Delay Repay claims rejected

[Runningaround]

Do some TOC's deliberately wait until the trains you claimed for are no longer available on Real Time Trains to make it harder for you to source proof of the delay?
I was delayed over 15 minutes on arrival a few times last month and proof was on RTT, I guess the TOC's using the time it departed the final destination to reject my claim as the service gets 5 minutes or more wait and will be then within the threshold rather than the actual arrival time. I cannot now get the page showing the evidence to appeal now due to the TOC being so slow with their response.
Perhaps I should claim delay repay for their slow response which is over a month.

 

[sot]

Do some TOC's deliberately wait until the trains you claimed for are no longer available on Real Time Trains to make it harder for you to source proof of the delay?
I was delayed over 15 minutes on arrival a few times last month and proof was on RTT, I guess the TOC's using the time it departed the final destination to reject my claim as the service gets 5 minutes or more wait and will be then within the threshold rather than the actual arrival time. I cannot now get the page showing the evidence to appeal now due to the TOC being so slow with their response.
Perhaps I should claim delay repay for their slow response which is over a month.

If you save the link they usually work for quite a time after their 7 day threshold.

There are also numerous other sites that will give you the data if needed.

Sneaky if they have counted dwell time and departure rather than arrival time.

 

[Watershed]

Do some TOC's deliberately wait until the trains you claimed for are no longer available on Real Time Trains to make it harder for you to source proof of the delay?
I was delayed over 15 minutes on arrival a few times last month and proof was on RTT, I guess the TOC's using the time it departed the final destination to reject my claim as the service gets 5 minutes or more wait and will be then within the threshold rather than the actual arrival time. I cannot now get the page showing the evidence to appeal now due to the TOC being so slow with their response.
Perhaps I should claim delay repay for their slow response which is over a month.

There are plenty of other sites which don't have a 7 day restriction; the majority of passengers don't use RTT anyway. So I think it's fair to say that this isn't some sort of conspiracy theory!

The time the train departs/arrives from other stations is irrelevant - but I would note that there isn't the required data to track exact arrival/departure times from every station. For instance, on the Cambrian Coast line, accurate times will only be recorded for stations which have an ETCS block marker (see here for a map). Times will be estimated for all other stations and so it's possible that the delay was (wrongly) estimated at just under the threshold for your station.

 

[Jamiescott1]

With the service being automated, I've always wondered why it's not instant.

I put in a request for this past Saturdays gwr strike as a season ticket holder. This was rejected within 24 hours. First time I've been rejected on a strike day.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

With the service being automated, I've always wondered why it's not instant.

I put in a request for this past Saturdays gwr strike as a season ticket holder. This was rejected within 24 hours. First time I've been rejected on a strike day.

Is it the first strike day that you've applied for on a weekend? Obviously there's nothing wrong with using your season ticket on a Saturday, but it's an unusual thing to do (or at least, not as usual as using it Monday to Friday).

For the avoidance of doubt, I am emphatically not suggesting that @Jamiescott1 is trying to diddle the railway. Rather, I am flagging up a reason why the railway might have a difficulty with a perfectly legitimate claim - although if they do have such a difficulty, that suggests a lack of thinking it through on the railway's part.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Is it the first strike day that you've applied for on a weekend? Obviously there's nothing wrong with using your season ticket on a Saturday, but it's an unusual thing to do (or at least, not as usual as using it Monday to Friday).

For the avoidance of doubt, I am emphatically not suggesting that @Jamiescott1 is trying to diddle the railway. Rather, I am flagging up a reason why the railway might have a difficulty with a perfectly legitimate claim - although if they do have such a difficulty, that suggests a lack of thinking it through on the railway's part.

Nope I've applied and been successful first time for compensation on every strike Saturday

 

[bubieyehyeh]

I generally screenshot realtimetrains using firefox when I put in a delay repay claim, in case it gets rejected incorrectly later. Sometime mentioning the headcode on appeals seems to help them.

 

[Runningaround]

If you save the link they usually work for quite a time after their 7 day threshold.

There are also numerous other sites that will give you the data if needed.

Sneaky if they have counted dwell time and departure rather than arrival time.

