Delay repay if refused entry to a train station as too busy / social distancing

[Jamiescott1]

as more people start to go back to work and trains get busier could train companies limit access to stations / attempt to stop people getting on trains to ensure socisl distancing is maintained (similar to supermarkets current queueing)

If this happens will you be able to claim for late arrival ?

 

[Jamiescott1]

... how will this be managed as trains will be fuller the nearer they get to their destination or main station

 

[birchesgreen]

WMR want people to not board trains if "busy" and wait for the next one, not sure how this works in practice when you want to go home on a dark wet night. Plus as any fool knows the next train is unlikely to be less busy...

 

[ld0595]

Interestingly someone asked a similar question to Scotrail today. They asked whether they'd be entitled to alternative transport home if the last service of the day was too busy to follow physical distancing measures. The reply pretty much said they had to make their own arrangements home regardless.

 

[BJames]

Interestingly someone asked a similar question to Scotrail today. They asked whether they'd be entitled to alternative transport home if the last service of the day was too busy to follow physical distancing measures. The reply pretty much said they had to make their own arrangements home regardless.

That's disappointing. If they expect people to follow social distancing but at no cost to the TOC then they're in for a surprise.

 

[yorkie]

Interestingly someone asked a similar question to Scotrail today. They asked whether they'd be entitled to alternative transport home if the last service of the day was too busy to follow physical distancing measures. The reply pretty much said they had to make their own arrangements home regardless.

I'd definitely be getting on the last train then!

Bear in mind social distancing is only "where possible"; it's not always possible on PT, hence the mandating of masks, as per WHO guidelines.

If the company lays on a "relief" train or alternative transport, or there is a frequent service, and you choose to delay your journey, you are arguably not liable to Delay Repay compensation.

However if the company denies you boarding, you are entitled to claim delay compensation.

 

[323235]

That's disappointing. If they expect people to follow social distancing but at no cost to the TOC then they're in for a surprise.

Surely the ultimate cost of this gets passed onto the government/taxpayer, if it isn't covered by revenue and doesn't come out of the operators EMA management fee?)

 

[BJames]

Surely the ultimate cost of this gets passed onto the government/taxpayer, if it isn't covered by revenue and doesn't come out of the operators EMA management fee?)

True, but that's still reason for the passenger not to foot the bill.

But it's as yorkie says - you can get on the train unless a member of staff prevents you from boarding (social distancing isn't law anyway), in which instance you are entitled to delay repay (or for the last train of the day alternative transportation really).

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Interestingly someone asked a similar question to Scotrail today. They asked whether they'd be entitled to alternative transport home if the last service of the day was too busy to follow physical distancing measures. The reply pretty much said they had to make their own arrangements home regardless.

Of course, that was just something that the member of staff made up, since ScotRail's website says the exact opposite.

as more people start to go back to work and trains get busier could train companies limit access to stations / attempt to stop people getting on trains to ensure socisl distancing is maintained (similar to supermarkets current queueing)

If this happens will you be able to claim for late arrival ?

Queuing at busy times was one of the measures that were leaked to the press back in March, IIRC, as one of the possible measures to ensure that "social distancing" guidelines were upheld. It's not a new idea and I'm sure it will apply in certain cases.

If you are physically denied entry you will always have recourse by means of delay compensation or alternative transport/accomodation where the train in question is the last connection of the day. Otherwise it will depend on the policy of the TOC involved.

 

[323235]

True, but that's still reason for the passenger not to foot the bill.

But it's as yorkie says - you can get on the train unless a member of staff prevents you from boarding (social distancing isn't law anyway), in which instance you are entitled to delay repay (or for the last train of the day alternative transportation really).

Absolutely the passenger should NOT be footing the bill.

 

[birchesgreen]

WMR have said that busy trains may not make scheduled stops if too busy, how on Earth is this going to work in reality? What if you want to alight at a certain stop? "Sorry because the train was too fully we're letting you get off miles from home." Madness.

 

[AdamWW]

WMR have said that busy trains may not make scheduled stops if too busy, how on Earth is this going to work in reality? What if you want to alight at a certain stop? "Sorry because the train was too fully we're letting you get off miles from home." Madness.

Well announcing en route that a train is going to skip stops to make up time certainly has happened in the past. However, at the moment if trains are too busy, having passengers go past their stop and have to take another train back doesn't sound all that useful.

 

[birchesgreen]

Well announcing en route that a train is going to skip stops to make up time certainly has happened in the past. However, at the moment if trains are too busy, having passengers go past their stop and have to take another train back doesn't sound all that useful.

I went back to the announcement, they said stations might be closed if too busy so going back wouldn't be an option then! Looks like taxis could make some cash out of this.

