Delay Repay claims rejected

[hkstudent]

I had a legitimate claim with Thameslink rejected with the stated reason.



However whilst the delay to the Thameslink train may have been less than 15 minutes it caused me to miss a connection and hence a 31 minute delay (the next train was scheduled to depart in 30 minutes but arrive 31 minutes later, for some reason) so the total delay is over 30 minutes.

Thameslink require you to specify the date and time of departure so I supplied that along with the "via" point but still rejected.

I have resubmitted but I'm fully expecting them to reject it again and then I'll have to try and telephone or just write it off (which I'm sure is what they are want me to do).

For this kind of case, you have to email the customer service to get a human response. The re-submit portal seems not capable of handling difficult or more complex cases.

 

[Haywain]

I've had a few disputes with TPE over delay repay, I started to take pictures of departure boards to prove I was at the places and to back up my claim. It proved useful in this case which took the longest to sort:

Travelling from Chorley home to Seamer usually I would use the direct service to Man Vic. and change to TPE there. On the day in question the Victoria train was cancelled, but I was at the station in time to catch the earlier service via Piccadilly. On arrival at Salford Crescent a quick scan of the departure board showed I was going to miss my Scarborough train if I waited for the next service to Victoria, so I remained on the train to Deansgate, bought a tram ticket, and arrived on the platform at Victoria about 5 mins before the Scarborough train was due to leave. Took picture of departure board at departure time as was my habit by this time, previously talking to another regular traveller he had used this as evidence during disputes. It was already showing 5 or so late. Journey back across the pennines was the usual slow 'following stopping services', arriving in Seamer about 40 late, cue delay repay. 1st claim was rejected even although I detailed route and produced (time stamped) tram ticket as well. It went to appeal and took ages to sort, but I didnt let it drop. Initially they told me I should claim off Northern, but I had arrived in time for my TPE train. Then they told me route wasnt possible, well it was I had tickets and evidence to prove it. Eventaully it got to a snail mail letter writing pitched battle, this got results and an apology, in a previous communication they even accused me of fraud.

Surely if you produce evidence, pictures, timed other public transport tickets etc. they must realise its a genuine claim.

At this time I was travelling for the day to the NW once or twice a week and was racking up delay repay on probably half the journeys, so I dont know if this flagged me.

It seems to me that your claim was made complicated by including a lot of information that was irrelevant to TPE as you were claiming from them.

 

[DavyCrocket]

For this kind of case, you have to email the customer service to get a human response. The re-submit portal seems not capable of handling difficult or more complex cases.

And to be fair, they are quite decent.
I have done this a few times. Such as when they hide the cancelled trains!!! And they manually process them

 

[miklcct]

I had a legitimate claim with Thameslink rejected with the stated reason.



However whilst the delay to the Thameslink train may have been less than 15 minutes it caused me to miss a connection and hence a 31 minute delay (the next train was scheduled to depart in 30 minutes but arrive 31 minutes later, for some reason) so the total delay is over 30 minutes.

Thameslink require you to specify the date and time of departure so I supplied that along with the "via" point but still rejected.

I have resubmitted but I'm fully expecting them to reject it again and then I'll have to try and telephone or just write it off (which I'm sure is what they are want me to do).

My successful claim was due to similar reason and it was approved within a day - Southern train delayed for 3 minutes caused me to miss a connection, and the next train was scheduled to depart in 3 minutes later but arrived 15 minutes later because it was a stopping train rather than a non-stop train which I missed.

I believe Southern and Thameslink are the same company GTR, right? Have you inputted the whole journey into the system (including your missed connection after the delayed Thameslink train), not just the delayed train?

 

[robbeech]

I've had a few disputes with TPE over delay repay, I started to take pictures of departure boards to prove I was at the places and to back up my claim. It proved useful in this case which took the longest to sort:

Travelling from Chorley home to Seamer usually I would use the direct service to Man Vic. and change to TPE there. On the day in question the Victoria train was cancelled, but I was at the station in time to catch the earlier service via Piccadilly. On arrival at Salford Crescent a quick scan of the departure board showed I was going to miss my Scarborough train if I waited for the next service to Victoria, so I remained on the train to Deansgate, bought a tram ticket, and arrived on the platform at Victoria about 5 mins before the Scarborough train was due to leave. Took picture of departure board at departure time as was my habit by this time, previously talking to another regular traveller he had used this as evidence during disputes. It was already showing 5 or so late. Journey back across the pennines was the usual slow 'following stopping services', arriving in Seamer about 40 late, cue delay repay. 1st claim was rejected even although I detailed route and produced (time stamped) tram ticket as well. It went to appeal and took ages to sort, but I didnt let it drop. Initially they told me I should claim off Northern, but I had arrived in time for my TPE train. Then they told me route wasnt possible, well it was I had tickets and evidence to prove it. Eventaully it got to a snail mail letter writing pitched battle, this got results and an apology, in a previous communication they even accused me of fraud.

