DBS checks on new applicants?

[Spankthemonkey]

Do TOC's do a DBS check on new applicants for all grades?

 

[falcon]

Be careful Woooo!

 

[BTU]

Do TOC's do a CRB check on new applicants for all grades?

Yes pretty much, why what you hiding?

 

[Mathew S]

Be very, very careful if you're asked for a DBS check that the organisation asking for it is genuinely entitled to.
A basic check (showing only unspent convictions) is fine, but TOCs are highly unlikely to be entitled to Standard or Enhanced DBS check (both show all convictions even if they are spent) for almost any role.
If you are in any doubt, you should absolutely contact the DBS yourself and raise a query about whether the role you're applying for is one that entitles the employer to the check they're asking for.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

 

[amateur]

Yes pretty much, why what you hiding?

edit. delete

 

[TheEdge]

I've never had a DBS check for three TOC roles.

To the best of my knowledge the only one that regularly does them is DRS, but they are obviously a special case, being part of the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority and having all the exceedingly sensitive work that provides them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Any employer can do a Basic DBS Check which is done via Disclosure Scotland only (they have a contract with the Government to do them for the whole UK). You can do one on yourself if you wish. It shows only unspent convictions, not any other information.

I don't see that the railway would have any justification to do a Standard or Enhanced check, particularly not the latter, though I see how DRS may be an exception for reasons of national security (do they perhaps do SC or DV Government clearing, of which a DBS type check is part?).

Nonetheless if the reason for it is "can I get away with not declaring a conviction on application", the answer is very firmly "no, you can't". If it ever came to light you would be sacked immediately for gross misconduct and find it very difficult to get any other employment.

 

[Bromley boy]

Nonetheless if the reason for it is "can I get away with not declaring a conviction on application", the answer is very firmly "no, you can't". If it ever came to light you would be sacked immediately for gross misconduct and find it very difficult to get any other employment.

I assume you're talking about unspent convictions?

For positions which aren't eligible for standard or enhanced checks, there is no requirement to disclose "spent" convictions even if asked (these would not show up on a standard check). It would also be unlawful for the employer to discriminate against you if these were to come to light through other means.

The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 is the relevant legislation and the below yougov link is quite useful.

https://www.gov.uk/exoffenders-and-employment

 

[blackfrost]

Only TOC I've applied to that stated it does DBS check is London Overground

 

[kevconnor]

I would guess there are different rules for DRS if ever they recruit for drivers for work on nuclear transportation.

 

[scotraildriver]

I had an enhanced check when I joined Scotrail based on the fact we work "school" trains/contracts. Although that was 12 years ago it seems to still be the same.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I assume you're talking about unspent convictions?

Yes (unless the question specifically asks for spent ones, though I don't know the legality of asking for that).

 

[Bromley boy]

I had an enhanced check when I joined Scotrail based on the fact we work "school" trains/contracts. Although that was 12 years ago it seems to still be the same.

Out of interest did you join as a driver?

If so it seems a bit dubious to be asked for an enhanced check as you're not actually working directly with children/vulnerable people. I wonder if this is still their policy.

 

[Bromley boy]

Yes (unless the question specifically asks for spent ones, though I don't know the legality of asking for that).

I'm not aware of anything directly prohibiting the question being asked.

However - much like asking for age/ethnicity - I'd imagine most HR teams would regard asking for these details as poor practice as: 1. Employees are entitled by law to omit to disclose spent convictions; 2. asking for this info raises the possibility of the employer using the information to unlawfully discriminate on the basis of spent convictions.

 

[blackfrost]

Forgot as well. A colleague of mine went to work at London Midland as a conductor and he told me they do a criminal record checks there although I'm sure it doesn't state this on the careers website

 

[Bletchleyite]

Out of interest did you join as a driver?

If so it seems a bit dubious to be asked for an enhanced check as you're not actually working directly with children/vulnerable people. I wonder if this is still their policy.

Would be interesting, as train drivers/guards in no way engage in "the teaching and training of children" nor any of the other stipulations. Mind you, it's stricter than it was, Scouting used to DBS check all adult members without exception and it's no longer allowed to do that (much to its distaste as it leaves an obvious gap).

 

[Mathew S]

I had an enhanced check when I joined Scotrail based on the fact we work "school" trains/contracts. Although that was 12 years ago it seems to still be the same.

The system re: who can/can't be checked and at what level is different in Scotland to England & Wales. That probably wouldn't be legal south of the border; unless it was a dedicated school train service in the same way as a dedicated school bus service.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

 

[Mathew S]

Would be interesting, as train drivers/guards in no way engage in "the teaching and training of children" nor any of the other stipulations. Mind you, it's stricter than it was, Scouting used to DBS check all adult members without exception and it's no longer allowed to do that (much to its distaste as it leaves an obvious gap).

Bus drivers on school buses are deemed to be regularly (legally more than once in 30 days) caring for the same kids, hence they can be checked. Only applies to dedicated school services though (e.g. the yellow school buses here in on Greater Manchester).

Sxiuys are allowed to check almost anyone over 18 because hardly ever will they only have contact only once in 30 days. There's also a provision about checking anyone involved in caring for kids overnight, e.g. camps, which covers even more.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sxiuys are allowed to check almost anyone over 18 because hardly ever will they only have contact only once in 30 days. There's also a provision about checking anyone involved in caring for kids overnight, e.g. camps, which covers even more.

The stipulation legally for an Enhanced check and a check on the barred list relevant to Scouting is "once a week[1] or more, or more than 4 times in a month, or overnight" (the latter being defined as something like 1am-5am, though I forget exactly). So, for example, those on a parent rota can't be checked (which makes them less useful, as the Scout Association's policy is that someone who hasn't been checked requires direct supervision by another adult at all times).

FWIW Scouting is not legally defined as childcare (despite what some think), it comes under "teaching and/or training of children". Not sure what a school bus driver comes under, I guess another stipulation.

[1] It was originally "more than once a month" but the Tories backed it off to "once a week or more". That has changed (reduced) things massively in terms of who is eligible for a check.

 

[Mathew S]

I'm not aware of anything directly prohibiting the question being asked.

However - much like asking for age/ethnicity - I'd imagine most HR teams would regard asking for these details as poor practice as: 1. Employees are entitled by law to omit to disclose spent convictions; 2. asking for this info raises the possibility of the employer using the information to unlawfully discriminate on the basis of spent convictions.

It's is illegal under the 1984 Rehabilitation of Offenders legislation to even ask about spent convictions unless the job role that's being recruited for is 'exempt' e.g. teaching, doctor, social work, etc.

There's also a specific offence of asking for a Standard or Enhanced DBS check that isn't appropriate. Both the company/organisation and the person within it who signs for the check, can be prosecuted.

Though obviously this doesn't include SC, CTC or DV checking for a security clearance, which would cover spent convictions and much more besides. DRS do this because of the nuclear trains, and National Rail for some more senaitive roles as well.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

 

[scotraildriver]

As I though, all of the jobs currently advertised at Scotrail are subject to "disclosure Scotland clearance." So they appear to still be checking everyone.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As I though, all of the jobs currently advertised at Scotrail are subject to "disclosure Scotland clearance." So they appear to still be checking everyone.

Is that the Basic check, though? (Anyone can do one of those, and it's perfectly legal to require one - indeed I'm quite surprised more employers don't).