Cyclists - your experiences on the road

[Bletchleyite]

Houten is world famous and gets visits from planners across the world. On the negative side, I've heard that its proximity to the motorway means that it is easy to drive out of town and so for a lot of people it acts a dormitory town.

Almere is a much bigger new town and enjoys fully segregated cycling and bus network with several railway stations all in a line so it is always a short bike or bus ride to the nearest station.

Almere is twinned with Milton Keynes (obviously because they are the biggest new towns in their respective countries) and there is a new housing development in Milton Keynes called "The Almere"

Modern Apartments in Milton Keynes | The Almere

Discover The Almere's modern luxury apartments for young professionals in Milton Keynes. Book a viewing now for the ultimate living experience.

www.thealmere.co.uk

It has struck me that the Marston Vale around Kempston Hardwick would be the ideal place to complement the city of the car with a British Almere, which could well make the line more viable.

That said, while British new towns were built largely for the car, the earlier ones were designed for walking* primarily, though not cycling, reflecting how things were in the 1960s and 70s. The problem was that the layouts which made it easy to go key places by car but not between local places meant it was hard to chase criminals so crime was rife. MK didn't follow that approach except in a few pre new town estates like the Lakes in Bletchley.

I wonder do LTNs cause this crime issue, or are police helicopters and drones enough to deal with it these days?

* But not cycling. Utility cycling was at a proper nadir after about the 70s and before the 2000s, it simply wasn't a thing in most cases. You walked, you went by bus or train or you drove. Cycling was something kids did, or something where you put your bike in the car and went somewhere nice for a leisure activity.

 

[johncrossley]

The blue and yellow bikes, they do look good and I would certainly consider using them.

You need a personal OV-Chipkaart to use them, which is hard (or impossible?) to get as a tourist. But you can easily rent bikes at most stations that have manned bike parking.

You have answered a question I was pondering last year, when I was last considering cycling in the Netherlands, about taking my cycle on the Rotterdam Metro. I am very happy to hear that I can take my cycle on the Metro, although I would of course look to cycle into the city first. As you can probably tell, I have plenty to research but it is high up my list of places to go.

They take bikes for free but they are banned during weekday peak periods. On NS trains you have to pay to take your bike on the train and they also ban bikes during weekday peak periods.

 

[biko]

Houten is world famous and gets visits from planners across the world. On the negative side, I've heard that its proximity to the motorway means that it is easy to drive out of town and so for a lot of people it acts a dormitory town.

Almere is a much bigger new town and enjoys fully segregated cycling and bus network with several railway stations all in a line so it is always a short bike or bus ride to the nearest station.

Almere is twinned with Milton Keynes (obviously because they are the biggest new towns in their respective countries) and there is a new housing development in Milton Keynes called "The Almere"

Modern Apartments in Milton Keynes | The Almere

Discover The Almere's modern luxury apartments for young professionals in Milton Keynes. Book a viewing now for the ultimate living experience.

www.thealmere.co.uk

You’re right about Houten, it’s very close to the A27 motorway. But I wouldn’t call it a failure at all. Cars don’t dominate the streets because of the design, so it’s a much more liveable place than many others. The railway is pretty well used as frequencies are high, so I think it still is a good example of how to design a suburb. Unfortunately, few examples exist of suburbs that aren't a dormitory town.

Almere is a good example of a dormitory town too. Very little happens over there, except for the huge shopping centre filled with cheap chains. Almere has been designed with similar principles in mind as Houten, but has indeed the addition of the segregated bus network, which is now marketed as a kind of metro. But the biggest downside to Almere is that the architecture is boring. Endless rows of uninteresting buildings.

The blue and yellow bikes, they do look good and I would certainly consider using them.

You need a personal OV-Chipkaart to use them, which is hard (or impossible?) to get as a tourist. But you can easily rent bikes at most stations that have manned bike parking.

You mean an OV-fiets. You indeed need a personal OV-chipkaart, but that isn't the problem if you're a tourist. The big problem is that you need a €0.01/year subscription for OV-fiets. I believe you can only get one if you've got a Dutch bank account. Beside the low yearly cost, they debit the hire cost directly from the bank account.

