December 2024 timetable change

[YorkRailFan]

Is the 1642 Kings Cross - Peterborough a new addition onto the timetable?

Yes, meaning that there will be a half-hourly GN service between KGX and Peterborough between 16:42 and 18:12.

 

[Robski]

Is the 1642 Kings Cross - Peterborough a new addition onto the timetable?

No, it exists in the current timetable but as a Q train (runs as required). Apparently it is due to start running in October.

 

[Timmyd]

The 0750 and 0820 were both supplemented by ECS services from Victoria which have now been diverted elsewhere to accommodate the new services. One of them is the aforementioned replacement service from Sutton and the other is the 0903 from Norwood Junction to London Bridge

This is very irritating if there are to be no direct replacements. I recall they were introduced since the replacement of 8 car 455s by 6 car 377s led to a big reduction in capacity and trains were full by the Dulwich stations on the busy midweek days. These two empty 8 car trains have made a big difference and were much needed

 

[Harpo]

Its a shame there's no filler Crewe - Chester - Crewe on hours that Avanti do not operate. The current hourly TfW service is often standing only in hours that its the only service as provides a useful connection between North Wales and the Midlands.

Shh. I’m not sure TfW want passengers to know it’s faster via Crewe.

 

[moonarrow458]

Another very small change for London Overground but good for the track bashers is that on Monday to Thursday evenings the 2342 ECS from Enfield Town to Liverpool Street will be converted to passenger service calling at all stations to Seven Sisters, then non-stop to Liverpool Street, via the South Tottenham Curves

 

[Bikeman78]

RTT seems to have them pathed as class 150s. I really hope that’s wrong

To be fair, a 40 minute stopping train is exactly what they were built for. A 75 mph schedule means that anything can be used and still keep time. I doubt a 158 would get over 75 anyway.

 

[Northern158170]

It’s still a massive comfort downgrade from anything else in their fleet and especially from the 185s. Certainly much worse than a 158

 

[Bikeman78]

Yes. Both coastways are too busy to have one or both operate as a 4 car versus catering to the CLJ - BTN flow given it's a couple mins connection at HHE (amongst other stations)

A couple of minutes? The connections don't work particularly well at Haywards Heath in either direction.

There are still 5 services that stand for 19 minutes at New Street and continue to do so from December according to current uploads.

Journey times to Wolves on direct trains from London are so awful that even the NRES journey planner offers 'via Stafford' as the faster option, sometimes saving more than 30 minutes by leaving later yet still arriving before the direct train!

I hadn't realised how dire the current Avanti service is to Birmingham. The two down trains are only eight minutes apart arriving into New Street.

Probably because it gets more and more 'gold plated' every time it is suggested - the last iteration involved building a large road bridge in the middle of an SSSI amongst other crazy ideas. I can't see any government signing off on a £500m+ project which is basically, at its core, to redouble a couple of junctions involving probably a few hundred metres of track. By the next time it is considered no doubt even more stuff will have been attached to it and the pricetag will be closer to £1bn, and it won't get done again.

At the risk of going off topic, I have often thought this. If something is unaffordable now, it will most likely be worse in the future.

I think everyone would agree that it would be a gross waste of taxpayers’ money to redouble Ely N Junctions and not be able to run any additional services because of constraints elsewhere.

That would never happen, would it? (runs for cover!)

It’s still a massive comfort downgrade from anything else in their fleet and especially from the 185s. Certainly much worse than a 158

To be honest, I am curious as to where Northern can find a spare unit. Is something else being short formed or taken out of the timetable?

 

[miklcct]

A couple of minutes? The connections don't work particularly well at Haywards Heath in either direction.

If I travel on this route I always change at Gatwick Airport or even East Croydon. The trains are very frequent there.

 

[splashoutradio]

With apologies to the nice folk of the South East (I will get round to compiling these tables at some point ), early drafts of December 24 timetables are available at www.railwaydata.co.uk/timetables/Dec24.

