December 2023 Timetable Change

[43055]

As a user of the Derby to Stoke line for Saturday footie and occasional Uttoxeter racing I consider that being one of the few east west rail links in the midlands it is woefully underused given its potential. Leaving that aside it seems no one with any rail clout is pressing EMR to reinstate the precovid daytime hourly service hence the continuing gaps already mentioned.Other lines within EMR seem to have fared much better e.g. the Matlock branch.If EMR can provide an hourly service on Saturday why can’t this become the norm? And while I’m on my soapbox does anyone believe this line will ever get a better Sunday service?

The sticking point with Sundays is the signal boxes between Stenson Junction and Stoke don't open until around 1400 so until they open earlier you can't run any earlier on Sundays. I can't really see any more excuses for the Monday to Saturday missing trains when recent weekends has seen a number of strengthened services on the Crewe and Matlock routes so it is not like EMR don't have the trains to reinstate the services.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

As a user of the Derby to Stoke line for Saturday footie and occasional Uttoxeter racing I consider that being one of the few east west rail links in the midlands it is woefully underused given its potential. Leaving that aside it seems no one with any rail clout is pressing EMR to reinstate the precovid daytime hourly service hence the continuing gaps already mentioned.Other lines within EMR seem to have fared much better e.g. the Matlock branch.If EMR can provide an hourly service on Saturday why can’t this become the norm? And while I’m on my soapbox does anyone believe this line will ever get a better Sunday service?

An all day Sunday service was promised as part of the EMR franchise. It should have happened by now. With Covid, franchises no longer being in force and cutbacks to save money, I guess it may never happen now.

 

[LowLevel]

As a user of the Derby to Stoke line for Saturday footie and occasional Uttoxeter racing I consider that being one of the few east west rail links in the midlands it is woefully underused given its potential. Leaving that aside it seems no one with any rail clout is pressing EMR to reinstate the precovid daytime hourly service hence the continuing gaps already mentioned.Other lines within EMR seem to have fared much better e.g. the Matlock branch.If EMR can provide an hourly service on Saturday why can’t this become the norm? And while I’m on my soapbox does anyone believe this line will ever get a better Sunday service?

It's wedged and can't cope with the passenger loading it has as it is. I keep a log of my passenger figures and trains that carried 20 people 5 years ago are pushing over the 100 mark now. The busy trains are leaving people behind frequently.

The problem is that much of the loading is connections - Nottingham to Scotland and the North West/North Wales - so it doesn't exactly pull through as local journeys on a regional service.

 

[Llandudno]

It's wedged and can't cope with the passenger loading it has as it is. I keep a log of my passenger figures and trains that carried 20 people 5 years ago are pushing over the 100 mark now. The busy trains are leaving people behind frequently.

The problem is that much of the loading is connections - Nottingham to Scotland and the North West/North Wales - so it doesn't exactly pull through as local journeys on a regional service.

I guess most the growth on this line is due to the increased use of journey planning apps which now suggest this route for many east-west journeys.

There are also some fare advantages, which are highlighted on booking apps can save a decent amount of money compared to using Cross Country via Birmingham or Tamworth or EMR via Sheffield and the Hope Valley.

I guess the cuts since Covid in Cross Country services between Derby and Birmingham and the resulting overcrowding have encouraged people to try the Uttoxeter route…

 

[ChrisC]

I guess most the growth on this line is due to the increased use of journey planning apps which now suggest this route for many east-west journeys.

Since the through service from Nottingham to Crewe has been restored it has made journeys from Nottingham to many destinations in the NW and even more so to Glasgow far easier. The only down side is that connections at Crewe are very tight and so even a few minutes late running can result in a missed connection. Nottingham to Glasgow had become very tedious with very few Scotland services stopping at Grantham and also XC terminating most of their trains at Edinburgh and not running through to Glasgow. You can do it with one change at Manchester Piccadilly but some connections are not brilliant even if TPE actually turn up. I can fully understand why the route via Crewe is now so busy.

 

[cle]

I would love to see Nottingham-Glasgow figures? Is there any meaningful connection between them?

