Delay repay for B’ham to Oxford - 06/02

[Fermiboson]

On the 6th I took the 2103 XC service from Birmingham New St to Oxford. The tickets I held were split, with a West Midlands Day Ranger, and Banbury <> Leamington Spa and Oxford <> Banbury off peak return respectively.

The train arrived on time for B’ham, Leamington Spa and Banbury, but departed the latter 12 minutes late and arrived at Oxford 30 minutes late.

What delay repay claim am I eligible for? Technically only the Banbury <> Oxford leg was delayed. Does the day ranger or any prior journeys impact the claim?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I'd say you should claim on the total value of your three tickets, this assuming you were travelling on the same XC service from Birmingham New Street all the way to Oxford, however, will XC deem their train to have been delayed by 29 minutes (ineligible for Delay Repay) or 30 minutes (eligible)? See Realtime Trains link below...

Realtime Trains | 1925 Manchester Piccadilly to Southampton Central | 06/02/2024

Real-time train running information for 1925 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Southampton Central on 06/02/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Fermiboson]

The arrival time was delayed by 30 minutes, so that seems to be what should count.

 

[jfollows]

I'd say you should claim on the total value of your three tickets, this assuming you were travelling on the same XC service from Birmingham New Street all the way to Oxford, however, will XC deem their train to have been delayed by 29 minutes (ineligible for Delay Repay) or 30 minutes (eligible)?

Realtime Trains | 1925 Manchester Piccadilly to Southampton Central | 06/02/2024

Real-time train running information for 1925 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Southampton Central on 06/02/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

30 minutes late arriving, then 29 minutes late leaving Oxford I read it as.

 

[Watershed]

On the 6th I took the 2103 XC service from Birmingham New St to Oxford. The tickets I held were split, with a West Midlands Day Ranger, and Banbury <> Leamington Spa and Oxford <> Banbury off peak return respectively.

The train arrived on time for B’ham, Leamington Spa and Banbury, but departed the latter 12 minutes late and arrived at Oxford 30 minutes late.

What delay repay claim am I eligible for? Technically only the Banbury <> Oxford leg was delayed. Does the day ranger or any prior journeys impact the claim?

You're entitled to Delay Repay based on the combined value of all of your tickets. Day Rangers are usually treated as return tickets for the purposes of delay repay, so in this case, you'd be entitled to 25% of the cost of your tickets as the delay was between 30 and 59 minutes.

The fact that the train was on time as far as Banbury is neither here nor there; the NRCoT gives you the right to be considered to be making one journey even if you use multiple tickets. Therefore it is the delay at your destination that counts.

I'm aware of XC nevertheless trying to deny this in the pas, albeit generally paying up without too much quibble after an appeal. I haven't had cause to claim Delay Repay from them in a while so hopefully they've improved.

 

[Fermiboson]

Some additional interest has resulted.

XC have written back saying that I have already gotten a delay repay on my ranger ticket (I had gotten a 7-something pound LNWR delay repay for the cancelled Stafford to Euston service), and so they were only going to be considering Leamington Spa to Oxford for the delay repay. This does seem a bit weird to me. Surely, by treating the WM day ranger (2x pounds Railcard price) as a B’ham <> Leamington off peak return of 9.30, the amount I would be due for that leg would be 9.30*0.25=2.33 pounds, so the total delay repay I receive would not exceed the ticket cost I paid.

LNWR have also sent an email saying the delay repay was “under manual review”. Is this normal, or do I need to get on the wrong side of Disputes & Prosecutions subforum?

What is the total amount I should be expecting to get? Leamington to Banbury is 7.05 and Banbury to Oxford is 5.20.

 

[Hadders]

Under manual review just means a human is looking at it, rather than leaving it to the sutomated system.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

... and happens on literally every claim I submit with WMT.

 

[Starmill]

Some additional interest has resulted.

XC have written back saying that I have already gotten a delay repay on my ranger ticket (I had gotten a 7-something pound LNWR delay repay for the cancelled Stafford to Euston service), and so they were only going to be considering Leamington Spa to Oxford for the delay repay. This does seem a bit weird to me. Surely, by treating the WM day ranger (2x pounds Railcard price) as a B’ham <> Leamington off peak return of 9.30, the amount I would be due for that leg would be 9.30*0.25=2.33 pounds, so the total delay repay I receive would not exceed the ticket cost I paid.

LNWR have also sent an email saying the delay repay was “under manual review”. Is this normal, or do I need to get on the wrong side of Disputes & Prosecutions subforum?

What is the total amount I should be expecting to get? Leamington to Banbury is 7.05 and Banbury to Oxford is 5.20.

There's no basis for XC's claims. If there were they'd have referred you to where it says so in the Conditions. Sounds like they're simply stonewalling you to save themselves a bit of money.

