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D&G Buses

markymark2000

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Western Part of the UK
I spent a few days in Crewe last month and noticed the 37 and 38 seem to operate once an hour but combine to form a half hourly frequency between Crewe and Sandbach. A few years ago there seemed to be 4 buses an hour on this corridor when Arriva were still present but can't recall if Arriva mainly duplicated D&G or spaced out their journeys. Would you say an hourly frequency on each route is sufficient providing the right capacity vehicles are used or should it be a half hourly frequency on each route (and a common 15 minute frequency between Crewe and Sandbach)?
I can't speak on the 37 but on the 38, I think half hourly would work if you put in the time and money needed AND you worked with education establishments to reduce/rid their own services which only exist due to poor 'core bus network' provision.
None of this 'bog standard bus and be grateful you have a bus' lark that D&G tend to do. Decent spec buses with decent promotion. Work with Macclesfield College and Congleton High (and Cheshire East Council but I think the high schools arrange some of their own buses) to get guaranteed revenue to help support the service.

Truth be told, I think the effort required to make the 38 work commercially as a half hourly service, is too much for D&G. It would take Cheshire East to take the lead and for them to do the leg work. D&G rarely takes the lead on anything which would even slightly encourage people to use their network.

Also ended up doing a trip on that 42 journey from Congleton to Crewe that gets overloaded with school passengers. If D&G know this service overloads at school times why isn't a higher capacity bus allocated to this journey or a duplicate used?
42 is a Cheshire East tender and so either 1 D&G are providing a vehicle under the contract specification, or 2 Cheshire East haven't specified in the tender for a vehicle with enough capacity.
 
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sonic2009

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42 is a Cheshire East tender and so either 1 D&G are providing a vehicle under the contract specification, or 2 Cheshire East haven't specified in the tender for a vehicle with enough capacity.
The 42 in recent days, seems to be getting at least 2 Enviro 200mmc from Macclesfield Depot & either a Streetlite or Enviro 200 from Crewe.
 

semppec

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Crewe
The 42 in recent days, seems to be getting at least 2 Enviro 200mmc from Macclesfield Depot & either a Streetlite or Enviro 200 from Crewe.
Yes it has been getting newer buses, this is because Macc have been told to put on newer buses due to the school run with Holmes Chapel and Congleton for the cameras that these buses have. Quite nice to see more modern buses on the 42 though :)
 

Baxenden Bank

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Services 27 (Bentilee - Meir Hay - Longton) and 96 (Middleport - Tunstall - Packmoor) in the Potteries commence on 14th April.
Details on bustimes.org here and here.
Both are of the five times a day, sort of hourly between school times, type.
 

mjc

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Services 27 (Bentilee - Meir Hay - Longton) and 96 (Middleport - Tunstall - Packmoor) in the Potteries commence on 14th April.
Details on bustimes.org here and here.
Both are of the five times a day, sort of hourly between school times, type.
It’ll be interesting to see a 27 on the roads again; that was a very useful service for me back in the 90s operating from (I think) Longton to Chell Heath but importantly via Fenton Manor which saved me the long walk along the (then) sixth form college’s drive to join the bus queue on Victoria Road. Bonus being it was often operated by a Knype, ugliest bus going but comfortable coach seats!
 

Baxenden Bank

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D & G service 40 (Hanley - Newstead) is withdrawn from 14th April, conveniently providing two buses to run the 27 and 96!
Withdrawn due to low passenger numbers. Well on an hourly frequency just six times per day between school times they weren't exactly going to flock to the service were they.
Service 8A re-timed to run every 70 minutes instead of every 60 from the same date.
 

Lewisham2221

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Staffordshire
D & G service 40 (Hanley - Newstead) is withdrawn from 14th April, conveniently providing two buses to run the 27 and 96!
Withdrawn due to low passenger numbers. Well on an hourly frequency just six times per day between school times they weren't exactly going to flock to the service were they.
Service 8A re-timed to run every 70 minutes instead of every 60 from the same date.
In all fairness, most of the 40 route is served by, or close to, other routes anyway. The bits left without a bus did previously have more frequent services that were removed due to, errr, low passenger numbers - so you can't really blame it on D&G.