Surely if you produce evidence, pictures, timed other public transport tickets etc. they must realise its a genuine claim.

At this time I was travelling for the day to the NW once or twice a week and was racking up delay repay on probably half the journeys, so I dont know if this flagged me.

It often feels like there are staff dedicated to rejecting claims at any cost, and this sort of thing must be taught. There are worrying but unsurprising numbers of examples of claims where it is initially rejected for a nonsense reason, on appeal, it is rejected again, but for a completely different nonsense reason, and often a third time for a completely different nonsense reason, as if they're determined to reject the claim and are pulling reasons out of a hat to get the passenger to sod off.

The main problem with how claims are rejected is there is no easy way to click a button to ask for a manual review. Lots of TOCs require you to start a brand new claim and key in all the details again which is very cumbersome

There shouldn't be much need for one though. If the systems were set up to Accept or pass on to manual review then we would see things improve. The issue is the systems are setup to accept or reject, and the criteria for reject includes missed connections, can't deal with them so just spits it out as a rejection. Timetable change, can't handle that, rejection. Ticket used on another operator where ticket acceptance allows it, not happy with that, too complicated to program, rejection.

The entire automated process creams off the absolutely simple claims (which IS most of them) and the rest get spat out into the bin rather than being passed to a human. The humans involved aren't always trained well enough and they just assume that the passenger is trying it on, so they follow what the computer says, and reject again because they don't know the rules. Each time a ticket is rejected it stands a higher chance of not being appealed because the passenger doesn't have time.

And to be fair, they are quite decent.
I have done this a few times. Such as when they hide the cancelled trains!!! And they manually process them

This is rife at the moment. With timetables changing more often than the wind, claims are up in the air. I arranged tickets for a colleague in early May with XC. The train was (something like) a 1003 when the tickets were booked, but by the time the day of travel came it was 0957. Not a problem they were aware of it (i told them) and caught the train. The train was about 45 minutes late and the claim was rejected simply because "we don't have a 1003". The human said the same thing, the human with the stripes said it wasn't delayed and the human with the crown and the stripes said, "ah yes i see what has happened here" and paid out immediately. So, resolved but only with 3 or 4 e-mails and some advanced timetable knowledge.

Again, the system is accept or reject.

The (flawed) argument that is often provided, and has been provided in this thread is that "it's not many people, millions have successful claims, it can't be many people so this is acceptable". The obvious response to this is, if it isn't many people then there is no risk of loss to the operator if they adjust the threshold and have the system refer to manual review.

 

[jrh2254]

Scotrail do too.

Does anyone know if these companies have set their ticket gates to always return tickets, or do they retain them at the end of the journey?

I recall LNER used to set the gates at KGX to return tickets but a few years ago that changed, which caught people out!

I opt for e-tickets these days to avoid the many issues with paper tickets (see separate thread!) but sometimes paper tickets are the only option. I am in the habit of photographing my tickets before the end of the journey, in case of delays (or expense claims) however it seems absurd for companies to retain the tickets in the machines and then tell passengers they are acting wrongly!

I too opt for e-tickets for this reason. In the days of paper tickets I had my ticket eaten by the gate several times and so I used to get the station staff to open up the machine and retrieve my ticket - they seemed to consider it a chore! I needed my ticket back on several occasions for delay repay and also to buy a 'plus-bus' ticket at my destination station. I eventually got fed up with the attitude of the staff and the delay in retrieving my ticket so I started to ask the staff to let me through by just looking at my ticket. They still had attitude , but at least I did not have to wait for them to fish out the ticket from the machine. I did notice they ripped the ticket, but never full understood why! - perhaps it was to stop it being reused? , but I would hardly have had time to use my return portion ticket and then reuse my outward portion again and in any event it had been scanned on the train and in the outward gate!

 

[Furrball]

Had a claim with Avanti rejected due to " ticket not being valid for journey claimed" !