Zwolle does look good, I've not seen a lot of it but I do remember bits of the little town at the end of a DMU branch line (as it was in 2013, it may have been electrified since then). Kampen I see it was, and my visit was way back on 12th March 2013. According to my video on YouTube, it was a pair of noisy Class 3400 DMUs:

As someone from the area, I'd certainly recommend people with an interest in cycling to come here. Nice different landscapes and good cycling infrastructure in the region, not just in the cities and towns. Even hills just over the river in the Veluwe woods. Kampen is also really nice indeed, just like all the historic towns and cities along the river IJssel.

No DMUs in this region anymore. The DM90 trains have been replaced by FLIRTs after electrification a few years ago.

Anyone any views on Maastricht? I stayed in that area on a railway adventure way back in 2014, and while I remember some bits of it I haven't many clear memories other than arriving with a load of snow around!

Very nice city! Atmosphere is mix of Dutch with a more Southern Europe feel to it. Landscapes in the area are beautiful with many steep hills, so it's very unlike the rest of the country. Cycling infrastructure isn't as good as in the rest of the country, but still many on-road cycling lanes. The city centre has many roads with setts, which isn't very nice to cycle on. But walking there is really nice and different from any other city in the country. It's also interesting to cycle to Belgium from Maastricht (about 5 kilometres) and to note the huge differences in infrastructure, architecture and town planning. The border is immediately obvious without looking at any signs.

 

[johncrossley]

That said, while British new towns were built largely for the car, the earlier ones were designed for walking* primarily, though not cycling, reflecting how things were in the 1960s and 70s. The problem was that the layouts which made it easy to go key places by car but not between local places meant it was hard to chase criminals so crime was rife. MK didn't follow that approach except in a few pre new town estates like the Lakes in Bletchley.

I remember reading this book as a child, where the author praised cycle paths in Stevenage. He probably didn't talk about MK as it was still early in development at the time of writing.

Richard's Bicycle Book: Amazon.co.uk: Ballantine, Richard: 9780330267663: Books

Buy Richard's Bicycle Book 2 by Ballantine, Richard (ISBN: 9780330267663) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

Looking at Google and OpenStreetMap, Stevenage looks to have quite a few cycle paths near main roads using underpasses like in MK.

On OpenStreetMap, Livingston looks like it has a very dense network of bike paths, but I haven't seen any discussion about its cycling credentials.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks re Stevenage. Skem is the earlier New Town I am more familiar with, and this does have some off road walkways (often crime ridden) but isn't as good for cycling, though cycling on road is less oppressive than MK as the prevailing speed limit is 40 rather than 70 as here.

 

[Magdalia]

Looking at Google and OpenStreetMap, Stevenage looks to have quite a few cycle paths near main roads using underpasses like in MK.

It does, including one through the railway station the other side of the platform 1 perimeter fence.

I have only used them a few times, but can confirm that Stevenage has the same issue as MK, with a lot of steep gradients out of the underpasses. The Fairlands Valley part of the town is quite hilly, at least by Fenland standards!

But don't worry about the six hills in Six Hills Way, they are ancient burial mounds and are scheduled ancient monuments.

 

[Techniquest]

@biko I am about to start work, so I don't yet have time to type a detailed reply, but I am very grateful for the information you've provided. It's a shame I won't be able to use the OV-fiets, but as I'll be taking my own machine with me it's not the end of the world.

Should I remember later, I'll reply better but you've given me plenty to think about when I get bored in about 10 minutes time for the next 8 hours! Mentally bored that is, I've got enough physically to do to keep me busy at least.

As for Livingston, I haven't been but I have seen the flood of green routes on my Sustrans map for the area. Maybe, just maybe, I will one day explore and feed back on it!

 

[TheBigD]

On a different note, as I'm doing LEJOG in a few weeks time, is a daily write of up my trip something that appeals to contributors on this thread?

 

[Bletchleyite]

On a different note, as I'm doing LEJOG in a few weeks time, is a daily write of up my trip something that appeals to contributors on this thread?

Certainly, yes please! (With reference to my previous posts, this is certainly an excellent use of a fast road bike!)

 

[Techniquest]

On a different note, as I'm doing LEJOG in a few weeks time, is a daily write of up my trip something that appeals to contributors on this thread?

Absolutely! Already excited about the read!

 

[johncrossley]

On a different note, as I'm doing LEJOG in a few weeks time, is a daily write of up my trip something that appeals to contributors on this thread?

What kind of route? Following low traffic or off-road routes, such as those on the National Cycle Network?