As for the 8A, the section of route between Forest Park and Norton is something of a lottery congestion wise, so I expect the extra running time is justified however an extra vehicle to the PVR isn't (see also First's 8 and 98)
 

sonic2009

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577 was out last Wednesday 12th March. But not seen since.
577 has appeared at D&G's garage in Stoke, unsure as to why, could be for painting or for transfer. Current livery is all grey for 577.

Image taken from D&G bus enthusiasts on Facebook.
 

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33117

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Macclesfield
A good few years back DG did used to run larger single deckers. They had scania omnicities & MCV evolutions.

However now long since withdrawn but they managed the busier routes no problems whatsoever.
 

Contains Nuts

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A good few years back DG did used to run larger single deckers. They had scania omnicities & MCV evolutions.

However now long since withdrawn but they managed the busier routes no problems whatsoever.
The Scanias were airport spec with very few seats for a large bus, and the old MCV’s were the same size as the new Volvos.
 

semppec

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Crewe
Anyone know whether the 59-61 batch of Streetlites will be getting canned? Heard rumors that they may be going soon.
 

sonic2009

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Anyone know whether the 59-61 batch of Streetlites will be getting canned? Heard rumors that they may be going soon.
I haven't heard this, although the state of them isn't the best. I was on 59 the other week and the doors were faulty.

There's 2 Solo SR added into the fleet at Crewe, from Ross Travel 3011 & 3012, so they have replaced something.

Image taken from D&G bus enthusiasts on Facebook
 

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sonic2009

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I'm pretty sure it was these vehicles that I've heard drivers refering to as, errrrr, not very good...
Well id agree with errr not very good - 60 has just replaced 58 on 82 1030 Northwich-Chester, 58 was sat at Northwich Interchange with the engine door open, leaking coolant.

What a wonderful bus to go on the 82
 

sonic2009

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Wonder if it involves the bus in post 668
Can't see this happening - 577 is a Crewe Depot bus and was always seen out on the 31/37 routes (Crewe-Northwich).

Anybody know what D&G are putting on the Beartown network in Congleton frpm Monday.Have heard they are taking the two Hollinsheads Enviros on.
I've not heard anything about this, although anything is possible.

Images taken from Centrebus, Chaserider, D&G, High Peak and Select Bus Group on Facebook.

2 new 25 plate E200mmc for Crewe 5011 & 5012
 

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G760XRE

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Next of the batch of 5 B8RLE's due for Service 1 in Stoke - 6011 BU25ZCT - has entered service today. Wasn't able to get a picture, but it is tracking. See below.

 

Jase_in_CW

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Middlewich
I don’t understand. Arriva could not make services work financially in mid Cheshire and after years of decline packed it in. Arriva would cut loss making services (eg 82,130) and D&G were able to jump in with council subsidies. Most of the funded services went to D&G who undercut Arriva to obtain them. Now we have brand new buses everywhere. Are D&G favoured by the councils? You could kind of see how D&G operated in the past - low wages and old buses keeping costs down, but how can they suddenly afford brand new everywhere?
 

SeanM1997

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2 Feb 2016
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I don’t understand. Arriva could not make services work financially in mid Cheshire and after years of decline packed it in. Arriva would cut loss making services (eg 82,130) and D&G were able to jump in with council subsidies. Most of the funded services went to D&G who undercut Arriva to obtain them. Now we have brand new buses everywhere. Are D&G favoured by the councils? You could kind of see how D&G operated in the past - low wages and old buses keeping costs down, but how can they suddenly afford brand new everywhere?
D&G have only been part of Centrebus since 2019. The company may have a different direction compared to the previous owners. There's also new regulations on emissions and there have been grant funding for low emission buses especially with Stoke on Trent Council

D&G no longer facing competition from Arriva on routes such as Leighton - Brookhouse and Crewe - Macclesfield may mean their loads have improved. Perception could have improved with the new Crewe bus station too. This makes the investment more worth while and shows they have confidence in the market long term.

Hopefully D&G keeps investing. It would be good to see higher frequencies - I wish they kept the Sundays 84X as Crewe-Nantwich is such an urban corridor for Cheshire.
 