With all early editions, the usual caveats apply - some trains may be missing and there'll likely be changes before the timetable goes live. All tables are regularly updated as and when new data becomes available.

 

[hexagon789]

With apologies to the nice folk of the South East (I will get round to compiling these tables at some point ), early drafts of December 24 timetables are available at www.railwaydata.co.uk/timetables/Dec24.

With all early editions, the usual caveats apply - some trains may be missing and there'll likely be changes before the timetable goes live. All tables are regularly updated as and when new data becomes available.

Thank you, already I think I've spotted an error - the 1841 Glasgow QS to Aberdeen is shown as no longer stopping at Perth, RTT agrees so I assume an error with the data?

 

[splashoutradio]

Thank you, already I think I've spotted an error - the 1841 Glasgow QS to Aberdeen is shown as no longer stopping at Perth, RTT agrees so I assume an error with the data?

Thanks for the spot. Early data often has a scattering of erroneous stopping patterns, with the WTT and the passenger TT disagreeing. Llandovery on the Heart of Wales line has one such discrepancy on the last southbound train on a Sunday. These are normally spotted, tidied up and filtered down to journey planners, RTT, timetable providers, etc. in good time for the the timetable start date.

 

[hexagon789]

Thanks for the spot. Early data often has a scattering of erroneous stopping patterns, with the WTT and the passenger TT disagreeing. Llandovery on the Heart of Wales line has one such discrepancy on the last southbound train on a Sunday. These are normally spotted, tidied up and filtered down to journey planners, RTT, timetable providers, etc. in good time for the the timetable start date.

No problem, I thought it was almost certain to be an early data issue than a rather peculiar change - the train stops for a crew swap anyway!

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Not sure if this has been spotted but new Monday to Thursday's Bognor Regis to London Bridge via Littlehampton & Horsham and return trip.

 

[infobleep]

Not sure if this has been spotted but new Monday to Thursday's Bognor Regis to London Bridge via Littlehampton & Horsham and return trip.

It is the 07:02 service from Bognor Regis, arriving 08:58 and the 18:03 service from London Bridge, arriving at 19:49.

I wonder when the last direct service was?

 

[splashoutradio]

It is the 07:02 service from Bognor Regis, arriving 08:58 and the 18:03 service from London Bridge, arriving at 19:49.

I wonder when the last direct service was?

Can't confirm whether it actually ran (due to Covid), but the last time a direct journey between Bognor Regis and London Bridge appeared in the LTP timetable, was in the October - December 2020 timetable, when there were two return journeys Monday to Friday.

Presumably the forthcoming Monday - Thursday only service, if not a data error, is as a result of more people working a four day week?

 

[Sussex Ben]

Can't confirm whether it actually ran (due to Covid), but the last time a direct journey between Bognor Regis and London Bridge appeared in the LTP timetable, was in the October - December 2020 timetable, when there were two return journeys Monday to Friday.

Presumably the forthcoming Monday - Thursday only service, if not a data error, is as a result of more people working a four day week?

Correct, this is in line with the equivalent London Bridge to Littlehampton service which hasn’t run on Fridays since the start of the current timetable.

 

[infobleep]

Can't confirm whether it actually ran (due to Covid), but the last time a direct journey between Bognor Regis and London Bridge appeared in the LTP timetable, was in the October - December 2020 timetable, when there were two return journeys Monday to Friday.

Presumably the forthcoming Monday - Thursday only service, if not a data error, is as a result of more people working a four day week?

It reminds me of the timetables from the 1940s and 50s when some trains didn't always run every week day or ran at different times on some days.

Prior to COVID I was use to trains running every day Monday to Friday and at the same time, bar any parliamentary services running less than daily.

 

[Harpo]

It reminds me of the timetables from the 1940s and 50s when some trains didn't always run every week day or ran at different times on some days.

All year FO trains used to be quite common and some threw up interesting traction such as a 46 or 33 from Plymouth to London or the Derby - St Pancras 37/4.

Odd that FO has gone to FX or, more correctly, FSX.

