Has the reason why trains are so late being boarded at Euston ever been established? Presumably in the case of long distance, ie Avanti services, their staff would have to advise Network Rail when the train was ready, but this would surely not apply to LNWR and Overground trains, where 'by exception' boarding would apply; Unless advised otherwise arriving trains would form their diagrammed return working. There cannot be a deliberate policy to advertise trains as late as they are, can there!
Maybe the current situation with the constant cancellation of services & delays has something to do with it? Traincrew are delayed incoming, in the case of drivers they then require a PNB which due to bad diagramming means they only have the minimum time even if they had been on time, so being delayed will mean late departures. I've heard that station staff can't board a service unless they have it confirmed that a driver is there or will be within a specific time.That’s what I’d like to understand. At my London terminal platforms are pretty tightly managed, but we still seem to manage more than four minutes’ notice of departing trains!
The worst I have known at Euston was three minutes. An absolute scandal.Whilst waiting for my train, the 16:46 from Euston to Crewe, passengers were told not to wait around the platform entrances and were to told to wait in the concourse, by the third party security officers.
At around 16:40, the platform was announced and hurds of people immediately started running down to the platform, clashing with people around the food outlets.
It is quite literally an accident waiting to happen, with the amount of people tripping over each other. Even on the platform itself, passengers were running to the doors eager to get a seat.
The boarding procedure here at Euston really needs to be looked at. On multiple occasions, services are announced far too late, leading to the infamous ‘Euston scrum’.
That's barely even enough time to walk from the end of a 390/1 to the other, and they wonder why people run.The worst I have known at Euston was three minutes. An absolute scandal.
Maybe the current situation with the constant cancellation of services & delays has something to do with it? Traincrew are delayed incoming, in the case of drivers they then require a PNB which due to bad diagramming means they only have the minimum time even if they had been on time, so being delayed will mean late departures.
I've heard that station staff can't board a service unless they have it confirmed that a driver is there or will be within a specific time.
And they have their own dedicated platforms at Glasgow (And Manchester/Liverpool). Whereas at Euston it can be anywhere from 1-7 and 12-16Maybe Glasgow is different because they value the importance of the Avanti service and can concentrate resources to it, whereas at Euston it's just one Avanti train amongst many others.
Part of the reason with LNWR currently is lack of platform staff as they need to be on the platform to relay the message to release the platform information.Has the reason why trains are so late being boarded at Euston ever been established? Presumably in the case of long distance, ie Avanti services, their staff would have to advise Network Rail when the train was ready, but this would surely not apply to LNWR and Overground trains, where 'by exception' boarding would apply; Unless advised otherwise arriving trains would form their diagrammed return working. There cannot be a deliberate policy to advertise trains as late as they are, can there!
At Euston, LNWR staff will request the signal 2 minutes prior to time, then initiate dispatch process once it's 1 minute prior to departure or once signal is given thereafter.Genuine question: Is there a concept of Train Ready To Start (TRTS) plungers at Euston to initiate the signal clearing and dispatch process?
If so, why are staff operating the TRTS when a train is patently not ‘ready to start’ (I.e. passengers still coming down the ramp, with walking difficulties, heavy luggage, reservations in Coach A and so on)?
Part of the reason with LNWR currently is lack of platform staff as they need to be on the platform to relay the message to release the platform information.
It makes sense that they won't board a train until it has been cleaned, and the guard is on-board and has loaded the seat reservations. Having a train-load of passengers board before the seat reservations are up causes chaos (I know it happens on occasions, but is surely something that should not be standard practice).Maybe the current situation with the constant cancellation of services & delays has something to do with it? Traincrew are delayed incoming, in the case of drivers they then require a PNB which due to bad diagramming means they only have the minimum time even if they had been on time, so being delayed will mean late departures. I've heard that station staff can't board a service unless they have it confirmed that a driver is there or will be within a specific time.
I'm playing devil's advocate, but it's a genuine question - isn't this fairly similar to the rather ridiculous CrossCountry advance tickets booking seat reservations after the train has set off? Obviously not on the same scale, but I do wonder why messing around with seat reservations when passengers are already on board would be considered alright in one scenario, and worthy of causing a massive scrum in another.It makes sense that they won't board a train until it has been cleaned, and the guard is on-board and has loaded the seat reservations. Having a train-load of passengers board before the seat reservations are up causes chaos (I know it happens on occasions, but is surely something that should not be standard practice).
