Delay Repay and rangers

[kingqueen]

yes, that old chestnut (I have read previous threads on here)

I did the Ffestiniog Round Robin last week, from Leeds. Tickets: Leeds to Manchester and then the Ffestiniog Round Robin with the Manchester extension, then Shrewsbury to Birmingham and Birmingham to Leeds. The train from Porthmadog to Birmingham was delayed by 1 hour+.

So I've filled in an ATW Delay Repay form: issuing station Leeds, starting station Leeds, ending station Leeds. I made clear in the comments that this journey from Leeds to Leeds was via changes at Manchester, Llandudno Junction, Blaenau Ffestiniog, Porthamdog and Birmingham.

It will be very interesting to see if and how they calculate the refund due. I don't envy them.

 

[greatkingrat]

Maybe they will refund you the cost of a Leeds - Leeds ticket (a 10p platform ticket!)

I think it would have been easier to just say you made a Porthmadog - Leeds journey which was delayed by 1 hour, I'm not sure the outward part of your route is really relevant if that was on time.

 

[AlterEgo]

Common practice is to assume the ranger is made for one outward journey and one return. It wasn't something I agreed with, but it's simpler and more generous all round.

So, for a delay on one leg, the working value is half the cost of the ticket. You may then get 50%-100% etc depending on TOC.

 

[kingqueen]

Maybe they will refund you the cost of a Leeds - Leeds ticket (a 10p platform ticket!)

I think it would have been easier to just say you made a Porthmadog - Leeds journey which was delayed by 1 hour, I'm not sure the outward part of your route is really relevant if that was on time.

Doubtless you're right, but I found it more childishly entertaining to put the whole lot down - after all, the ticket includes a run on the Ffestiniog, and we really didn't stop all day LOL
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Common practice is to assume the ranger is made for one outward journey and one return. It wasn't something I agreed with, but it's simpler and more generous all round.

So, for a delay on one leg, the working value is half the cost of the ticket. You may then get 50%-100% etc depending on TOC.

Hopefully plus the Shrewsbury to Birmingham, and Birmingham to Leeds

 

[gray1404]

I would say that given the ticket combo held you did make a single journey, with valid split tickets as allowed under the NRCoC (I shall assume you allowed at least the minimum connection times). And as you were delayed by over an hour I would expect a full refund of 100% of the price of the ticket.

I would certainly expect 100% of the Leeds to Manchester, Shrewsbury to Birmingham and Birmingham to Leeds tickets (assuming these were all single tickets.) As for the Round Robin element, it would be great if you get 100% of this (I was going to say that I personally would settle for 50%.) Although having looked at the wording of the product on National Rail I see it is "Valid for one journey around the designated circuit in either direction, starting and ending at the same station." I think you could therefore say it is a single journey - for which you finished short at Shrewsbury before using your next split ticket.

If coming from say Holyhead or Pwllheli for example, you could say there is some double back. However, given you started out at Manchester AND finished short then this doesn't apply to you.

Yes, delay repay for 100% of a value of a single ticket I would say.

 

[roversfan2001]

I was delayed by 30 minutes on a Lancashire Day Ranger and got 50% so you should get 100% (of the round robin at least, and presuming you left adequate connection times, the following tickets too).

 

[kingqueen]

Thanks all. I hope you're right! Will be interesting to see what they do.

I left adequate change times, I booked assistance because I'm a wheelchair user. When I phoned Transpennine and told them I wanted to book to Blaenau Ffestiniog, the guy said to me "that's not a station in the UK is it?" I had to spell it phonetically lol. I should imagine they don't book many tickets from Leeds to Blaenau!

 

[bb21]

I don't think you are entitled to anything if you claim for a journey Leeds to Leeds, because it is not a valid journey.

What I suggest, is that you send the claim in via email, and explain why you did such a round trip (day out, etc, whatever it is) and the delays experienced. They can then offer you something as a discretionary measure, and most TOCs are fairly flexible on that.

Claim for Leeds to Leeds with no explanation and expect it to be rejected.

Alternatively claim an actual journey, eg. Porthmadog to Leeds, but keep it sensible if not providing any explanation, so not Manchester to Leeds via Porthmadog.

 

[kingqueen]

yes, I did explain in the accompanying message.

 

[kingqueen]

What they did was:

"Under the terms of our Passenger Charter, you are entitled to compensation worth half of the total cost of return tickets from Porthmadog to Leeds (inclusive of your Disabled Railcard discount) for a delay of this nature. As such, I have enclosed travel vouchers worth £75.00"

Which I think is very reasonable indeed.

 

[Merseysider]

What they did was:

"Under the terms of our Passenger Charter, you are entitled to compensation worth half of the total cost of return tickets from Porthmadog to Leeds (inclusive of your Disabled Railcard discount) for a delay of this nature. As such, I have enclosed travel vouchers worth £75.00"

Which I think is very reasonable indeed.