Have appealed so awaiting response

(Euston to Hyndland plus Seatfrog upgrade)

 

[Class800]

Only had one claim in my view wrongly rejected over the years, although have been several needing resubmission for no clear reason. The wrongly rejected one was accepted at a lower delay threshold, but they claimed that it was under the higher threshold by 1 minute, which was clearly incorrect going by the clock on the platform at the moment I was able to step off the train. One with Southeastern needed 5 or 6 resubmissions and a threat to escalate - it was a very simple claim about a long distance journey being delayed by an hour due to a missed connection caused by a Southeastern metro cancellation - but they got waylaid with all sorts of non-issues, twice claiming the delay was due to engineering work - when it wasn't, though there was engineering work happening, which was factored into the original timetable

 

[NARobertson]

Last year a significant claim I put into the GWR was eventually paid. But it took a long time and they did initially conflate my claim with a completely unrelated claim by someone else. Earlier claims for small amounts to GWR were all paid except for one for which the delay was too short.

With regard to the original post about spoiling tickets, if a TOC expects people to do this, then it should be clearly stated on their Delay-Repay forms. I find it ironic that companies that sometimes have an obsession with dishonest passengers are not very honest themselves. Of course, they are not alone in this with insurance companies being particularly bad offenders.

Neil Robertson

 

[yorkie]

...With regard to the original post about spoiling tickets, if a TOC expects people to do this, then it should be clearly stated on their Delay-Repay forms.....

And their ticket gates should not be retaining tickets! I'd also say it should be announced on trains. And they shouldn't be suggesting Day tickets could be re-used the next day either!

In other news, I'm aware of someone who had a DR claim rejected by GTR due to the fare being deemed "invalid for the journey" despite using Contactless PAYG. Has anyone else had that?

 

[MikeWh]

In other news, I'm aware of someone who had a DR claim rejected by GTR due to the fare being deemed "invalid for the journey" despite using Contactless PAYG. Has anyone else had that?

No, but I'd like to know more details. GTR's understanding of Oyster/contactless seems to be getting worse, not better.

 

[robbeech]

although have been several needing resubmission for no clear reason.

Then these are wrongly rejected. The topic focuses on incorrect rejections which you list several, it doesn't necessarily mean ones that have NEVER been paid, just initially rejected for a plethora of reasons (preferably not valid ones such as "you did not submit your ticket". Unless, of course you DID submit a ticket. I had a trio of rejections (same claim once), with a trio of reasons for rejection.

1 : The train only ran 8 minutes late (there was a missed connection on a through ticket that made me half an hour late) On appeal i got .....
2 : You did not submit your ticket, please submit your ticket for us to clarify. (promptly appealed suggesting the ticket is there for them to see and they've already acknowledged what train i was on, else how would they initially reject on the original grounds. This led straight to ........
3 : You did not travel on this service, for a refund please speak to your point of purchase.
4 : A threat of escalation saw RTVs posted within a couple of days. Which leads me to ask the question.......

Why does a threat of escalation often do the trick in obtaining the compensation you are entitled to? If they are adamant they are right then surely a threat of escalation shouldn't be a concern to them. I'm not suggesting the operators are trying it on, although you can understand why people come to that conclusion, and there's stacks of evidence that leans that way, but you have to wonder don't you.

 

[Class800]

Thanks for clarification. Only the one I initially mentioned was never paid in full (the one where they said it was 59 minutes late and paid for 'at least 30' when the station clock said it was 60 late when I got off - maybe they went by the track circuit - I have heard they sometimes use one chain short too!). But many others were initially wrongly rejected and overturned. The Southeastern one I mentioned. But several on SWR. Typically because of data errors and misattributing what train I was on/how much delay was caused. A couple needed emailing a detailed response - one was never going to make sense on the form. It was a delay caused by a no-show by a replacement bus that caused knock-on delay of an hour. Bizarrely one SWR found hard to handle correctly was when there was an on time bus Cranbrook to Axminster, but the Axminster to London was delayed by an inbound delay, and this in turn had a knock on effect onto a Southeastern Metro connection.

 

[syorksdeano]

Scotrail do too.

Does anyone know if these companies have set their ticket gates to always return tickets, or do they retain them at the end of the journey?

I'm fairly certain Glasgow Central does, especially platform 16 to 17 gates

 

[maniacmartin]

I stupidly clicked the wrong time on a claim to Thameslink yesterday and immediately phoned them to try to amend the claim. I was told that it is not possible, and to just resubmit it once I get the rejection email.

Today the rejection email came and I resubmitted it with the amended time. I had to submit it as a whole new claim, as the standard resubmision button doesn't let you change the journey details. Now that one has been rejected because it is a duplicate claim of the one they rejected, despite being for a different departure time! So I have resubmitted it again. Things like this would be much easier if you could speak to a human who could look at the claim, rather than lots of back and forth via web forms that have no free-form text input to add comments.

 

[py_megapixel]

Is there actually any requirement to use the online forms, or are TOCs required to process claims sent to their address? If I was delayed, and wrote a letter to the TOC in question enclosing my tickets, providing the relevant details, and requesting compensation in accordance with their delay repay policy, would they have to comply?

