December 2024 timetable change

[Peter0124]

An interesting diagram has come to light for TPE.

2*185s off the 1809 arrival from Redcar Central at Manchester Airport split. One unit departs on the 1844 1P87 to Redcar Central whilst the other unit works the 1904 departure to Oxenholme as 1C85.

On arrival at Oxenholme to unit shunts via Tebay back to Oxenholme and forms 1M94 the 2113 departure to Manchester Airport. Thence the unit forms 5W94 to Ardwick.

This appears to offer regular working of Class 185s to Manchester Piccadilly Preston link drivers, as Preston depot no longer sign 185s.

1C85 1904 MIA-OXN 2037
5M94 2042 OXN-OXN 2108 (via Tebay)
1M94 2113 OXN-MIA 2241
5W94 2254 MIA-XRK 2336

Both of those services (1C85 and 1M94) used to terminate/start at Glasgow Central too before covid. 1C85 used to be 1S85.

Actually I think 1S85 existed after covid too, but has since been dropped.

Quite unusual to interwork a Redcar service with a WCML service, and bringing the return of 185s to Cumbria.

 

[CAF397]

Quite unusual to interwork a Redcar service with a WCML service, and bringing the return of 185s to Cumbria.

It is.

There is an 1844 arrival at Manchester Airport from Glasgow that will be a Class 397, but that goes straight to Longsight. It could've been used to run the Oxenholme service, but the use of a Class 185 underlines the use of it specifically for traction retention.

 

[ayubdaud]

EWR Driver Training paths between Oxford and MK are uploaded. Seems to be a sneak peek at the future timetable as they have all the calls in. Only SX at the moment.

 

[Kite159]

..

WMR Snow Hill December services currently showing reductions in the off peak.

Kidderminster to Birmingham cut from 4 to 3 per hour, Kidderminster to Worcester cut from 2 to 1 per hour. Birmingham to Dorridge WMR services cut from 2 to 1 per hour, with the Dorridge to Stratford services gone, so Stratford to Birmingham down from 2 to 1 per hour.

I wonder how they will spin that service reduction for the likes of Olton getting reduced to hourly when before Covid it was every 20 minutes. Likewise with the Stratford upon Avon service getting cut reducing Lapworth back to every 2 hours

 

[Murray J]

Mims Davies MP provides GTR meeting update on East Grinstead, Uckfield and Wivelsfield trains

Mims Davies MP provides GTR meeting update on East Grinstead, Uckfield and Wivelsfield trains. Mims Davies MP said:

www.mimsdavies.org.uk

Some minor changes for Southern have been confirmed by local MP Mims Davies, specifically the return of the 21:36 and 22:36 East Grinstead-Victoria trains (essentially extending half-hourly service from the end of the peaks to the end of service).
a 22:07 London Bridge-Uckfield train will also be added although unlike the East Grinstead trains won't have a return working associated with it it seems.

 

[duffield]

EWR Driver Training paths between Oxford and MK are uploaded. Seems to be a sneak peek at the future timetable as they have all the calls in. Only SX at the moment.

Interesting. I wonder why Bletchley has been given a separate station code for the high level platforms (BLU instead of BLY)? It's not like that's normal, it doesn't happen at places like Nuneaton, Tamworth or Smethwick Galton Bridge (some examples of two level stations), and it's not like the high level platforms have their own entrance/gateline or something.

 

[PGAT]

Interesting. I wonder why Bletchley has been given a separate station code for the high level platforms (BLU instead of BLY)? It's not like that's normal, it doesn't happen at places like Nuneaton, Tamworth or Smethwick Galton Bridge (some examples of two level stations), and it's not like the high level platforms have their own entrance/gateline or something.

And the platforms are numbered 7 and 8 continuing on from Bletchley main.

 

[geoffk]

GWR times are now on RTT. This must have happened in the last day or two. (Edit: just read post 95).

 

[philosopher]

I wonder how they will spin that service reduction for the likes of Olton getting reduced to hourly when before Covid it was every 20 minutes. Likewise with the Stratford upon Avon service getting cut reducing Lapworth back to every 2 hours

My first thought was that WMR have a shortage of rolling stock and / or drivers which means they can’t run 2 trains an hour to Olton.

 

[JGurney]

That being said, overall, I do think it's a shame to lose the service to Saltburn for TPE.

