Deansgate; Manchester too busy? Close the station!

[Howardh]

Christmas travel advice ‪#‎HoHoHo‬

Here's a friendly festive reminder about ‪#‎Deansgate‬ station over the Christmas period:

• Deansgate Station will be closed every Friday and Saturday from 18:00 for the duration of Manchester Christmas Markets (the remaining dates are 17 & 28 November, 4 & 5, 11&12, 18 & 19 December)

• From Deansgate, the last train to Liverpool leaves at 17:46 and the last train to Manchester Oxford Road leaves at 17:32.

https://www.facebook.com/northernrailorg/?fref=nf

Think you have to be on facebook to work the link but I'm sure this info is available elsewhere. Strangely nothing yet on Northere's website http://www.northernrail.org/ (probably late or cancelled )

Anyway, if a station's too small to cope, or the trains too full to let anyone on....close the station. Makes sense??
Deansgate and Oxford Rad are very close to each other, but Deansgate is popular with all the nightlife nearby.

Thoughts?

 

[PHILIPE]

Cardiff Queen St is closed after big sporting events at the Millenium Stadium.
This, and the reasoning behind it, has been well documented on the Forum.

 

[sheff1]

Anyway, if a station's too small to cope, or the trains too full to let anyone on....close the station. Makes sense??

Thoughts?

Makes perfect sense. Holloway Tube station near to Arsenal FC is closed to boarding passengers after matches as it is too small to handle the crowds safely.

No real issues for passengers in either case as more suitable stations for the numbers involved are located a short walk away.

 

[Howardh]

Makes perfect sense. Holloway Tube station near to Arsenal FC is closed to boarding passengers after matches as it is too small to handle the crowds safely.

No real issues for passengers in either case as more suitable stations for the numbers involved are located a short walk away.

I'm not fussed either way, but I would have thought the station could be left open to allow inbound trains to set down, as long as pax knew not to return there.

Should save a couple of minutes on the outbound trains that don't have to stop there!

 

[telstarbox]

If it's shut the station staff can be redeployed elsewhere to help with crowds.

 

[Altfish]

It is a handy interchange with the trams and useful for events at Manchester Central but it is in a bad place on a 2-line section of very busy line.

 

[Rail Bus]

It is a handy interchange with the trams and useful for events at Manchester Central but it is in a bad place on a 2-line section of very busy line.

always seems that more could be made of Deansgate, good access to that whole end of Manchester and as you say good Metrolink interchange, which Oxford Road lacks

 

[mpb56125]

Almost every Friday & Saturday evening in November and December during 2014 at least one train was always stood for over 20 minutes in Deansgate awaiting police due to severe over crowding. At least at Oxford Road you have alternate platforms to work round with.

Mark
http://www.mark5812.smugmug.com

 

[Bevan Price]

A lot of trains depart from Oxford Road already jammed full with standing passengers - probably no room for any more when they reach Deansgate.

 

[Altfish]

Isn't the answer to overcrowding, longer trains not shutting stations?

Oh, I forget this is part of the Northern Power Failure:roll:

 

[thenorthern]

I am not surprised they are closing the station during this period as for an inner-city station Deansgate is rather small and the platforms are rather narrow which given the amount of passing trains could cause potential problems.

If it's shut the station staff can be redeployed elsewhere to help with crowds.

I think Northern Rail have a dedicated unit for that. They have a team in Police style clothing saying "Rail Response Unit".

 

[1D53]

Isn't the answer to overcrowding, longer trains not shutting stations?

Oh, I forget this is part of the Northern Power Failure:roll:

So the above posts saying the same is doing at Cardiff, Emirates and Wembley? Is that Northern power failure too? Grow up.

 

[Altfish]

Grow up.

Thanks for the advice

 

[WatcherZero]

Been on a couple that were too full to accept more at Deansgate and passengers rioted. A whole host of issues come together, anything that stops there is essentially blocking the line until it departs, long dwell times when crowds, not all services are scheduled to stop so the ones that do will be more crowded, not enough capacity on the trains.