I would think it was Nottingham (and Derby) to Stoke, Liverpool, Manchester, Chester/NW, Preston/Blackpool even. Even though there is a single direct service, it is slow and unreliable - and the reversal at Sheffield is frustrating. Stoke specifically offers multiple fast Manchester services on longer, better trains - as does Crewe for Liverpool and Lancs/Lakes.

No wonder it is being used more - I agree, it's a very underused corridor and more regional express services would be an interesting thing to explore.

 

[LowLevel]

I would love to see Nottingham-Glasgow figures? Is there any meaningful connection between them?

I would think it was Nottingham (and Derby) to Stoke, Liverpool, Manchester, Chester/NW, Preston/Blackpool even. Even though there is a single direct service, it is slow and unreliable - and the reversal at Sheffield is frustrating. Stoke specifically offers multiple fast Manchester services on longer, better trains - as does Crewe for Liverpool and Lancs/Lakes.

No wonder it is being used more - I agree, it's a very underused corridor and more regional express services would be an interesting thing to explore.

I check plenty of Scottish tickets on those trains. Had Dumfries, Dunblane, Edinburgh, Glasgow Central, Kilmarnock Maryhill and various others today alone.

 

[The exile]

I check plenty of Scottish tickets on those trains. Had Dumfries, Dunblane, Edinburgh, Glasgow Central, Kilmarnock Maryhill and various others today alone.

There are presumably still plenty of families with Scottish connections in the Corby area.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

There are presumably still plenty of families with Scottish connections in the Corby area.

Is that a historical connection related to the coal mining industry?

 

[dk1]

Is that a historical connection related to the coal mining industry?

Steel production I think.

 

[yorksrob]

Not trouser presses ?

 

[Bald Rick]

Not trouser presses ?

Nope.

Kilt presses.

 

[yorksrob]

Nope.

Kilt presses.

That makes more sense

 

[greyman42]

Steel production I think.

That's correct.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

GWR HSTs (already only booked Mon-Sat) will be confined to Plymouth - Penzance shuttles from the timetable change. One service from Plymouth will continue to Exeter on weekdays.

The Cornish Main Line continues to have 2-3tph all day despite the reigning in of Castle sets. Services between Plymouth and Penzance will be booked as follows:

0533 Plymouth - Penzance IET
0638 Plymouth - Penzance HST
0712 Plymouth - Penzance IET
0743 Plymouth - Penzance 158 (from Exeter St. David's)
0809 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Bristol Temple Meads)
0847 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Exeter St. David's)
0912 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Bristol Temple Meads)
0945 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1015 Plymouth - Penzance HST
1042 Plymouth - Penzance HST
1120 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1142 Plymouth - Penzance HST
1219 Plymouth - Penzance 158
1243 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)
1310 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1342 Plymouth - Penzance IET
1418 Plymouth - Penzance IET
1446 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)
1515 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1547 Plymouth - Penzance HST
1555 Plymouth - Penzance HST
1647 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)
1700 Plymouth - Liskeard 158
1722 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1746 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)
1821 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1830 Plymouth - Penzance IET
1856 Plymouth - Penzance XC (from Edinburgh)
1925 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1949 Plymouth - Penzance XC (from Aberdeen)
2029 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
2117 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
2146 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)
2238 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)

Some were worried Cornish Main Line would go to hourly!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

GWR HSTs (already only booked Mon-Sat) will be confined to Plymouth - Penzance shuttles from the timetable change. One service from Plymouth will continue to Exeter on weekdays.