It certainly is, from my POV.
The dep. from Saltburn I use most often is the 09:51, arr York at 11:18
It looks as if this would become the 09:23 Northern from Saltburn, arr. Redcar Central 09:35, then the 09:58 TPE from there arr. York 11:18

So what was a 1h27 journey becomes 1h55, a 32% increase in journey time, plus an extra change, plus presumably a higher fare as TP advances will no longer be available for the whole journey.
It will probably make more sense to stay on the bus through Saltburn to Redcar and get the train from there.

 

[Horizon22]

Nothing substantial for SE metro services it seems, still running their managed decline timetable, will continue to use the Elizabeth line.

North Kent service is increased slightly and believe at the very least it is a better balanced 4tph. Elizabeth line will still be quicker for most journeys regardless into Zone 1-2 anyway, so makes sense regardless

 

[shakermaker_86]

I was hoping SWR would restore 4tph Epsom to Waterloo in the off-peak. No such luck it seems It's so frustrating still only having 2tph in the off-peak from Worcester Park to Waterloo, having been used to 4tph for as long as I can remember, and 1tph to each of Guildford / Dorking. I can't see any improvements at all to the timetable on that line. Maybe next year!?

It's extremely disappointing and frustrating, there'll be some people on this forum saying the current 1tph service levels from Epsom to Dorking/Guildford are sufficient which is complete rubbish. Can only hope that the gradual rollout of the 701s leads to an increase in services by the May 25 timetable (if not before)

 

[Stephen42]

Interesting. I wonder why Bletchley has been given a separate station code for the high level platforms (BLU instead of BLY)? It's not like that's normal, it doesn't happen at places like Nuneaton, Tamworth or Smethwick Galton Bridge (some examples of two level stations), and it's not like the high level platforms have their own entrance/gateline or something.

It's common for a station to have multiple timing point locations (TIPLOCs - up to 7 letters) for different platforms. From querying my database of the Network Rail open data feed, Nuneaton has one, but the others have two (TMWTHHL / Tamworth High Level / TAH) and (TMWTHLL / Tamworth Low Level / TAM), (GALTINT/ Smethwick Galton Bdg H. L. / SGB) and (GALTILL/ Smethwick Galton Bdg L. L / XGQ). No locations in the database share a three letter code so assume has to be unique where one is defined. London Victoria and London Bridge trains are timed at locations without a station code and there's another location with the station code without any trains timed there.

The National Rail feeds and third party sites showing Network Rail schedule feeds use another lookup to show results across all relevant TIPLOCs for a particular station or code. This is outside the data provided by the Network Rail feeds. I believe RealTimeTrains doesn't use National Rail data and it's a manual task to update the mapping on the rare occasion a station gets multiple timing points in the system. The BLU code isn't intended for public use and there will be some technical reason why the new platforms have a new timing point, probably related to the signalling system in some way.

 

[barbette165]

..

I wonder how they will spin that service reduction for the likes of Olton getting reduced to hourly when before Covid it was every 20 minutes. Likewise with the Stratford upon Avon service getting cut reducing Lapworth back to every 2 hours

The missing Worcester to Stratford journeys have reappeared in tonight's upload

 

[Horizon22]

It's common for a station to have multiple timing point locations (TIPLOCs - up to 7 letters) for different platforms. From querying my database of the Network Rail open data feed, Nuneaton has one, but the others have two (TMWTHHL / Tamworth High Level / TAH) and (TMWTHLL / Tamworth Low Level / TAM), (GALTINT/ Smethwick Galton Bdg H. L. / SGB) and (GALTILL/ Smethwick Galton Bdg L. L / XGQ). No locations in the database share a three letter code so assume has to be unique where one is defined. London Victoria and London Bridge trains are timed at locations without a station code and there's another location with the station code without any trains timed there.

Same is true of Paddington, Liverpool Street, Farringdon, Whitechapel and Abbey Wood for the Elizabeth Line. There were also planned to be different CRS codes but for passenger connection and journey planner reasons, these weren't used.

 

[liamf656]

EMR seems to have been uploaded

The long-awaited gaps on the Crewe to Newark service are being filled, although I can't see any other changes

 

[sansyy]

Anyone know what services are changing that call at Chester station and Merseyrail changes?

 

[WAB]

A tad disappointed with TPE's attitudes to providing a service to stations such as Garforth and Northallerton. They really should bin their intercity delusions and focus on being what they're good at: An interregional operator. The decision re the ex-Newcastle services at Northallerton really is a disappointment. Those who know Northallerton station will know that a 'day return to Darlington' is one of their bread and butter flows, after York, with a lot of people seeming to commute to Darlo or Newcastle. It seems to me that TPE's attitude towards such stations is that they get in the way of being an intercity operator, leaving said stations with a worse service. It just shows how we don't have an integrated rail plan, never mind an integrated transport plan (buses in Northallerton magically disappear after about 5pm). Was going to say a plus side is they seem to have sorted the early Northbound finish at Thirsk compared to Mon-Fri and Sun but it appears they're only calling the last Newcastle terminator at Thirsk around Christmas.

