Daughter new job in Manchester

[Tazi Hupefi]

Apologies for delving into a forum area that I have little knowledge about!

My daughter is leaving the rural East Midlands (she's thrilled!), and going to start a new role in Manchester.

Her mother and I will be making a rather large financial contribution to get her set up, but we want it to be perfect (and easy!) seeing how hard she has worked so far!

We're looking for somewhere that would be within 1 hour of central Manchester, with semi-regular services, preferably with First Class service. Her preferences so far have been around Chester and Liverpool (friends etc), so more around that part of the North West.

(Renting, no more than £900 pcm).

The ease and cost of commuting may swing it, so I'd be extremely appreciative for any assistance here on the forum for your input, in terms of suggesting any towns/cities and the best season ticket to buy (if you know any good value ones!).

To summarise the travel element:

Start the journey anywhere (nice) within 1 hour of Central Manchester, in the direction of Liverpool/Chester, (it would be nice to be able to use the ticket to both anyway).

12 months

Preferably First Class, if it's available and means a guaranteed seat.

Hopefully a good choice of what you seem to call "permitted" routes.

I don't really want to pay more than £5000 for the ticket.

 

[telstarbox]

Personally I'd live in the city centre and walk to work but given your criteria, how about Altrincham? Tram straight into city centre for work. Train to Chester and tram + train to Liverpool.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Her friends are all around Chester and Liverpool, and she seems to quite like those areas.

Definitely no trams! The first class preference is quite important I guess - she's got an idea that she'd like to use her morning commute to "ease herself" into the day, have a coffee, have some space, catch up with emails and project progress etc. She actually wants a commute!

 

[Hadders]

Stoke on Trent!

I’ve a feeling that the OP’s daughter will revise her thoughts about a commute easing oneself into the day after a few weeks...

 

[SSp]

When I lived in Manchester 2012 to 2016 a good one bed apartment in quietish Castlefield was less than £700/month. Getting into the city centre from the west really isn't relaxing...

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Things that may give you a pleasant surprise:
- the cost of commuting
- the cost of accommodation

Things that may be an unpleasant surprise
- the level of congestion
- the lack of first class accommodation

Almost all 'local' trains in the north west are standard class only. TPE does provide first class accommodation between Liverpool and Manchester, but mainly because the trains are long distance services which carry on to Yorkshire.

My feeling is that from the figures you've quoted, your daughter will be able to live wherever she wants in the North West. But by all accounts commuting in and out of Manchester (whether by road or by train) is not a great deal of fun.

 

[sheff1]

Rush hour train travel in/out of Manchester would not be my idea of easing into the day .... but if that is what she wants to do, be aware that there is no first class on the Chester routes with a limited facility on some Liverpool trains. The only routes with what many would call "proper" first class are from the Crewe/Macclesfield directions.

Personally I would use the £5000 commuting budget to bulk up the monthly rental budget for a high quality place within walking distance of work.

 

[telstarbox]

In the commuter area around Manchester, the lines with First Class accommodation are:
TransPennine Express (Liverpool - Warrington - Manchester)
Virgin Trains (Stoke or Crewe - Manchester)
CrossCountry (Stoke - Manchester)

Unless she's going to be visiting her friends every day (and working?) it would be poor value for a season ticket to cover the entire Manchester/Liverpool/Chester triangle - it's cheaper to just buy extra tickets for that on the relevant days. And one of the easiest places to get to both Liverpool and Chester is actually Manchester itself.

Bear in mind that for several months of the year, a half-hourly or longer commute means leaving the house when it's dark and getting home when it's dark. Couple this with a busy train (still possible in First Class) and it can get quite wearing. Having done it myself for a few years (into Manchester and now London) I really wouldn't opt for a longer commute than necessary, particularly as it sounds like the financial or family constraints which apply to most commuters aren't applicable in this case

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

According to http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/seasonticket/tickets

Stoke on Trent to Manchester is £7084 a year for first class - what?!