The Cornish Main Line continues to have 2-3tph all day despite the reigning in of Castle sets. Services between Plymouth and Penzance will be booked as follows:

0533 Plymouth - Penzance IET
0638 Plymouth - Penzance HST
0712 Plymouth - Penzance IET
0743 Plymouth - Penzance 158 (from Exeter St. David's)
0809 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Bristol Temple Meads)
0847 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Exeter St. David's)
0912 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Bristol Temple Meads)
0945 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1015 Plymouth - Penzance HST
1042 Plymouth - Penzance HST
1120 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1142 Plymouth - Penzance HST
1219 Plymouth - Penzance 158
1243 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)
1310 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1342 Plymouth - Penzance IET
1418 Plymouth - Penzance IET
1446 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)
1515 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1547 Plymouth - Penzance HST
1555 Plymouth - Penzance HST
1647 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)
1700 Plymouth - Liskeard 158
1722 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1746 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)
1821 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1830 Plymouth - Penzance IET
1856 Plymouth - Penzance XC (from Edinburgh)
1925 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1949 Plymouth - Penzance XC (from Aberdeen)
2029 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
2117 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
2146 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)
2238 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)

Some were worried Cornish Main Line would go to hourly!

Looks like you’ve picked up a couple of STP changes there in the evening due to the Devon Banks re-signalling which replaces the 21.00 Penzance to Exeter with a bus from Plymouth.

The 18.30 Plymouth to Penzance and 21.00 Penzance to Exeter are booked cl158 however for the first couple of months they are an IET sub under STP.

 

[infobleep]

If the hourly fast services from Reading to Gatwick Airport stopped additionally at Dorking West, would the train need to depart Reading earlier?

Unlike Dorking Deepdene, Dorking West offers step free access.

Services will be 1 train every two hours for parts of the day.

 

[BrianB]

https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nrt/dec2023/

The full December National Rail Timetable is now available to view

 

[Jamesrob637]

GWR HSTs (already only booked Mon-Sat) will be confined to Plymouth - Penzance shuttles from the timetable change. One service from Plymouth will continue to Exeter on weekdays.

The Cornish Main Line continues to have 2-3tph all day despite the reigning in of Castle sets. Services between Plymouth and Penzance will be booked as follows:

0533 Plymouth - Penzance IET
0638 Plymouth - Penzance HST
0712 Plymouth - Penzance IET
0743 Plymouth - Penzance 158 (from Exeter St. David's)
0809 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Bristol Temple Meads)
0847 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Exeter St. David's)
0912 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Bristol Temple Meads)
0945 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1015 Plymouth - Penzance HST
1042 Plymouth - Penzance HST
1120 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1142 Plymouth - Penzance HST
1219 Plymouth - Penzance 158
1243 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)
1310 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1342 Plymouth - Penzance IET
1418 Plymouth - Penzance IET
1446 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)
1515 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1547 Plymouth - Penzance HST
1555 Plymouth - Penzance HST
1647 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)
1700 Plymouth - Liskeard 158
1722 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1746 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)
1821 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1830 Plymouth - Penzance IET
1856 Plymouth - Penzance XC (from Edinburgh)
1925 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
1949 Plymouth - Penzance XC (from Aberdeen)
2029 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
2117 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from London Paddington)
2146 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)
2238 Plymouth - Penzance IET (from Cardiff Central)

Some were worried Cornish Main Line would go to hourly!

That's impressive. Cornwall has never known things so good since the 1960s.

 

[JonathanH]

If the hourly fast services from Reading to Gatwick Airport stopped additionally at Dorking West, would the train need to depart Reading earlier?

Unlike Dorking Deepdene, Dorking West offers step free access.

Services will be 1 train every two hours for parts of the day.

There has been one train every two hours at Dorking West for a long time, although the nature of that train has changed, and will reach both Reading and Gatwick off-peak from December 2023. It will have an hourly service in the peaks.

While Dorking West offers step free access, it isn't a particularly well sited station, nor does it have any facilities.

The timing of the relevant train appears to be constrained by other services at Guildford.

 

[infobleep]

There has been one train every two hours at Dorking West for a long time, although the nature of that train has changed, and will reach both Reading and Gatwick off-peak from December 2023. It will have an hourly service in the peaks.

While Dorking West offers step free access, it isn't a particularly well sited station, nor does it have any facilities.

The timing of the relevant train appears to be constrained by other services at Guildford.

It has indeed been like it for years but then terminating the stopping trains at Redhill was like that for years but they have now changed it.