 

[TheBigD]

What kind of route? Following low traffic or off-road routes, such as those on the National Cycle Network?

See attached link...

Guided Road Cycling Holiday - Land's End to John O'Groats Explorer (22 Days) - UK Saddle Skedaddle

Ride the entire length of mainland Britain, from the very toe to the very tip! The ultimate Great British cycling challenge - that really is the only way to describe this tour. Visit us online or call our experts to find out more.

www.skedaddle.com

I'm doing it over 3 weeks, certainly not in a rush. First long distance ride since I've done since my Patagonia trip right before covid hit in 2020, though I did do C2C last September (170ish miles (took a wrong run and added 20!) over 3 days).

 

[Ediswan]

I have only used them a few times, but can confirm that Stevenage has the same issue as MK, with a lot of steep gradients out of the underpasses. The Fairlands Valley part of the town is quite hilly, at least by Fenland standards!

Stevenage is about 50m between highest and lowest.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Stevenage is about 50m between highest and lowest.

It's not absolute range that's relevant, it's upping and downing.

 

[Failed Unit]

I must admit I have mixed views about the 20mph speed limits on my bike. There are lots in St Albans where I would easily break the speed limit if it wasn’t for the motor vehicles.

in other cities i have ridden with them it makes the relationship worse. I am slowing down the motor vehicles but not by enough for them to overtake me. (the ones that do then seem to immediately stop and turn right).

It's not absolute range that's relevant, it's upping and downing.

Yep. Some of them are step if you are not used to them. I find Stevenage hard on the bike but coming from the Knebworth direction you are constantly going from the path to the road so better just stay on the road.

 

[TheBigD]

Certainly, yes please! (With reference to my previous posts, this is certainly an excellent use of a fast road bike!)

Absolutely! Already excited about the read!

Fair enough, I will do a daily write up in the trip planning and reports section of the forum.

 

[JohnMcL7]

Speaking of sustrans routes I had another go at the cycle route up beside the A9 from Perth to Inverness which I'd done a few years ago but it hadn't gone well, the initial section out of Perth was temporarily out of use, another section through Dunkeld was off road through the forest and then there was a long section around the Drumochter summit which was a slippery gravel when wet none of which was very good on a road bike on slicks. They've done some great work though and they're all good quality tarmac and although there's still a few rough sections they're not long so not an issue, it's a great route with fantastic scenery plus it's practical as you're never that far away from a town with supplies or the railway if you need to bomb out.

Also my first go on a Scotrail HST with the added bonus it had the additional bike slots which are much easier to use than the original vertical ones, hopefully they'll update their systems to allow more than two bike slots because I've had a few trips in mind that I've had to give up on from not being able to book the bike on the train.

 

[Techniquest]

A mighty fine looking machine there! Good to hear things are better on that route for you now, I'd love to give it a try myself but I would not survive that. That's also really good to hear that with the HST spaces, nice and easy to use I don't mind the space in the TGS on GWR HSTs, only ever used it once but it's quite good for the limited space. Quite, you've reminded me that it's been way too long since I last had an adventure down that way!

I had a big tour of Herefordshire and Gloucestershire today, those who follow me on Strava will already have seen the route and the description. If anyone wants to read it, I will be happy to share it on here too Some good surfaces, awful surfaces, big hills but overall an extremely successful coverage mission. Exhausting, granted, but successful. I'll not comment on the idiots overtaking on downhills around sweeping corners that dip down quickly and at quite some speed, I would be wanting to use some unclean language and that's not my desire!

I've attached some photos from today, in order they are:

1) A view from the Aston Crews area, looking towards Gloucester.

2) Taken from a junction in Dymock Woods, where a much needed break had been had and the woods are highly recommended cycling, this view merely provides an idea of what to expect.

3) The M50, on one of many crossings of it, and look! Actually being used!

4) Another view, this time from the same spot looking north, of one of the UK's quietest motorways actually getting some use.

5) 170514+172005 arriving in Ledbury with the 1602 Hereford-Birmingham New Street.

6) 800321 arrives at Ledbury with a London Paddington-Hereford service.

7) Finally, the Blue Beauty (my Carrera Zelos) in the cycle space. First time taking her on an IET with me and no problem hooking her up!

 

[TheBigD]

Nice pics. Will be passing near that area during LEJOG (further to the east through the Malvern Hills).