Nice bit of profit there

A return from Leeds to Porthmadog is only £57.75...

 

[fishquinn]

Score!

I've got a question myself which is kind of on topic but involves a 7 day North East Rover instead. I was delayed by 2 hours by VTEC on one day in my rover but when going to fill out an online delay repay form, the only ticket options it gave from a list were off peak single/return, anytime single/return and weekly, monthly and annual season tickets. Which should I go for?

Cheers!

 

[gray1404]

Score!

I've got a question myself which is kind of on topic but involves a 7 day North East Rover instead. I was delayed by 2 hours by VTEC on one day in my rover but when going to fill out an online delay repay form, the only ticket options it gave from a list were off peak single/return, anytime single/return and weekly, monthly and annual season tickets. Which should I go for?

Cheers!

Send an email to them attaching a copy of the ticket you used in this case.

[email protected]

Or by post to

Virgin Trains East Coast
Customer Relations
Freepost RTUH-TUGH-GCLZ
Cramlington
NE23 1WG

In which case wait until you have finished using the ticket before you send it off.

 

[fishquinn]

Brilliant, thanks!

 

[kingqueen]

Nice bit of profit there

A return from Leeds to Porthmadog is only £57.75...

there were two of us - me in my wheelchair, and my carer, both covered by the railcard.

 

[gray1404]

So overall your received a 50% refund of the total amount of fares paid out for the two of you?

 

[kingqueen]

I don't think so.
That day I bought a number of tickets to cover my route Leeds > Llandudno Junction > Blaenau Ffestiniog and the Ffestiniog Railway to Porthmadog, then Porthmadog > Birmigham and Birmingham > Leeds. This was covered by Ffestiniog Round Robins and necessary single tickets for those bits not covered by the Round Robins.
They gave me 50% of the cost of two return tickets from Porthmadog to Leeds.
I don't know what proportion of the actual ticket cost that was, but it certainly seems reasonable to me, as the delay was in Machynlleth and Welshpool and also made us miss our connection from Birmingham to Leeds.

 

[gray1404]

Could you possibly provide a list of exact tickets held and the price paid for each? Do you feel like you have been cheated about of any compensation by ATW or do you feel that you have received what you expected?

 

[yorkie]

It would be interesting to know, but there is no guarantee any future claims considered by the company, or any other company, would follow the same formula.

If anything, compensation for Rovers and Day Rangers is often arguably more generous than they are perhaps required to provide.

It really is unwise to claim on the basis of a Leeds-Leeds journey, but it appears to have caused no harm here. It's almost like you're asking not to be compensated

 

[kingqueen]

I'm trying to reconstruct the tickets. But before I do so, to say that I wasn't sure how much money I would get in refund so wasn't particularly expecting anything, but I'm happy with what I got refunded and don't in any way feel diddled.

The Ffestiniog Round Robins with the Manchester extension and disabled railcard were 2x£27.05=£54.10

The Leeds to Manchester standard anytime singles with disabled railcard were 2x£13.35=£26.70

The Birmingham to Leeds were two standard off-peak singles with disabled railcard 2x£38.95=£77.90.

That totals £158.70.

I've lost the Shrewsbury to Birmingham tickets. But checking for tickets for now, off-peak singles with disabled railcard = 2x£9.45=£18.90. Assuming that's correct, that's £177.60.

Two off-peak open returns from Porthmadog to Leeds with the disabled railcard for the same service totals £115.50.

In these circumstances after the above calculations I remain happy with my £75 refund.

As for putting a journey from Leeds to Leeds: I made very clear in the spare spaces on the form, and in the accompanying email, exactly what journey I had done - and made the point that it wasn't a case of a standard single or return journey so didn't fit the form. Happily they read the form and email instead of just seeing Leeds to Leeds and binning it.

Cheers

Doug

 

[gray1404]

If you take the view that your Leeds to Leeds journey via Wales was a round trip. And if we call that round trip a return. Then under ATW Passengers Charter you are entitled to 50% of the cost of a return ticket. If we say that the total you paid was £177.60 then I would have been expecting something like £88.80 (50%)

However, just looking at the issue of the tickets covering Porthmadog to Leeds. The cost of your Ffestiniog Round Robins with the Manchester extension, Shrewsbury to Birmingham tickets and Birmingham to Leeds these all total £150.90 so 50% of this is £75.45

I can therefore see why you are happy with the £75 you have received.

 

[kingqueen]

Thanks. I agree.
I was just basing my happiness on a gut feeling, really. I enjoyed the trip irrespective of the delay. The large amounts of beer, champagne and whisky may have assisted in that matter.
They didn't offer me a refund on those, though. Lol.

 

[gray1404]

Glad you had a good time! If for any reason you are unable to use the vouchers then it would be worth asking ATW if they can provide a cheque if you send them back in to Customer Services.

 

[Starmill]

I once had compensation for a Leeds to Newcastle delay using a North East Rover calculated using the 1/7 of the 7DS price. Now that was generous!