 

[birchesgreen]

Funny i just asked WMR about it and they said they don't plan to skip any stations, why did they post a video saying they could do just that then? Very confusing.

 

[AdamWW]

I went back to the announcement, they said stations might be closed if too busy so going back wouldn't be an option then! Looks like taxis could make some cash out of this.

Possibly they meant closed to passengers intending to board?

Then again, when Cardiff Queen Street closes after a rugby match, no-one is allowed out either.

 

[birchesgreen]

I suspect no one really knows how it is going to work out in practice.

 

[AdamWW]

I suspect no one really knows how it is going to work out in practice.

Quite.

Hardly a bit surprising there is some confusion when everyone is having to make it up as they go along.

 

[Mag_seven]

Social distancing on trains cannot be sustained long term if we are to get the economy back up and running again - when are the TOCs going to realise that? That's why we have to wear face coverings on trains - because when a train gets busy social distancing isn't possible.

 

[AdamWW]

Social distancing on trains cannot be sustained long term if we are to get the economy back up and running again - when are the TOCs going to realise that? That's why we have to wear face coverings on trains - because when a train gets busy social distancing isn't possible.

Is it entirely up to the TOCs?

It certainly isn't just up to other businesses how they implement "Covid-safe" requirements - and they mostly aren't being directly funded by the government.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Having been on trains and buses in France there was no social distancing.
One bus I took was full and standing. Masks mandatory.

My main concern is that at high wycombe station they have set up a queueing system to enter the station with barriers and markings on the floor every 2 metres

 

[Mag_seven]

Having been on trains and buses in France there was no social distancing.
One bus I took was full and standing. Masks mandatory.

My main concern is that at high wycombe station they have set up a queueing system to enter the station with barriers and markings on the floor every 2 metres

It appears to be the case that train / bus operators are still trying to maintain social distancing when its not the case in other countries. This is unsustainable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It appears to be the case that train / bus operators are still trying to maintain social distancing when its not the case in other countries. This is unsustainable.

Other countries seem to be seeing spikes and we aren't (so far). Does that say something about this perhaps?

 

[Mag_seven]

Other countries seem to be seeing spikes and we aren't (so far). Does that say something about this perhaps?

The spikes are being related to things like factories and nightclubs. I have not seen anyone link a spike to public transport usage.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Is it entirely up to the TOCs?

It certainly isn't just up to other businesses how they implement "Covid-safe" requirements - and they mostly aren't being directly funded by the government.

'Covid-safe' is a set of guidelines. It's not the law, or a requirement for anything. Admittedly the DfT will be leaning heavily on TOCs to still be implementing various Covid related measures.

 

[Jamiescott1]

The spikes are being related to things like factories and nightclubs. I have not seen anyone link a spike to public transport usage.

Going off at a tangent but im sure no one has died of covid-19 after trying on an item of clothing in a shop within 72 hours of someone else

 

[AdamWW]

'Covid-safe' is a set of guidelines. It's not the law, or a requirement for anything. Admittedly the DfT will be leaning heavily on TOCs to still be implementing various Covid related measures.

I thought the HSE could take action against companies not taking sufficient precautions.

Is that not the case?

Could a shop just go back to how things were and no part of the government could or would do anything about it?

Anyway if the issue is that we need to drop social distancing on public transport to get the economy going, surely that's a matter for the government not individual TOCs?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I thought the HSE could take action against companies not taking sufficient precautions.

Is that not the case?

Could a shop just go back to how things were and no part of the government could or would do anything about it?

Anyway if the issue is that we need to drop social distancing on public transport to get the economy going, surely that's a matter for the government not individual TOCs?

The HSE could take action if an employer was acting in breach of their duties under the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act towards non-employees (i.e. the public). It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to bring a prosecution based solely on ignorance of non-statutory guidelines - especially given that there are no known coronavirus cases in 99% of local areas.

 

[AdamWW]

The HSE could take action if an employer was acting in breach of their duties under the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act towards non-employees (i.e. the public). It would be very difficult, if not impossible, to bring a prosecution based solely on ignorance of non-statutory guidelines - especially given that there are no known coronavirus cases in 99% of local areas.

Although of course the situation is different in Wales where it is the law that, for example, so far as is reasonable taxi passengers must sit more than 2 m from the driver.

 

[birchesgreen]

Well WMR never got answered my question about what would happen if people couldn't get off at their intended destination. They have issued amber alerts for trains in 3 hours time which they say will be too busy for SD. Maybe we'll get some red alerts later and people stranded on platforms miles from home. What larks!

 

[Jamiescott1]

Despite my local mp being a brexiter he is very anti lockdown and against restrictions so hopefully if denied access to a train I'd get him on side