 

[Fermiboson]

There's no basis for XC's claims. If there were they'd have referred you to where it says so in the Conditions. Sounds like they're simply stonewalling you to save themselves a bit of money.

So the amount I should be asking for is (9.30+7.05+5.20)*0.25 = 5.39 pounds, is that correct?

 

[AlterEgo]

There's no basis for XC's claims. If there were they'd have referred you to where it says so in the Conditions. Sounds like they're simply stonewalling you to save themselves a bit of money.

This is always the wrong thing to do for a TOC - each manual appeal costs money and resource to handle, it's almost akin to being penny wise and pound foolish.

 

[Fermiboson]

Got yet another email back (though this one was admittedly partially due to my delay in replying to one of theirs). The XC position is now apparently that rover tickets don’t exist for the purpose of delay repay.

I’m still in correspondence with the “customer relations” team, but what recourse would I potentially have? I realise this is a matter of two quid, but I’m almost tempted to see it through out of spite at this point.

 

[Starmill]

Got yet another email back (though this one was admittedly partially due to my delay in replying to one of theirs). The XC position is now apparently that rover tickets don’t exist for the purpose of delay repay.

I’m still in correspondence with the “customer relations” team, but what recourse would I potentially have? I realise this is a matter of two quid, but I’m almost tempted to see it through out of spite at this point.

If XC's claim were true there'd be a written exclusion in the Conditions or Delay Repay scheme saying that these tickets aren't eligible. To my knowledge, this doesn't exist*, no doubt XC wouldn't be able to point you towards it if you were to ask.

* if it does and I've missed it somewhere I'd be very grateful if anyone can point me towards a source...

 

[AlterEgo]

Got yet another email back (though this one was admittedly partially due to my delay in replying to one of theirs). The XC position is now apparently that rover tickets don’t exist for the purpose of delay repay.

I’m still in correspondence with the “customer relations” team, but what recourse would I potentially have? I realise this is a matter of two quid, but I’m almost tempted to see it through out of spite at this point.

This is the second time recently XC have come back with a surprising pushback against commonly accepted delay repay practice. I have a funny feeling they are hoping you take it to the (useless) ombudsman who will likely rule in XC's favour - unfairly in my view.

 

[MrJeeves]

I’m still in correspondence with the “customer relations” team, but what recourse would I potentially have? I realise this is a matter of two quid, but I’m almost tempted to see it through out of spite at this point.

Please simply forward them this text Internal Knowledgebase page which clearly describes how to calculate delay repay for ranger and rover tickets:

Train Companies operating Delay Repay schemes issue their own separate instructions with regard to Singles, Returns and Season Tickets.

Below relates solely to Rover and Ranger products - local or national, any period of validity and apply equally to all TOCs.

Some multi-modal PTE products may be exempted from compensation payment. Check locally for any exclusions with your TOC/products.

In order to work out the compensation payable for delays when a customer holds a Rover or Ranger product there are two calculations to make - step one is the compensation payable for the leg of the journey being claimed for and step two is the maximum that can be claimed based on the period of validity of the Rover or Ranger held.

Step One

Compensation is devised based on an Anytime Day Return (or equivalent) of the journey taken and being claimed for, then paid in line with normal compensation thresholds:

• 12.5% of SDR value for 15-29 minutes delay;
• 25% of SDR value for 30-59 minutes delay;
• 50% of SDR value for 60+ minutes.

Step Two

The amount that results from step one above is capped up to a maximum as calculated below.

Compensation is divisible by the number of journeys for the validity of a Rover in the same way as same as a Season Ticket - in other words a 14 day Rover is divided by 28 ('Singles') and then compensation calculated accordingly.

• 25% of 1/28 for 15-29 minutes delay;
• 50% of 1/28 for 30-59 minutes delay;
• 100% of 1/28 for 60+ minutes delay

Note: do not ‘round up’ to nearest 10p.

I'd send the link for you to forward as well, but I've been told not in previous posts.

As far as I'm concerned, XC are taking the mick here, and should be corrected whether this is by reply or through the ombudsman.

 

[Hadders]

This is extremely poor. I had £hundreds in Delay Repay last year from CrossCountry when using Rover tickets.

 

[Fermiboson]

Very weird that previously XC has proactively upgraded claims where I inputted a lesser delay/omitted some delays, costing them hundreds of pounds, and seems unable to acquiesce over a matter of two quid, hence probably costing them upwards of another hundred quid in personnel hours at this point.

— update —
I don’t know if it’s a bad day at the XC office or what, but very bizzarely, they have decided to send me another 3.07 pounds (i.e. The delay repay value for the two return tickets) on top of the already paid out 3.07 pounds, instead of the 2.33 pounds I was due for the rover.

I have no idea what is going on, but hey, I’ll take it.