It isn't perictularly convenient but at one stage, there was a sign at Dorking Deepdene, which said their was step free access at Dorking West. It make no reference to the service being 2 hourly though. No idea if the sign is still there. Where convenient or not, a wheel chair user cannot access Dorking Deepdene.

Trains are constrained by services at Guildford but they have managed to stop the train at Dorking West in the evening every hour between 16:38 and 20:37 , so I was just wondering if it was possible.

 

[The exile]

I’ve been on a service that did an additional stop at D West to set down an obvious local/ regular in a wheelchair. No idea how official it was - but it saved me a walk as well!

 

[Minstral25]

It has indeed been like it for years but then terminating the stopping trains at Redhill was like that for years but they have now changed it.

It isn't perictularly convenient but at one stage, there was a sign at Dorking Deepdene, which said their was step free access at Dorking West. It make no reference to the service being 2 hourly though. No idea if the sign is still there. Where convenient or not, a wheel chair user cannot access Dorking Deepdene.

Trains are constrained by services at Guildford but they have managed to stop the train at Dorking West in the evening every hour between 16:38 and 20:37 , so I was just wondering if it was possible.

I understand it is possible to have more calls but they don’t think it will be used.

It was a point made at timetable discussions and my impression from the timetablers was the time allowance was worth more than a call. One for the future.

 

[JonathanH]

Dorking West is basically a station by a scrapyard and uphill from the town. Stopping more trains wouldn't move the demand away from Deepdene.

It is fairly clear that Deepdene is the better station to stop at, other than the fact its access is so unfortunate, being just a wooden halt up a steep flight of stairs.

Given how much was spent at Gomshall installing the footbridge, it is a shame a solution hasn't been found for Deepdene station, but the railway doesn't have a lot of land to utilise there.

 

[DelW]

Dorking West is basically a station by a scrapyard and uphill from the town. Stopping more trains wouldn't move the demand away from Deepdene.

It is fairly clear that Deepdene is the better station to stop at, other than the fact its access is so unfortunate, being just a wooden halt up a steep flight of stairs.

While Dorking West (nee Town) isn't in the most salubrious part of the town, it is much closer to the old centre around West St and South St than Deepdene is. I've always thought that if it had a better service than 1tp2h it might get reasonable passenger numbers.

 

[FenMan]

While Dorking West (nee Town) isn't in the most salubrious part of the town, it is much closer to the old centre around West St and South St than Deepdene is. I've always thought that if it had a better service than 1tp2h it might get reasonable passenger numbers.

For selfish reasons I'd like to see more stops at Dorking West, if only for the nearby micropub and football ground. But Dorking is a small town and being served by three stations on two lines makes it one of best (rail) connected small towns in the country as it is.

 

[infobleep]

I understand it is possible to have more calls but they don’t think it will be used.

It was a point made at timetable discussions and my impression from the timetablers was the time allowance was worth more than a call. One for the future.

It might mot be well used but then most of the population are not in wheelchairs, so most wheelchair facilities aimed at wheelchair users are not well used. That is if you include the rest of the population.

 

[JonathanH]

It might mot be well used but then most of the population are not in wheelchairs, so most wheelchair facilities aimed at wheelchair users are not well used. That is if you include the rest of the population.

Dorking West may not have steps but it isn't really a suitable station for someone in a wheelchair either. More suitable than Dorking Deepdene obviously but still unsuitable due to access and facilities.

 

[MasterPhillips]

GWR are running 3 additional services on Saturdays, between 1000 and 130 from Swindon to London using class 387s. Will call at Didcot , Reading then Paddington. Glad to see they are able to add these services at times when they are really needed. Especially given the capacity of the 387s.

 

[infobleep]

Dorking West may not have steps but it isn't really a suitable station for someone in a wheelchair either. More suitable than Dorking Deepdene obviously but still unsuitable due to access and facilities.

Well the sign at Dorking Deepdene proclaimed Dorking West to be step-free and made no reference to it not being suitable for wheelchair users. I don't know if this sign is still at Dorking Deepdene though.