 

[Howardh]

To a mere bystander, if a train gets almost full at Piccadilly, and then packed to the roof @ Oxford Road, no-one can get on at Deansgate.
Why not have every other train not stopping at each?
So the first train to Southport stops @ Oxford Rd but not Deansgate....the second 'tother way round, which as these times is well known in advance they could be timetabled accordingly.

But really we need more and longer trains.....however we don't live in Utopia.

 

[WatcherZero]

You would just be moving the crammed trains from Deansgate backwards to Oxford Road as by some services skipping your increasing the amount that have to get on the remaining.

 

[Bevan Price]

Isn't the answer to overcrowding, longer trains not shutting stations?

Oh, I forget this is part of the Northern Power Failure:roll:

The only way that might happen is if DfT staff & government ministers were compelled to travel from Deansgate every day. Then they might just recognise the stupidity of short trains on busy lines.

 

[causton]

Thanks for the advice

You won't elaborate on your point of view any further?

It happens a lot in other places and it has been said on this forums over and over again (particularly Cardiff's example) why it is the best for everyone!

 

[Wolfie]

The only way that might happen is if DfT staff & government ministers were compelled to travel from Deansgate every day. Then they might just recognise the stupidity of short trains on busy lines.

Is this really a problem every day? The specific example quoted is distinctly seasonal. Bluntly what I have seen of "crowded" trains in the North would be regarded as a quiet day on most London commutes.

Isn't the answer to overcrowding, longer trains not shutting stations?

Oh, I forget this is part of the Northern Power Failure:roll:

So you expect there to be a significant investment in rolling stock for a problem which appears to arise for a few weekends each year? This for a franchise which bleeds money and at a time when heavy cuts in public expenditure are being made.....

 

[Scouseinmanc]

So the above posts saying the same is doing at Cardiff, Emirates and Wembley? Is that Northern power failure too? Grow up.

Why are some people so rude & dismissive of others on here?!?

When I first joined, I posted a comment (can't remember what - I've slept a lot since), only to be shot down by another user.

There are some very nice forummers on here, buty there are some right cantankerous souls, which doesn't make for pleasant reading.

Altfish is a regular on Skyscrapercity & makes many extremely informative posts.

Rather than posting nasty comments, 'grow up' & just think of it in your head...

 

[Altfish]

So you expect there to be a significant investment in rolling stock for a problem which appears to arise for a few weekends each year? This for a franchise which bleeds money and at a time when heavy cuts in public expenditure are being made.....

No.
This happens outside rush hour; so there will be units available to strengthen the affected trains.
Money, money, money...what about public safety, public convenience?
Closing the station helps no one

 

[Moonshot]

No.
This happens outside rush hour; so there will be units available to strengthen the affected trains.
Money, money, money...what about public safety, public convenience?
Closing the station helps no one

What hasnt been mentioned on this thread so far is that Deansgate has very curved platforms and its impossible for the guard to see the full length of the train if working a 4 car unit. Arriving with a full train onto an overcrowded station platform with a significant bend in it would be a worry bearing in mind there is currently a legal case pending against a Merseyrail guard.

 

[Domh245]

Altfish may well make informative posts on other forums, but users who use phrases such as 'DaFT' and 'Northern Powercut' will make me take a more doubtful look at their post. It smacks of immaturity.

Don't forget that during the off-peak, many units are put away to be checked over, cleaned, fuelled, etc. Using this argument against London Midland may stand, when they sit a lot of 350s in Camden Sidings all day, but Northern is stretched for stock.

As for the suggestion that closing the station endangers public safety, I am not sure that I can agree with you on that! I would argue that closing it does exactly the opposite, prevent scrums and potentially preventing people from falling onto the tracks if it were particularly busy. Sure it goes against public convenience, but it is a ~10 minute walk, which isn't really anything major. Hardly something to be up in arms over.

 

[HowardGWR]

Camden Town can be added to the list.

 

[Altfish]

Altfish may well make informative posts on other forums, but users who use phrases such as 'DaFT' and 'Northern Powercut' will make me take a more doubtful look at their post. It smacks of immaturity.