Yes, this is very disappointing indeed. As you say, Northallerton is poorly-served by buses despite being the county town of North Yorkshire. The rail services are a core part of what makes Northallerton workable as a place to live in without regularly using a car, and two-hour gaps just isn't particularly acceptable.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Still waiting on Avanti and Scotrail. Wonder if itll also be tonight, or tomorrow instead (or even next week)

Also GA and GTR

 

[YorkRailFan]

LNR/WMR has been uploaded. Liverpool services will additionally call at Mossley Hill and Coseley.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Liverpool Lime Street all day on 16/12/2024

Train information at Liverpool Lime Street all day on 16/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[ajp999]

Unless they are still to be uploaded the first southbound EMR services to London on a Sunday have been dispensed with. This means the earliest arrivals into London are now 30-35 minutes later from both Derby and Nottingham.

 

[JonathanH]

..

I wonder how they will spin that service reduction for the likes of Olton getting reduced to hourly when before Covid it was every 20 minutes. Likewise with the Stratford upon Avon service getting cut reducing Lapworth back to every 2 hours

The less frequent trains since 2020 have generally run with a more carriages.

 

[43055]

Unless they are still to be uploaded the first southbound EMR services to London on a Sunday have been dispensed with. This means the earliest arrivals into London are now 30-35 minutes later from both Derby and Nottingham.

Looks like it is still to be uploaded as the empty stock move for the first one from Derby is showing.

 

[newtownmgr]

WMR Snow Hill December services currently showing reductions in the off peak.

Kidderminster to Birmingham cut from 4 to 3 per hour, Kidderminster to Worcester cut from 2 to 1 per hour. Birmingham to Dorridge WMR services cut from 2 to 1 per hour, with the Dorridge to Stratford services gone, so Stratford to Birmingham down from 2 to 1 per hour.

Nope. All services showing and no cuts in services.

Yes, Off Peak SBJ had 6 tph pre-Covid, it's 4 tph now and will be 3 tph from December!

No changes. Still 4 an hour. Full services showing.

 

[JCO1406]

Anything for GA?

 

[MerlinRail 804]

When will it all go up on the NR website? It’s easier to get the overall picture there.
Also what changes have Chiltern made?

 

[SeanM1997]

Good to see half-hourly Birmingham New Street - Liverpool Lime Street return and very interesting Mossley Hill comes back to the LNWR Network:

1 - Birmingham New Street, Smethwick Galton Bridge, Wolverhampton, Penkridge, Stafford, Crewe, Winsford, Hartford, Acton Bridge, Runcorn, Liverpool South Parkway and Liverpool Lime Street
2 - Birmingham New Street, Coseley, Wolverhampton, Penkridge, Stafford, Crewe, Runcorn, Liverpool South Parkway, Mossley Hill and Liverpool Lime Street

Additionally, a new 0547 Stafford - Crewe via Stone, Stoke-on-Trent, Longport, Kidsgrove and Alsager has been introduced


East Midlands Railway:
0810 Crewe - Nottingham is extended to Newark Castle
1036 Newark Castle - Crewe introduced
1310 Crewe - Newark Castle introduced

Transport for Wales:
0619 Shrewsbury - Crewe introduced
1730 Manchester Piccadilly - Cardiff extended to Swansea
Additional calling points in Nantwich and Whitchurch to have a more consistent hourly service throughout the day

 

[nw1]

Deleted

 

[Wiganlad]

I see that the WMR New Street to Kings Norton has been loaded.

 

[nw1]

Good to see half-hourly Birmingham New Street - Liverpool Lime Street return and very interesting Mossley Hill comes back to the LNWR Network:

1 - Birmingham New Street, Smethwick Galton Bridge, Wolverhampton, Penkridge, Stafford, Crewe, Winsford, Hartford, Acton Bridge, Runcorn, Liverpool South Parkway and Liverpool Lime Street
2 - Birmingham New Street, Coseley, Wolverhampton, Penkridge, Stafford, Runcorn, Liverpool South Parkway, Mossley Hill and Liverpool Lime Street

Good to see 2tph but I see all pretensions to this service being a regional express have been lost, as both make stops at three or more minor stations (what I would class as a minor station has been bolded).