Liverpool to Manchester is only £4868 in comparison.

We haven't looked at Crewe, but it seems to be 40 mins to Liverpool, 25 mins to Chester and 30 mins to Manchester - is this pretty constant throughout the day? That may be a sweet spot.

Any thoughts on Crewe as an area? A quick glance and it seems suspiciously cheap in comparison to housing in other nearby cities/towns.

What ticket would be required from Crewe? I can't find a First Class season ticket. Does this allow travel to Chester or Liverpool as an allowed route?

 

[Quaver]

According to http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/seasonticket/tickets

Stoke on Trent to Manchester is £7084 a year for first class - what?!

Liverpool to Manchester is only £4868 in comparison.

We haven't looked at Crewe, but it seems to be 40 mins to Liverpool, 25 mins to Chester and 30 mins to Manchester - is this pretty constant throughout the day? That may be a sweet spot.

Any thoughts on Crewe as an area? A quick glance and it seems suspiciously cheap in comparison to housing in other nearby cities/towns.

What ticket would be required from Crewe? I can't find a First Class season ticket. Does this allow travel to Chester or Liverpool as an allowed route?

Crewe, not a great place in my opinion, i had an ex from there, the station is quite good but the town as a whole is not that great, its cheap for a reason tbh, and with MMU having just shut down (think this september is its last year) its only gonna get worse i think - stoke would be better.

 

[mmh]

The only trains to Manchester with first class are those run by the inter city operators, the "local" operators Northern and Arriva Trains Wales don't have first class, so there are very few places that meet that bill - personally I'd ditch it as a criteria.

Places that do are Macclesfield, Wilmslow and Warrington, however all three are only about a 20 minute journey. Macclesfield and Warrington have two trains an hour with first class, Wilmslow has only one. Macclesfield is a nice town, but not convenient for Chester or Liverpool. Wilmslow is an exceptionally expensive area. Warrington I only know from changing trains there. It's pretty much slap bang in the middle of Manchester, Chester and Liverpool with direct trains to all three taking about 30 minutes.

Liverpool and Chester themselves are possibilities, with Liverpool having the edge on convenience for the commute (depending on the journey to the station of course, it's a big place)

I think I'd choose based on the place rather than the commute, which opens up masses of possibilites from city centre in either Manchester or Liverpool to suburb or village, and go with what sort of place I prefer.

 

[gazthomas]

Her friends are all around Chester and Liverpool, and she seems to quite like those areas.

Definitely no trams! The first class preference is quite important I guess - she's got an idea that she'd like to use her morning commute to "ease herself" into the day, have a coffee, have some space, catch up with emails and project progress etc. She actually wants a commute!

This seems an odd set of priorities. She will change her opinion with cancelations, delays and bad weather!

 

[robbeech]

Yes the stoke season ticket is quite expensive. However you’ll likely get a more comprehensive first class offering including sandwiches and even an alcoholic drink if they participate in that in the evening on the way home.

 

[telstarbox]

Can we assume that your daughter will be working full time 9-5 ish and is in her 20s/30s?

Has she commuted to a job before?

 

[totally]

According to http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/seasonticket/tickets

Stoke on Trent to Manchester is £7084 a year for first class - what?!

Liverpool to Manchester is only £4868 in comparison.

We haven't looked at Crewe, but it seems to be 40 mins to Liverpool, 25 mins to Chester and 30 mins to Manchester - is this pretty constant throughout the day? That may be a sweet spot.

Any thoughts on Crewe as an area? A quick glance and it seems suspiciously cheap in comparison to housing in other nearby cities/towns.

What ticket would be required from Crewe? I can't find a First Class season ticket. Does this allow travel to Chester or Liverpool as an allowed route?