There should be an independent site that's easily available that keeps the arrival times viewable for at least six months so that delay repay claim can be challenged. The TOC's have the data readily available and balance decisions towards their favour. I need to search the depths of the internet and spend even more time chasing up rejected claims.
I've a feeling they do use the departure times rather than arrival. But which departure time suits them the Aberystwyth portion or the Coast? as the latter is about 5 - 10 minutes later and will reduce the delay or eliminate it entirely (currently there aren't any Coast trains so will they use the RRB's departure time?)

 

[Runningaround]

There are plenty of other sites which don't have a 7 day restriction; the majority of passengers don't use RTT anyway. So I think it's fair to say that this isn't some sort of conspiracy theory!

The time the train departs/arrives from other stations is irrelevant - but I would note that there isn't the required data to track exact arrival/departure times from every station. For instance, on the Cambrian Coast line, accurate times will only be recorded for stations which have an ETCS block marker (see here for a map). Times will be estimated for all other stations and so it's possible that the delay was (wrongly) estimated at just under the threshold for your station.

Really then why did RTT give a delay of over 15 mins while their sources didn't? I'd have not put in a claim otherwise and I don't think it's part of the claimant's responsibility to waste more time taking photos of screens at stations, it's bad enough that ticket barriers swallow your CCT tickets when you are already late and don't have time to retrieve them so they can't be used if you want to make a claim. The time the train opens its doors should be relevant as that's the time I finished my journey, if the drivers decide to disconnect the units first and then open the doors that should be factored in to as you are still onboard.
And the delays repayments are biased towards the toc, if you have both out and return journeys delayed at a combined delay of over 15 minutes but neither of them over you get nothing, if your return is delayed you only get half of the ticket's portions cost yet get a higher % if you'd bought s single that's only 10p cheaper than a return.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Not necessarily rejected but gwr say you can get compensation equal to a 120 minute delay on strike days as a season ticket holder.
19/11 - delay repay rejected
21/11 - only paid out for 1hr- 119mins (half the amount of money expected)

 

[Capvermell]

Not necessarily rejected but gwr say you can get compensation equal to a 120 minute delay on strike days as a season ticket holder.
19/11 - delay repay rejected
21/11 - only paid out for 1hr- 119mins (half the amount of money expected)

Make sure to appeal the rejection on 19/11 and only paying out for a 1 rather than 2 hour delay on 21/11 to The Rail Ombudsman if the rail company itself still rejects your appeal against their underpayment of your previous claims.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Make sure to appeal the rejection on 19/11 and only paying out for a 1 rather than 2 hour delay on 21/11 to The Rail Ombudsman if the rail company itself still rejects your appeal against their underpayment of your previous claims.

Thanks.
Appeal sucessful for 21st. Still waiting on the 19th
Its strange as I've recieved the full amount on all other strike days I was unable to travel including 26/11. For some reason these 2 days were processed incorrectly

 

[Kite159]

EMR - you must spoil your tickets by cutting them in two
Also:
EMR - you have spoiled your tickets in the wrong way so we can't read the cost.



Wouldn't be an issue if they didn't have the idiotic 'you must spoil your day tickets' rule

 

[_toommm_]

EMR - you must spoil your tickets by cutting them in two
Also:
EMR - you have spoiled your tickets in the wrong way so we can't read the cost.



Wouldn't be an issue if they didn't have the idiotic 'you must spoil your day tickets' rule

They’ve asked me recently to spoil a multi-day rover that was halfway through its usage, even though it quite clearly states (and it’s common sense that) tickets still in use don’t need to be spoilt.

 

[adamello]

There should be an independent site that's easily available that keeps the arrival times viewable for at least six months so that delay repay claim can be challenged. The TOC's have the data readily available and balance decisions towards their favour. I need to search the depths of the internet and spend even more time chasing up rejected claims.
I've a feeling they do use the departure times rather than arrival. But which departure time suits them the Aberystwyth portion or the Coast? as the latter is about 5 - 10 minutes later and will reduce the delay or eliminate it entirely (currently there aren't any Coast trains so will they use the RRB's departure time?)

Try https://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/

 

[sheff1]

EMR - you must spoil your tickets by cutting them in two
Also:
EMR - you have spoiled your tickets in the wrong way so we can't read the cost.



