Lewisham2221
Established Member
Running off on a tangent from the First Potteries thread:
Whilst it's very easy to point the finger at First for the decline of bus services in North Staffordshire, it's also worth noting that overall number of buses operated by other operators in the area has also declined massively. If everything is as "obviously profitable" as some people like to make out, why is no other operator leaping in to tap into that? Why are others, such as D&G, waiting for First and the other large groups to throw in the towel, before tentatively stepping in to offer "replacement" services, often at lower frequency, later starts and earlier finishes, barely existent Saturday services and non-existent Sunday services? Surely that in itself should be telling people that buses just aren't as profitable as they like to think.
Arriva also jumped ship in Winsford (Mid/South Cheshire ops - Crewe/Macclesfield/Northwich), Cannock (and Stafford) and Burton-on-Trent, with the latter seeing the operation sold from Arriva to Midland Classic (Centrebus group?) and then sold on again to Rotala. Even "the really good bus company" Trent Barton couldn't make Buxton/Dove Holes work and sold it Centrebus.
As @SLC001 rightly points out above, outside of the major cities (Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol etc), the city centre just isn't the target destination for passengers anymore. It's easy to look at a passing bus, see a dozen or so "bums on seats" and assume that the service is profitable because people are using it. That simply isn't the case, I'm afraid. Similarly, travelling on a bus that is full and standing during your commute doesn't automatically mean the service is well used and profitable for the whole day. Making a few educated guesses and assumptions with regards to operating costs and income, there's only really two ways, IMO, for a commercial bus service to operate profitably and sustainably:
This. This. And more this.I read this thread with sadness having been born in Alsager and first got involved with buses - not First but good old PMT. I am of the view now, living in Northampton, that there are few destinations where lots of people actually want to go. e.g. large factories or employers, shopping centres. In any street like ours nearly everyone goes to work in different directions. When they socialise they go to different places - the town centre is no longer the mecca for many people's night out. My point is, perhaps not very well made, is that these days buses need to run services from every street (ideally house) to everywhere else in (and out of town) to meet this need. In theory this can only be achieved by making two bus journeys - one into town say and one out and folks will not do that. Private hire or private car achieves quicker, faster, convenient, practical and cheaper results.
I do not know the answer, decades of planning blight, random housing developments, emphasis on cars has contributed and is not easily fixed. Taking political control does not resolve the problem, rate payers take the risk, the services often restricted to political maps and not natural destinations. (Is Newcastle U L and Stoke under same political control now?)Politicians will also need to take more drastic and unpopular action if they are committed to buses which they will fear will rebound at the elections. Furthermore, they need to look at the impact these cuts have on the elderly, handicapped and other socially limited groups but since when is that a vote winner?
This may sound a rant and irrelevant to First Potteries but imho it is. First have to operate in this environment and it is not easy. Not that I have any sympathy for First but that is a personal view!
Whilst it's very easy to point the finger at First for the decline of bus services in North Staffordshire, it's also worth noting that overall number of buses operated by other operators in the area has also declined massively. If everything is as "obviously profitable" as some people like to make out, why is no other operator leaping in to tap into that? Why are others, such as D&G, waiting for First and the other large groups to throw in the towel, before tentatively stepping in to offer "replacement" services, often at lower frequency, later starts and earlier finishes, barely existent Saturday services and non-existent Sunday services? Surely that in itself should be telling people that buses just aren't as profitable as they like to think.
Arriva also jumped ship in Winsford (Mid/South Cheshire ops - Crewe/Macclesfield/Northwich), Cannock (and Stafford) and Burton-on-Trent, with the latter seeing the operation sold from Arriva to Midland Classic (Centrebus group?) and then sold on again to Rotala. Even "the really good bus company" Trent Barton couldn't make Buxton/Dove Holes work and sold it Centrebus.
As @SLC001 rightly points out above, outside of the major cities (Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol etc), the city centre just isn't the target destination for passengers anymore. It's easy to look at a passing bus, see a dozen or so "bums on seats" and assume that the service is profitable because people are using it. That simply isn't the case, I'm afraid. Similarly, travelling on a bus that is full and standing during your commute doesn't automatically mean the service is well used and profitable for the whole day. Making a few educated guesses and assumptions with regards to operating costs and income, there's only really two ways, IMO, for a commercial bus service to operate profitably and sustainably:
- The service needs to depart "full and standing" from it's origin on pretty much every journey, dropping off passengers steadily on the journey, with perhaps a few intermediate passengers. On the return journey, the bus would need to pick up passengers throughout the journey, arriving at the terminus with a full bus.
- The service needs to start with 20-30 passengers on board, with a steady flow of boarding and alighting passengers so that total passenger turnover for the journey is somewhere around the 150%-200% mark.