Don't forget that during the off-peak, many units are put away to be checked over, cleaned, fuelled, etc. Using this argument against London Midland may stand, when they sit a lot of 350s in Camden Sidings all day, but Northern is stock.stretched for

As for the suggestion that closing the station endangers public safety, I am not sure that I can agree with you on that! I would argue that closing it does exactly the opposite, prevent scrums and potentially preventing people from falling onto the tracks if it were particularly busy. Sure it goes against public convenience, but it is a ~10 minute walk, which isn't really anything major. Hardly something to be up in arms over.

Another immature response.

OK Northern Powercut is a cheap shot however "...but Northern is stretched for stock." supports my assertions. btw I am aware that stock is checked overnight

How do they manage at Old Trafford and Etihad Campus tram stops? Do they cancel trams or close the stops because there are large numbers at the end of the game/concert?
No, they control the crowds entering the platforms. They have been doing it at Old Trafford since the 60's, that I am aware of, when it was Warwick Road and it was a BR station.

Perhaps you could also explain to my 84-year old father how short a walk it is to Oxford Road.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Did anyone see the Great Western Trains documentary series? One of the programmes was about how they catered for Glastonbury, was it at Castle Carey?

Guess what? The station remained open

 

[CdBrux]

Isn't part of the issue that Manchester City council are putting on an event (Christmas markets) that is causing a demand to the point the infrastructure cannot cope? They would refuse planning permission for buildings if the local water supply / sewage / electric supply capacity etc... was insufficient, but yet they let this go on. Why shouldn't they pay for some extra capacity (assuming rolling stock can be found)?

 

[Puffing Devil]

Another immature response.

OK Northern Powercut is a cheap shot however "...but Northern is stretched for stock." supports my assertions. btw I am aware that stock is checked overnight

How do they manage at Old Trafford and Etihad Campus tram stops? Do they cancel trams or close the stops because there are large numbers at the end of the game/concert?
No, they control the crowds entering the platforms. They have been doing it at Old Trafford since the 60's, that I am aware of, when it was Warwick Road and it was a BR station.

Perhaps you could also explain to my 84-year old father how short a walk it is to Oxford Road.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Did anyone see the Great Western Trains documentary series? One of the programmes was about how they catered for Glastonbury, was it at Castle Carey?

Guess what? The station remained open

For City Games the surrounding tram stops are not called at until the Etihad queue has cleared. There is also active queue management at the Etihad which (surprisingly) seems to have been built with the potential peak traffic in mind.

 

[Howardh]

What strikes me is the pax who would have used Deansgate will still need to get home, so they will all toddle off down to an already packed Oxford Road to add to those already there.
Will we be having/or have we already had....the situation like some stations in London where the station (Ox Rd) is too full and they won't let any more in, and they close that down for a time?
I'm actually quite surprised that NR hasn't decreed that in the 5 Friday's and Saturdays to Xmas that they are peak hours all day, which might shift some onto the bus! Is there any "law" prohibiting a TOC declaring a Saturday as "peak"?
But my suggestion if there are too few seats for too many passengers would be to co-join with the council and have extra buses from the two stations (like RRB's) to get pax to places like Bolton and Wigan where they could connect to trains (which should be partially emptying) from there.

 

[LeylandLen]

Man Utd have home games at Old Trafford on Dec 5th and 19th with 1500 starts finishing near 1700 ; many fans use Deansgate for interchange after the game. Having 75000 at each game will only add to pressure on public transport and the roads ...

 

[jonty14]

Why are some people so rude & dismissive of others on here?!?

When I first joined, I posted a comment (can't remember what - I've slept a lot since), only to be shot down by another user.

There are some very nice forummers on here, buty there are some right cantankerous souls, which doesn't make for pleasant reading.


Altfish is a regular on Skyscrapercity & makes many extremely informative posts.

Rather than posting nasty comments, 'grow up' & just think of it in your head...

Well said. You can’t ask a question without being shot down. Especially if you are an enthusiast.