 

[Bikeman78]

It is the 07:02 service from Bognor Regis, arriving 08:58 and the 18:03 service from London Bridge, arriving at 19:49.

I wonder when the last direct service was?

When was the last time a WTT service ran from Littlehampton to Arundel or vice versa? Before May 2018? I take it the objective is to provide Littlehampton with a second train to London Bridge, whilst also providing a service along the Arun Valley.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Would be better served having it be a Thameslink via Hove.

 

[Bikeman78]

Since these two trains were effectively the "Parliamentary" service over the chord between Streatham Hill and Tulse Hill, there must be something else new at least once a week to cover that section - is there any sign of such a replacement in the new uploads?

Presumably at an ungodly hour on the weekend like previously?

There isn't one uploaded yet. The time has changed over the years. In the 1990s it was a down train in the morning peak. More recently it was 1550 from Streatham Hill to London Bridge, first with VEPs and then 455s.

 

[xtradj]

17:30 Edinburgh to Aberdeen Scotrail doesn’t run on the new timetable from dec 15th. Seems odd? Always busy service

 

[Tayway]

17:30 Edinburgh to Aberdeen Scotrail doesn’t run on the new timetable from dec 15th. Seems odd? Always busy service

Seems to be in now, e.g. for the 19th

Realtime Trains | 1A91 1730 Edinburgh to Aberdeen | 19/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 1A91 1730 departure from Edinburgh to Aberdeen on 19/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[The exile]

Seems to be in now, e.g. for the 19th

Realtime Trains | 1A91 1730 Edinburgh to Aberdeen | 19/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 1A91 1730 departure from Edinburgh to Aberdeen on 19/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That’s this month - the post was about December onwards.

 

[berneyarms]

It’s probably not loaded yet.

People really need to treat these timetables with caution until the formal timetable pdfs are all published.

There are always omissions and late changes that are added later.

 

[43055]

17:30 Edinburgh to Aberdeen Scotrail doesn’t run on the new timetable from dec 15th. Seems odd? Always busy service

Probably just not loading in yet. The return journey from Aberdeen is in at 2106.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There isn't one uploaded yet. The time has changed over the years. In the 1990s it was a down train in the morning peak. More recently it was 1550 from Streatham Hill to London Bridge, first with VEPs and then 455s.

Thank you - I'd be interested to see what does appear as I still need that chord despite it being not a huge distance from Epsom...

 

[moonarrow458]

One slightly bizzare and negative change i've noticed is on the new line to Leven. From December the 2318 departure which currently runs to Edinburgh (arriving 0029) on weekdays will now only run to Edinburgh on Fridays. On Monday to Thursdays it will run to Kircaldy and tip out there before running ECS to Haymarket depot via Edinburgh.

The resultant effect is that on Monday to Thursdays passengers from the Leven Branch will have to change at Kircaldy onto the 2350 service from Perth which doesnt get into Edinburgh until 0103, a whole 34 minutes later whilst their train from Leven trundles down to Edinburgh empty. Now whilst there might not be a huge amount of travellers at that time it does seem to be a bizzare and very anti-passenger move, so rather disapointing.

 

[The exile]

One slightly bizzare and negative change i've noticed is on the new line to Leven. From December the 2318 departure which currently runs to Edinburgh (arriving 0029) on weekdays will now only run to Edinburgh on Fridays. On Monday to Thursdays it will run to Kircaldy and tip out there before running ECS to Haymarket depot via Edinburgh.

The resultant effect is that on Monday to Thursdays passengers from the Leven Branch will have to change at Kircaldy onto the 2350 service from Perth which doesnt get into Edinburgh until 0103, a whole 34 minutes later whilst their train from Leven trundles down to Edinburgh empty. Now whilst there might not be a huge amount of travellers at that time it does seem to be a bizzare and very anti-passenger move, so rather disapointing.

Really can’t imagine that there is that much demand in that direction at that time of night. Sure it’s later than a lot of comparable places get