Crewe is quite a good area but as a traditional town it is not as upmarket as the areas of Cheshire which surround it ie Holmes Chapel, Sandbach are on the Manchester line. Going closer into Manchester you could on your budget maybe even consider Alderley Edge or Wilmslow. both have high frequency services into Manchester but only Wilmslow has the 1st Class option on the Virgin train from Euston.
Alternatively on the Stoke line you may like to consider Prestbury, although the service from there will not give you a first class option, just a first class place to live!

Crewe however does have the advantage that it has easy access to Manchester, Chester and Manchester. The lack of a 1st Class Season is probably because it restricts the choice of train to one per hour.

 

[northwichcat]

Alternatively on the Stoke line you may like to consider Prestbury, although the service from there will not give you a first class option, just a first class place to live!

Note the budget of £900 per month in rent. I imagine she wants to rent more than a garage.

 

[northwichcat]

We're looking for somewhere that would be within 1 hour of central Manchester, with semi-regular services, preferably with First Class service. Her preferences so far have been around Chester and Liverpool (friends etc), so more around that part of the North West.

First Class is going to be an issue. Chester to Manchester trains don't have first class and only some Liverpool to Manchester trains have it. Warrington would sound like a suitable place but as of next month it'll lose it's hourly Manchester train which has first class.

To throw a random idea in to the mix - what about Hartford - a village just outside the town of Northwich. It has two stations - one on the Birmingham to Liverpool line (which has first class) and another (Greenbank station) on a Chester to Manchester line (no first class or high quality trains but from Greenbank you won't have any problem getting a seat as it's far enough out from Manchester that you'd board before the train starts to fill up.) Annual season ticket from Greenbank to Manchester would be £2484.

 

[ag51ruk]

Crewe is quite a good area but as a traditional town it is not as upmarket as the areas of Cheshire which surround it ie Holmes Chapel, Sandbach are on the Manchester line. Going closer into Manchester you could on your budget maybe even consider Alderley Edge or Wilmslow. both have high frequency services into Manchester but only Wilmslow has the 1st Class option on the Virgin train from Euston.
Alternatively on the Stoke line you may like to consider Prestbury, although the service from there will not give you a first class option, just a first class place to live!

Crewe however does have the advantage that it has easy access to Manchester, Chester and Manchester. The lack of a 1st Class Season is probably because it restricts the choice of train to one per hour.

There is a First Crewe - Manchester season - about £3.5k from memory. Wilmslow - Manchester has First Class but you don't get a drink or food on that journey, which you would (mostly) from Crewe.

Crewe is pretty down at heel at the moment, the town centre is dying (like many other Northern towns). The local council have some grand plans, mostly connected to HS2 arriving at some point, but difficult to see it recovering IMO. The areas surrounding it are nicer but more expensive, and you add in an extra commute to get to Crewe

 

[northwichcat]

My feeling is that from the figures you've quoted, your daughter will be able to live wherever she wants in the North West. But by all accounts commuting in and out of Manchester (whether by road or by train) is not a great deal of fun.

I'm not sure. Just looking at some Cheshire towns on Right Move the cheapest property for rent costs £895 and that's for a flat you might not be successful in getting. If you want a small house it's over £1000.

 

[Joe Paxton]

This seems an odd set of priorities. She will change her opinion with cancelations, delays and bad weather!

Yes, I feel reality will bite in soon enough!

A place in central Manchester would also be my suggestion.

P.S. Trams are a great form of urban transport!

 

[northwichcat]

Yes, I feel reality will bite in soon enough!

A place in central Manchester would also be my suggestion.

P.S. Trams are a great form of urban transport!

The problem with Metrolink trams are they are very small and when infrastructure problems happen TfGM's response is simply to arrange ticket acceptance on local buses and to get the problem fixed at some point (with no rush) - the recent points failure at Cornbrook took around 8 hours to sort out!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There is First Class from Chester to Manchester Piccadilly, on Virgin Trains only, £3948 for 12 months (£2400 standard class).
This is cheaper than the £2748 (standard only) on Arriva (via Warrington) or Northern (via Northwich), but ties you to one hourly train with a change at Crewe.
Journey time on Virgin is 1h12m eastbound (xx35-xx47) and 1h17m westbound (xx55-xx12). Just 3 stops, 15/20 minute change at Crewe.