---

I notice Chiltern (who, being I believe the oldest franchised operator in the country, don't actually offer delay repay, but do offer compensation under their own passenger charter) place this warning on their website:
If you are travelling using a paper single or return ticket, and intend to make a claim for delay compensation, please DO NOT put your ticket through the ticket barrier at the end of the journey. You will need to keep your ticket to support your claim.

I imagine, though, that most passengers reading that page have already finished their journey (and possibly therefore put their ticket through the barrier) so it's not very helpful! In my opinion barriers which 'eat' tickets should be required to carry a conspicuous warning of this fact near the ticket slot.

 

[arb]

Is there actually any requirement to use the online forms, or are TOCs required to process claims sent to their address? If I was delayed, and wrote a letter to the TOC in question enclosing my tickets, providing the relevant details, and requesting compensation in accordance with their delay repay policy, would they have to comply?

They certainly have paper forms that you can post to them. Great Northern, who I claimed from the most when I was commuting pre-Covid, have forms in their main stations, or you can get a PDF from their website https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/-...ared-pdfs-and-documents/delay_repay.pdf?la=en to print and send to them (freepost). But they don't offer the full range of repayment options (I think either cheque or travel vouchers, certainly not a bank transfer).

I strongly suspect that using the paper form bypasses the automated handling of claims that clearly happens with online claims, and means that the claim is dealt with by a human from day one. I've never received a "weird" rejection of the kinds being described in this thread when using their paper forms.

I did use their online claim form for a while when it first appeared, but over time the steadily increasing amount of information that you had to enter, duplicating more and more details that were already available to them on the ticket image that you had to upload, and that you never had to write on the paper forms, was irritating me more and more. Then one day they added the requirement to register for an account on their website in order to submit an online claim, which was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, and I've used paper forms for all my claims with them ever since.

 

[jrh2254]

Just filed a claim against London NorthWestern Railway using Microsoft Edge browser. This came up with an LNWR error of " Please reload the page : unauthorized access" Despite reloading several times it came up with the same error. I switched to google browser and eventually managed to get it to submit.
I thought this was it until LNWR came back and said they needed more information, namely :

• Ticket type missing
• Ticket duration missing

I clicked on the link and was taken to another screen where I had to enter my email and was asked to enter this information, along with other data relating to ticket type (off-peak, from and to, e-ticket, validity of ticket etc - all of which they could have got from my photo of my e-ticket!) I consider this to be delaying tactics.
It also kept coming up with "Please reload the page : unauthorized access", so now I am not sure if its submitted or not?

Have others had this problem with LNWR?
Thank you.

 

[py_megapixel]

n Have others had this problem with LNWR?
Thank you.

I have not had this problem. However, I coincidentally was trying to submit a claim to LNR the other day and their website was also being obtuse to use.

The issue here is that my journey was made on two separate tickets, which I believe I am allowed to claim for as a through journey. However the website wanted me to enter the ticket number (needlessly, as they already had a photo of the ticket uploaded earlier!) but wouldn't let me enter two different ticket numbers.

In the end I gave up, and used the paper form instead.

 

[jrh2254]

I have not had this problem. However, I coincidentally was trying to submit a claim to LNR the other day and their website was also being obtuse to use.

The issue here is that my journey was made on two separate tickets, which I believe I am allowed to claim for as a through journey. However the website wanted me to enter the ticket number (needlessly, as they already had a photo of the ticket uploaded earlier!) but wouldn't let me enter two different ticket numbers.

In the end I gave up, and used the paper form instead.

Yes I was about to give up myself ! Thanks for letting me know of the paper option - I might use this next time.
Agree the web form does not allow you to enter 2 different ticket numbers, so this needs sorting out.
However, I did notice that when I was making my claim it asked me if there was more than one person on the ticket(s) - as I purchased 2 tickets using a two together railcard I put 'yes' , it then told me I had to make two separate claims !! I did this, and perhaps this is to get round the two different number issue as in my case they were different.
However I then had another problem - it asked for the price of the ticket, which I put down as the total cost of the two-together transaction in each case. So now I have 2 claims for the full price of the tickets , or was I supposed to half the price paid for each claim?!?

 

[robbeech]

With reference to paper forms. Whilst I’ve only done a handful, i’ve never had a paper claim rejected, even with journeys that would absolutely be (wrongly) rejected online but at the same time I have have online claims rejected, resubmitted, rejected, escalated, approved and paid in LESS time than the average paper claim has been approved so if you want ease of use on a non standard claim, post it off to them, if you want speed, it might still be quicker to go through the saga of 3 rejections.