Lewisham2221

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I don’t understand. Arriva could not make services work financially in mid Cheshire and after years of decline packed it in. Arriva would cut loss making services (eg 82,130) and D&G were able to jump in with council subsidies. Most of the funded services went to D&G who undercut Arriva to obtain them. Now we have brand new buses everywhere. Are D&G favoured by the councils? You could kind of see how D&G operated in the past - low wages and old buses keeping costs down, but how can they suddenly afford brand new everywhere?
Larger companies such as Arriva (First, Stagecoach etc) have bulky, cumbersome corporate management structures with vast amounts of non-frontline staff compared to most smaller operators. Smaller companies tend to have fewer staff overall, lower wages, less substantial depot premises, more "flexible" ways of working, different accounting methods, leadership from more creative career "bus people" rather than senior management sourced from other industries etc etc etc.

All of the above puts the likes of D&G in a very competitive position for tender pricing, which will naturally include an element of profit. With further pressures on the industry and larger operators further pruning their networks this opens the door for the likes of D&G to be able to competitively operate some commercial services (those that are too marginal for the bigger operators). Overall this eventually allows operators to further invest in their operations - there's still plenty of older, less "attractive" vehicles in the D&G fleet, it's not like they've just suddenly replaced the entire fleet with brand new.
 

Dwarfer1979

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Leicester
I don’t understand. Arriva could not make services work financially in mid Cheshire and after years of decline packed it in. Arriva would cut loss making services (eg 82,130) and D&G were able to jump in with council subsidies. Most of the funded services went to D&G who undercut Arriva to obtain them. Now we have brand new buses everywhere. Are D&G favoured by the councils? You could kind of see how D&G operated in the past - low wages and old buses keeping costs down, but how can they suddenly afford brand new everywhere?
Keeping costs down is less to do with how old the buses were (they may not cost as much to buy but you spend more on maintenance and depending on age comparisons you may find fuel savings with the newer buses), it is how streamlined the company is behind the scenes and what margins you are prepared to work to. Arriva being a big group company would be looking for bigger margins and would have had more management & admin staff than someone like D&G would employ so a route that is barely breaking even for a big group operator may be comfortably commercial for a small operator with less head office & admin costs to cover. There will also be a change in vehicle deployment philosophy when you are the main operator to that you would do as secondary operator.

In terms of the new buses, in the past Centrebus & D&G have been able to source decent numbers of relatively young secondhand purchases but recently there has been a dearth of such vehicles on the secondhand market (& what there has been has often been snatched up by big operators as soon as they become available) so if you can get a decent deal then going new is probably all that is on offer. Before this big batch of new buses turned up D&G had an ageing fleet that needed replacing so someone needed to get new buses, Centrebus hasn't seen the same level of investment as they had a younger fleet at the start.

You can also see that, thanks to BSIP, some of the councils have been quite pro-active in promoting and developing their commercial networks (particularly the marginal ones) as well as their fully supported networks and new buses are often the operator contribution to these developments. Stoke appears to have been quite proactive and quite a lot of D&Gs new buses have gone there with route branding which may provide some explanation. Both Centrebus & D&G seem to have gone through periods of investment and then periods of limited investment, the couple of years before COVID (from 2017) were low investment whilst before that saw quite a few new buses (Particularly at Centrebus starting around 2013) and in the last couple of years it has picked up again. Also the group appears to have been quite successful in winning new work and as secondhand vehicles aren't as easily available as they were then again new vehicles coming from stock often have to be taken to provide the vehicles (either directly or indirectly via cascades)
 

semppec

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Crewe
Anyone know what's up with bus 5201? Last time I saw it in person it was sat outside of Middlewich Bull Ring broken down and it seems to be breaking down ever since. Can't last more than a week in service it seems and now hasn't been in service for about 50 days. It's a shame as route 37 is meant to be all MMC's but due to this bus breaking down it seems to be a couple of older buses on the route.
 

G760XRE

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Spotted at First Potteries today was B8RLE BU25ZCV. Possibly this is 6012 as its reg is consecutive from 6011, and also a First have painted many of their recent B8RLE purchases. But can anyone confirm?
 

semppec

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15 Mar 2025
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Crewe
Spotted at First Potteries today was B8RLE BU25ZCV. Possibly this is 6012 as its reg is consecutive from 6011, and also a First have painted many of their recent B8RLE purchases. But can anyone confirm?
Yes, the bus is for D&G. D&G don't have a paint shop so they pay first to do most of their repaints from now on :)
 

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