The higher fare ticket allows travel by any route, but there is no First Class on ATW or Northern.
From December, Northern will have a new limited-stop route via Warrington to Manchester Victoria, but peak hour services don't work so well.
ATW run an hourly service via Warrington to Oxford Road and Piccadilly, with a peak extra.
The Northern route via Northwich and Stockport is slower than the others.

Chester house prices are quite high, but you pay for the character.
Liverpool is an easy 45 minutes on the train (every 15 minutes).​

Wales is round the corner (cheaper housing).

 

[Gareth Marston]

A bit left field but Staylbridge will have two TPE services an hour with first class from this May. 15 minutes east of Manchester First class season is 1344.

Warrington , Helsby and Frodsham will have two class one services per hour one Northern Connect and one Wales and Border franchise. No first class but a corridor with improvements planned and well soon know what the future holds for the Welsh franchise.

 

[northwichcat]

What ticket would be required from Crewe? I can't find a First Class season ticket. Does this allow travel to Chester or Liverpool as an allowed route?

No. A Chester to Manchester ticket can be used for travel between Chester and Crewe or between Crewe and Manchester but travelling to/via Chester is certainly not permitted on a Crewe to Manchester ticket. You can get a Virgin Trains only First Class annual season ticket for Chester to Manchester for just under £4000 but obviously that won't allow your daughter to travel from Crewe to Chester on ATW services.

 

[northwichcat]

Warrington , Helsby and Frodsham will have two class one services per hour one Northern Connect and one Wales and Border franchise. No first class but a corridor with improvements planned and well soon know what the future holds for the Welsh franchise.

Warrington has a more frequent to Manchester from Warrington Central station.

Helsby, Frodsham and Runcorn East will actually have 3tph to Manchester in the morning peak and 3tph from Manchester in the evening peak - the ATW peak time extras will remain, in addition to the Northern Connect service to Victoria, when it eventually starts.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Thanks all. My daughter isn't so young, I wish we could go back to 1988

She certainly shouldn't be worrying about complimentary alcohol, her mother wouldn't be best impressed!

She has never commuted by train before, normally drives to/from Grantham, but that's about it. I'm sure it will be very busy, and she'll have to work out what she wants to do next year, but I was hoping first class may offset some of the "pain".

Our current train service is less than a handful per day thanks to woeful East Midlands! I'm not certain of her exact working hours, but it's likely to be something around 9-5.

Thank you all for the suggestions and comments - it's all a lot more complex than I thought. She really favours Liverpool, but I'm trying my best to persuade her away from there, (and the season ticket was supposed to sway her a little bit into considering other places!).

I am surprised that there is so little first class availability in the North West, I was certain these prime commuter routes would be up to scratch!

If it ends up being Liverpool-Manchester which seems to have some first class, regular services between the two cities, and a reasonable fare, is there any way of reducing the cost down from £4868?

 

[BlueFox]

Preferably First Class, if it's available and means a guaranteed seat.

First class won't guarantee a seat. I don't know what the Virgin/XC services are like into Manchester, but I've travelled first class on Transpennine into Manchester and first class had more people standing than sitting.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I would not want to live within walking distance of Crewe station, nor would I want my daughter walking around late at night in the area.

Buy a flat in Central Manchester and use the additional budget to pay the mortgage rather than lining the pockets of the rail companies.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Can I also please check that these services with first class seating go to Manchester Piccadilly? Her offices are a 5 minute walk from there.

 

[FQ]

Can I also please check that these services with first class seating go to Manchester Piccadilly? Her offices are a 5 minute walk from there.

From Liverpool the services with 1st class go into Victoria, not Piccadilly. Virgin Trains services from Crewe, Stoke etc. go into Piccadilly.