 

[SteveM70]

Well. Quite the experience with Avanti. Delay to their train Lancaster to Edinburgh on Saturday caused a missed connection and just under an hour late into Aberdeen. Claimed via their website, had to input the ticket details and number, at which point it said they’d located my ticket and there was no need for me to upload a photo. This was despite me having bought the ticket off LNER.

36 hours later (including a Sunday) and the claim was approved, and the money was in my account this morning.

Never had an experience like it!

 

[zero]

I recently filed a claim with Scotrail. Firstly it was returned to me with additional information required - all of which was printed on the ticket, but the website didn't ask me to input it the first time round and let me submit. I was doing it on my phone so may have missed the extra fields, but it shouldn't have let me submit the claim if I hadn't filled in the form fully.

Then it was rejected because I didn't deface the ticket, a day return that wasn't valid by the time I submitted the claim. I drew a line through it digitally (so I still have the original ticket undefaced) and the claim was then accepted and paid out quickly.

 

[Kite159]

Just filed a claim against London NorthWestern Railway using Microsoft Edge browser. This came up with an LNWR error of " Please reload the page : unauthorized access" Despite reloading several times it came up with the same error. I switched to google browser and eventually managed to get it to submit.
I thought this was it until LNWR came back and said they needed more information, namely :

• Ticket type missing
• Ticket duration missing

I clicked on the link and was taken to another screen where I had to enter my email and was asked to enter this information, along with other data relating to ticket type (off-peak, from and to, e-ticket, validity of ticket etc - all of which they could have got from my photo of my e-ticket!) I consider this to be delaying tactics.
It also kept coming up with "Please reload the page : unauthorized access", so now I am not sure if its submitted or not?

Have others had this problem with LNWR?
Thank you.

I had something similar with EMR saying it needed those details when it didn't ask for them the first time round.

Must be Abellios latest system where it tries to read the details from the ticket but fails if it's anything unusual, ie a rover.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Out of interest, but is a claim actually being rejected, or is the customer simply being asked to upload a copy of the defaced old style ticket for approval without needing to reapply?

In my current EMR claim, it has formally been rejected but then I'm asked to show the spoiled ticket. The issue I have is I cant find how to remove the original photo of the unspoiled ticket in order to upload the spoiled one!

 

[All Line Rover]

Just filed a claim against London NorthWestern Railway using Microsoft Edge browser. This came up with an LNWR error of " Please reload the page : unauthorized access" Despite reloading several times it came up with the same error. I switched to google browser and eventually managed to get it to submit.
I thought this was it until LNWR came back and said they needed more information, namely :

• Ticket type missing
• Ticket duration missing

I clicked on the link and was taken to another screen where I had to enter my email and was asked to enter this information, along with other data relating to ticket type (off-peak, from and to, e-ticket, validity of ticket etc - all of which they could have got from my photo of my e-ticket!) I consider this to be delaying tactics.
It also kept coming up with "Please reload the page : unauthorized access", so now I am not sure if its submitted or not?

Have others had this problem with LNWR?
Thank you.

"Missing ticket details" has been an ongoing issue with the LNWR and WMT websites for well over a year.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Just filed a claim against London NorthWestern Railway using Microsoft Edge browser. This came up with an LNWR error of " Please reload the page : unauthorized access" Despite reloading several times it came up with the same error. I switched to google browser and eventually managed to get it to submit.
I thought this was it until LNWR came back and said they needed more information, namely :

• Ticket type missing
• Ticket duration missing

I clicked on the link and was taken to another screen where I had to enter my email and was asked to enter this information, along with other data relating to ticket type (off-peak, from and to, e-ticket, validity of ticket etc - all of which they could have got from my photo of my e-ticket!) I consider this to be delaying tactics.
It also kept coming up with "Please reload the page : unauthorized access", so now I am not sure if its submitted or not?

Have others had this problem with LNWR?
Thank you.

I've had the 'unauthorized access' thing with EMR, and have had it take me straight back to the log in screen several times too.

 

[davews]

Is it '15 minutes late' or 'over 15 minutes late'? My train from Waterloo last night arrived at Martins Heron 15 3/4 minutes late according to RTT. Is it worth claiming?

 

[Watershed]

Is it '15 minutes late' or 'over 15 minutes late'? My train from Waterloo last night arrived at Martins Heron 15 3/4 minutes late according to RTT. Is it worth claiming?

It's 15+ mins late.

 

[miklcct]

It's 15+ mins late.

Yes, I claimed once on a delay with exactly 15 minutes late and got it.