Given the many criticisms online about the IET cycle spaces, you make the cycle space look roomy!!!

 

[Techniquest]

Nice pics. Will be passing near that area during LEJOG (further to the east through the Malvern Hills).

Given the many criticisms online about the IET cycle spaces, you make the cycle space look roomy!!!

I don't often have a lot of great things to say about IET cycle spaces, to be fair, it does help that my Blue Beauty (and think of it what you will, but because she's so fast I was considering giving her the nickname of Thunderbird 1) is quite slim and makes the space look bigger.

I'm curious about your route through the Malvern Hills, there's some gorgeous scenery around there. Not to mention some big climbs! There's a few places up there you can fill your bottles up from the fountains coming out of the hills themselves. They do highly recommend boiling it first before consuming it, I've never done so and, as far as I know, I've always been fine. You're definitely in for some nice cycling when you get to the Malverns!

 

[TheBigD]

I don't have the detailed route maps yet, but the itinerary states...

"...From Tintern Abbey we pass throughthe picturesque and unspoilt Forest of Dean. After a few stiff climbs we skirt the River Severn, then travel east of the Malvern Hills and on to Worcester..."

48 miles of cycling with 3500 feet of ascent.

I'm curious about your route through the Malvern Hills, there's some gorgeous scenery around there. Not to mention some big climbs! There's a few places up there you can fill your bottles up from the fountains coming out of the hills themselves. They do highly recommend boiling it first before consuming it, I've never done so and, as far as I know, I've always been fine. You're definitely in for some nice cycling when you get to the Malverns!

 

[Techniquest]

I don't have the detailed route maps yet, but the itinerary states...

"...From Tintern Abbey we pass throughthe picturesque and unspoilt Forest of Dean. After a few stiff climbs we skirt the River Severn, then travel east of the Malvern Hills and on to Worcester..."

48 miles of cycling with 3500 feet of ascent.

Definitely some challenging climbs down Tintern Abbey/Chepstow way, based on what I've seen from buses! East of the Malvern Hills will feature some hills but nothing super difficult, and there's some nice scenery down that way. I've done some of those roads, not all by any means but I think you'll enjoy that stage.

 

[duncombec]

I'd described myself as a "confident normal" cyclist - I ride a "hybrid" (neither a road bike nor a mountain bike, not the propulsion), wear normal clothes, and can get a good turn of speed up on roads I know well. I'll use cycle paths if they make sense (and aren't just random bits of tarmac that shove you back on the road in visual distance) and aren't covered in broken glass and overhanging trees.

My personal bugbear at the moment are drivers who ignore the common courtesy of "obstruction on the side of the road" (on flat roads - I don't expect drivers to wait for me to puff up a hill unless I'm already well on my way), and will pull out regardless even though they should pause - and would pause if it were a car driver coming the other way, then seem shocked when they realise I haven't stopped because the priority is mine. We won't mention those who ignore me, but then acknowledge drivers who've pulled in behind me... Similarly drivers who will try and overtake in single-lane working sections of roadworks. Given the coned area is often longer than size of the hole, the lengths people will go to save 2 seconds never ceases to amaze.

I remain amused by a driver I ended up in front of earlier this year on a single-track road with passing places. He caught up with me on a fairly long section without suitable passing points (I'd have to stop on the road, and he'd have to use a fairly banked passing point to get around me), and I intended to pull in a little way along where I knew there was a wide place on a sweeping corner and neither of us would have to slow down much. As it happened, there was a car coming the other way. Rather than looking at the road ahead, and despite my efforts to warn him with hand signals, he just pulled straight around me... and then forced the approaching driver to reverse into the passing place nearest her rather than the much shorter distance back behind me. As I then waved her on, the approaching driver was nice enough to stop, wind her window down and thank me for waiting, thank me for attempting to alert Mr Impatient to her presence, and question why he was in so much of a hurry!

 

[ashkeba]

No of course they should not throw cups on the ground. They should not drink, eat, telephone while cycling!

What about while driving a train? As has been said very often on this site, most people would rather the driver/rider took a controlled drink instead of losing control through an uncontrolled cough or similar.

I find it hard to push a bike while carrying, let alone drinking, a coffee!

It is generally much more difficult to push a bike than ride it. They are designed for riding. You wouldn't design a push wheel barrow and end up with a usual bicycle, with the wheels and most of the luggage carriers in the way of where you want to stand to push the handle.

