class is in the front 2 coaches" or "First class is at the front"

Therefore the information is far more likely to be incorrect or not present at all at a Virgin West Coast station than anywhere else.

 

[Deafdoggie]

The Virgin West Coast CIS is slightly different to most others, unlike most others the information is entered by station staff. Most other operators stations get the information automatically from CrossCountry via the Darwin feed. Typically every station that gets it from the Darwin feed will advertise "Formed of x Coaches" and "First class is in the front 2 coaches" or "First class is at the front"

Therefore the information is far more likely to be incorrect or not present at all at a Virgin West Coast station than anywhere else.

That would explain it! As it is generally correct in GWR land, but I thought they'd had time to sort it out by the time train got there!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It isn't always. Some TOCs may have tablets/smartphones which let you do something like that, but with many companies, the company-issue phones will only allow you to log formation/CIS issues by phone or email, or a proprietary app which is limited to that TOC only. This will then have to be fed manually into the system by someone else at the other end. It's certainly not compulsory or necessarily even doable at any TOC in my area.

For clarity my post which was replied to said SBB (Swiss railways) did it that way, not UK TOCs (some of course might).

 

[louis97]

That would explain it! As it is generally correct in GWR land, but I thought they'd had time to sort it out by the time train got there!

It explains it, but it isn't really acceptable. Another issue is that because everything is done locally, if it is wrong at one particular Virgin station, aside from phoning each further Virgin station, not much can be done. Plus it might actually be correct at other Virgin stations!

It is no different with Virgin's own services, many times I have had a train advertised as an 11-car on the screens and a 9-car turns up!

 

[xotGD]

Yellow bar on the dellner coupler of coach C

Many thanks. Now I know what to look for it is obvious looking through photos on line.

 

[Mojo]

A lot of this is down to reversals at places like New Street and Reading (and occasionally Newcastle). First class may have been at the front when the train started, but where is it now?

When I was station staff we had to look up on Trust all of the trains we were due to be on the platform for that day (including XC) services and determine the formation of the train by looking up the carriage numbers, the 604xx car is First class and from that you could work out where to advise customers to wait for their booked seat/bike space/wheelchair area/etc.

 

[alistairlees]

Its seems to just be the Southern area. Brighton seemed comprehensive. Victoria had most stuff. St Pancras had just the Thameslink to Bedford. This is a screenshot.
View attachment 39449

Also Chiltern out of Marylebone (all 2- and 3-car tonight!) and SWR from Waterloo. Probably other stations along those routes. Thanks for pointing this app out.

 

[Harbouring]

Seems that app has the same info as https://live-departures.info/ although that site only has the next few listed