Wouldn't be an issue if they didn't have the idiotic 'you must spoil your day tickets' rule

I have made probably 3 or 4 claims with EMR this year and have not been asked to cut my tickets in two.

 

[Kite159]

I've noticed that the LNR delay repay portal if it can't gather the ticket details from the ticket number, it will ask for the details to be filled in before allowing you to submit.

Whereas before it would allow you to submit, getting an email a short time later asking for more details as the system can't find that particular ticket

 

[crablab]

I made a delay repay claim to GTR for a ticket including break of journey (I've posted about my routing on here, if you want to find it).

My claim was rejected twice on the basis that the ticket was invalid (spoiler: it was valid), and the second time after they advised me to resubmit for an appeal. It was only 'settled' after I told the Twitter team I'd be happy to accept RTVs rather than submit the claim again for another review (their system requires you to submit appeals as new claims for some reason).

Really annoying. Twitter team were great though, but I find it really disappointing that break of journey is apparently so difficult to understand.

 

[kristiang85]

I had one with SWR recently where my usual train came in short formed, and was running late, so I ran down the platform to find myself at the back of the queue to get on, and after a few minutes the guard was in a hurry (understandably) to dispatch the train so advised those of us at the back to get the next train if we could. So indeed I went to get the next train, 20 minutes later, and was thus 27 minutes later than planned. So I submitted the claim. I fully expected it to be rejected automatically as the original train was only 14 minutes late, but I appealed twice, the third time sending screenshots of my Google timeline to show how much time I'd wasted at the station.

They replied to me today saying "I’m sorry to hear that your journey on the 17th of November didn’t go as expected as you couldn’t board the train due to it being crowded and short formed. Unfortunately, Delay Repay doesn’t compensate for this and therefore your appeal and claim have been rejected." - is it actually true that delay repay does not pay out in these cases?

However, they did sent me a £5 rail travel voucher so alls well that ends well (it was only £2.75 I was entitled to anyway), but it all does seem rather odd.

 

[3rd rail land]

I had one with SWR recently where my usual train came in short formed, and was running late, so I ran down the platform to find myself at the back of the queue to get on, and after a few minutes the guard was in a hurry (understandably) to dispatch the train so advised those of us at the back to get the next train if we could. So indeed I went to get the next train, 20 minutes later, and was thus 27 minutes later than planned. So I submitted the claim. I fully expected it to be rejected automatically as the original train was only 14 minutes late, but I appealed twice, the third time sending screenshots of my Google timeline to show how much time I'd wasted at the station.

They replied to me today saying "I’m sorry to hear that your journey on the 17th of November didn’t go as expected as you couldn’t board the train due to it being crowded and short formed. Unfortunately, Delay Repay doesn’t compensate for this and therefore your appeal and claim have been rejected." - is it actually true that delay repay does not pay out in these cases?

However, they did sent me a £5 rail travel voucher so alls well that ends well (it was only £2.75 I was entitled to anyway), but it all does seem rather odd.

I think SWR know that delay repay does cover your situation so effectively bribed you with a £5 voucher to keep you quiet. The short form caused a delay in your journey, it is not called delay repay for nothing!

 

[maniacmartin]

My OH was due to catch a train recently that was advised as terminating short of the planned final destination. Passengers were advised to wait for the next train instead. I see from RTT that the first train ended up not terminating short after all. What's the chances of GTR paying up?

 

[kristiang85]

I think SWR know that delay repay does cover your situation so effectively bribed you with a £5 voucher to keep you quiet. The short form caused a delay in your journey, it is not called delay repay for nothing!

That's what I thought. But its strange they could have just paid me the £2.75 I claimed for and wouldn't need to pay me £5 to keep me quiet

 

[Gonzoiku]

There is a school of thought that the voucher isn't cash, and so it costs them nothing.

GZ

 

[3rd rail land]

There is a school of thought that the voucher isn't cash, and so it costs them nothing.

GZ

True but it is £5 of revenue they won't earn. Sure they didn't have to pay out £2.75 but they have still effectively lost out on £2.25.

 

[Gonzoiku]

Correct, if the voucher is used for a £5 fare. But assume it will be used for a £10 fare. That's £5 incremental revenue which they might not have got!

GZ

 

[kristiang85]

Correct, if the voucher is used for a £5 fare. But assume it will be used for a £10 fare. That's £5 incremental revenue which they might not have got!