The north of Belgium is arguably better than Denmark. Belgium does badly in statistics because Brussels and the French speaking area have very limited bicycle infrastructure, so doesn't get much publicity.

They are catching up rapidly. Brussels has put in alot of 20mph and a Gent-style circulation plan this summer (like Low Throughput Neighbourhoods on whole-borough scales), while the Wallonians (both French and German speakers) have started using Flanders-style junction numbers and linking up their RAVeLs with quiet roads and small sections of new-built cycle road. They have probably already overtaken most of England, as has France.

Milton Keynes cycle routes seemed much more like Denmark than Belgium or the Netherlands, but with extra potholes and less blue warning paint across junctions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Milton Keynes cycle routes seemed much more like Denmark than Belgium or the Netherlands, but with extra potholes and less blue warning paint across junctions.

Unlike most European ones they don't have right of way across a junction with a road in most cases - where they do, in some newer estates, it's done Dutch style by continuing it across the junction so the car is obviously crossing something that isn't theirs.

The yellow bollards found at each junction with a road are effectively give way markers for cyclists. Some newer ones have an actual small Give Way sign attached but most don't, the post has that meaning on its own. Sometimes there are also Give Way markers on the Redway itself in white.

I must admit though that the Redways would benefit from a dashed white line down the middle to emphasize that the Redway Code asks that they're treated like a road by users, i.e. cycle on the left, walk facing oncoming traffic (on the right).

One thing I do particularly like about the Redways, though, is the warm colour they add to the surroundings. I really dislike the garish green and blue you get in other cities which conveys the same meaning but isn't a pleasant addition to the streetscape.

 

[TheBigD]

Passed a bloke riding a replica penny parthing this afternoon whilst cycling through Gosberton. Certainly something a bit different, and to be honest, didnt look the most comfortable of rides!

Penny Farthing For sale

Penny farthing bikes made in the UK. Hi quality reproduction ordinary bicycles. Period correct Antique replica's.

richardsofengland.co.uk

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

I had a test ride on a sort of low pennyfarthing/old ordinary. 36" front wheel I think.
..
One good thing about cycling now just occurred to me, compared to driving. You can still buy a relatively simple cycle, fit for purpose. My cycle shop could even order a rear wheel to take a fixed sprocket.

Try to find a new or even ten-year-old car without all sorts of unnecessary features.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One for this thread I think.

Went for a "walk out, bus back" on the St Ives Busway earlier. During this despite walking well over to one side I was close passed at speed by four separate cyclists. In no case was there any oncoming traffic so they had plenty of room to pass much wider. All were adult male "proper cyclists" on decent road bikes, not kids mucking about. One was so close he almost knocked me over, but all were way too close for their speed.

What on earth gives? Cyclists rightly campaign for cars not to close pass them, then four of them - four rank hypocrites - close passed a pedestrian.

How can the cycling lobby be taken seriously if they are unable to behave correctly themselves? As a cyclist, pedestrian and driver I utterly despair.

 

[Haywain]

One for this thread I think.

Went for a "walk out, bus back" on the St Ives Busway earlier. During this despite walking well over to one side I was close passed at speed by four separate cyclists. In no case was there any oncoming traffic so they had plenty of room to pass much wider. All were adult male "proper cyclists" on decent road bikes, not kids mucking about. One was so close he almost knocked me over, but all were way too close for their speed.

What on earth gives? Cyclists rightly campaign for cars not to close pass them, then four of them - four rank hypocrites - close passed a pedestrian.

How can the cycling lobby be taken seriously if they are unable to behave correctly themselves? As a cyclist, pedestrian and driver I utterly despair.

So four cyclists passed too close; how many passed while allowing you sufficient space? It’s easy to generalise based on the behaviour of a few which is why some motorists do it regarding cyclists.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So four cyclists passed too close; how many passed while allowing you sufficient space? It’s easy to generalise based on the behaviour of a few which is why some motorists do it regarding cyclists.

It doesn't matter. The self same cyclists would be all over Twitter with videos if ONE car close passed them.

I'd not do it as it's assault, but there was a real temptation each time I heard one approaching to put my hand out to full reach. If I could reach them to knock them off, they were by definition too close.

It's all over cycling Twitter that these cyclists don't respect pedestrians. It is a genuine attitude problem among the campaigners which seriously damages their argument.