Not to mention they don't want people running but if they issue late departure notices that is what people do. I would do it.Tough. As above, the railway's failing shouldn't be the passengers' problem to solve. Start causing delays to snowball and suddenly you'll find departures announced in good time instead of four minutes before.
A lot of London terminals hae a minimum connection time of 15 minutes. If you allow 7.5 minutes to get off a train that is still 7.5 minutes remaining, which is 3.5 minutes more than they allowed customers for the 12:46.That’s what I’d like to understand. At my London terminal platforms are pretty tightly managed, but we still seem to manage more than four minutes’ notice of departing trains!
Any reason why LNWR can't have someone at Euston to conduct things? Too expensive?This might be a product of the location, and frankly seems an odd arrangement*.
*albeit I realise LNWR don’t have a depot at Euston, so that means they don’t have the luxury of a dedicated supervisor to “conduct the orchestra”, so to speak. No such excuse for Avanti, though!
Alternatively, to minimise passenger inconvenience, whilst still encouraging industry compliance through their wallet, if a platform isn't announced and opened in good time then the train should be marked as cancelled from Euston in appropriate systems, triggering delay repay and poor annual statistics. It could then be shown as on time from Milton Keynes (or wherever) onwards.If one train is going to cause that sort of backlog, cancelling it and sending it back as ECS as soon as it's tipped out may well be the best plan, particularly if it's a Manchester. But I think the problem could be avoided by not cleaning it - annoying, but better than the rush.
Why can't Euston operate like Glasgow?
Maybe Glasgow is different because they value the importance of the Avanti service and can concentrate resources to it, whereas at Euston it's just one Avanti train amongst many others.
Spot on.As a regular user of LNWR services from the station, the weirdest thing I find is the inconsistency. Sometimes the trains are announced for boarding up to 25 minutes before departure, other times as little as 2-3 minutes, even when the train is sat there, unlocked and ready for boarding, for at least 15 mins beforehand. I don't like to 100% rely on the various apps as I've been caught out before by last minute changes even when the service was showing as "At platform", but especially at busy times I'll often end up edging down the ramp just to try to get ahead of the stampedes. On other occasions the platform is announced but the train itself is locked, so you get a mini scrum at each doorway, which doesn't help either. I assume there's some reason the train can't be left open, when it's known that it'll be going back out again in 20 minutes' time?
As mentioned above, the main reason trains haven't been announced yet is staff haven't arrived at the platform and made the call to whoever needs to know.As a regular user of LNWR services from the station, the weirdest thing I find is the inconsistency. Sometimes the trains are announced for boarding up to 25 minutes before departure, other times as little as 2-3 minutes, even when the train is sat there, unlocked and ready for boarding, for at least 15 mins beforehand. I don't like to 100% rely on the various apps as I've been caught out before by last minute changes even when the service was showing as "At platform", but especially at busy times I'll often end up edging down the ramp just to try to get ahead of the stampedes. On other occasions the platform is announced but the train itself is locked, so you get a mini scrum at each doorway, which doesn't help either. I assume there's some reason the train can't be left open, when it's known that it'll be going back out again in 20 minutes' time?
They don't have train crew depot, but platform and supervisors are based there. There's even a 'station area manager' so they do have people to run the show, just a lack of platform staff recruitment.*albeit I realise LNWR don’t have a depot at Euston, so that means they don’t have the luxury of a dedicated supervisor to “conduct the orchestra”, so to speak. No such excuse for Avanti, though!
Network Rail have failed to implement, so far as is reasonably practicable, effective measures to prevent risks to health and safety of passengers (and other persons at the station) during passenger surges and overcrowding events at London Euston Station.
ORR has agreed with Network Rail to a short timescale extension to the Improvement Notice which allows the company to put the necessary control measures in place.
What does UPC stand for?
Things were infinitely more genteel amd civilized then. You arrived in good time for your train (most of the time) and had no real need to run. How different to today where a good proportion of the passengers seem to turn up on the concourse with literally minutes or even seconds to go. No doubt then platform numbers weren't supressed then either.What were the arrangements at Euston when it opened in 1966?
There wasn't the same need to sweat the assets, trains were allowed longer turnaround times and therefore waiting at the platform when people arrived to board. It's strange though, no one would dream of keeping people at the barriers at Milton Keynes Central until the train arrived then a scrum to get on, why this happens at Euston I'll never know.What were the arrangements at Euston when it opened in 1966?
"How different to today where a good proportion of the passengers seem to turn up on the concourse with literally minutes or even seconds to go. " When in doubt blame the paying customers ! ( Partly in jest).