GZ

But they should know from my very extensive delay repay account history, and by the fact I have a gold card, that I'm a regular commuter so obviously they weren't in danger of losing my custom over a tiny DR amount.

 

[317 forever]

I have had Northern Rail decline my Delay Repay claim for a 3 hour delay, even on appeal.

I travelled from Edinburgh Waverley to Manchester Piccadilly on Sunday September 18th, via Avanti to Preston and Northern from there.

The Northern train was slow, stopped for a while near Blackrod, then due to a blockage (I think signal failure) we were taken back to Preston. It then took nearly an hour for another train to Manchester to come. We reached Preston around 2 hours after we had originally left Preston.

By then there were no TransPennine trains running to Manchester, and the next one was Northern around an hour later. My ticket was a combined Avanti & Northern Saver single.

My claim form originally went to Arbroath and after a few weeks came back undelivered. I phoned Northern and a civilised agent admitted they are based at Sheffield. I therefore reposted my claim but this time added Sheffield to the Northern Rail Freepost Delay Repay address.

My claim came back declined. They found a routing via Warrington Bank Quay for which the trains were on time. This seemed unfair for several reasons. Among other things, we were never advised to stay on to Warrington Bank Quay for a suitable connection to Manchester. Furthermore, my ticket would not even have been valid via Warrington Bank Quay as the onward train to Manchester Piccadilly would have been a 3rd operator, Transport for Wales.

Last week, even my appeal came back declined. This time they said they needed more information. I had included my claim number in my letter. So, surely they had my details and ticket from my initial Delay Repay application?

This insulting experience, together with other less severe delays and the lack of assurance of trains running on the days I hope to travel, has contributed to my enjoyment of rail travel now being at an all-time low.

 

[Hadders]

What I normally do with complex delay repay claims is write out the original itinerary for the entire journey and alongside write what actually happened, clearly demonstrating where the delay occurred.

I suspect what has happened is more c*ck up rather than conspiracy.

 

[317 forever]

Re. Northern: whenever a claim is decided, their system emails you with some waffle about "industry systems holding historic train running information". "System" must mean a computer system - not, say, a filing cabinet somewhere!

So if I submit a claim with an e-ticket that a computer can read, for a journey from the ticket origin to the ticket destination on the appropriate date by a permitted route, and these "industry systems" report that it was, in fact, actually delayed - why can't the computer automatically accept my claim almost instantly?

This was the kind of response I had for Northern declining my claim I shared here earlier this evening. They found a routing, neither advised nor even valid on my Avanti/Northern ticket, to make out it was my own fault I was 3 hours late reaching Manchester (rather than the railway's fault, of which Northern was the TOC in question).

I had a claim rejected by Northern because, on the form I had to fill in, I accidentally chose a different train than the northern one, (I chose the 17:11 instead of 17:21). Both trains from Leeds to Doncaster on 20th Feb. They came back and rejected it on the basis that the train I selected was a CrossCountry train, which it was, and told me to get in contact with CC.

I have since replied explaining that it was a mistake on my behalf, that it was in fact the 17:21 train I got on and advised them to check the ticket I had uploaded which clearly states “Northern Only” on it, so I wouldn’t have been able to get on the CrossCountry train anyway. Regardless, this was the day where we bad storms and flooding in the UK, and every train from Leeds to Doncaster around that time had been cancelled, so i had to wait 2 hours and then get on the LNER service back. The last reply I had from them was over a week ago, and I also put a claim in for a train that was cancelled in the morning over a week ago and that has had no response, what should I do?

A bit like Northern declining my Delay Repay claim for not using what would have been a prompt Transport for Wales train when my ticket specified being valid of Avanti & Northern only.

 

[fusionblue]

I had a weekly season ticket with Southeastern this week (bought in february) that was stil the better value for me. All services down the hayes line was cancelled on both strike days this week, but they rejected my earlier claim because "Weekly Season ticket holders can claim Delay Repay if a ‘Do Not Travel’ warning was in place, or their train was delayed or cancelled on the day if your service was running – we publish this information at least two weeks ahead of any strike action on our website.

This should have taken 30 seconds to verify, but seems deliberately written to exclude those whose services are not scheduled to run, not explicitly cancelled on the day.