Delay repay on ALR/rovers/flexipasses

[Intermodal]

Hi all,

Simple question: can you, and if so, how do you, claim back delays on a rover/ALR?

What do they base the repayment on?

Thanks!

 

[bb21]

I think they are based on daily rates pro rata iirc. Different companies have differing policies on that.

 

[yorkie]

Depends on the company. Simply make your claim as normal and see what happens.

 

[WillPS]

From what I've read, if you use the Caledonian Sleeper on an ALR and you're delayed, you've effectively struck the jackpot. A member on here was refunded well over £100 for a single delay.

Based on this principal, it seems entirely possible to "profit" from an ALR. I use inverted commas since it's not cash, and in fact using a voucher worth over £100 isn't easy unless you intend to buy another ALR.

 

[AlterEgo]

ATOC have their own guidelines around rover compensation, but each company can use it's own discretion. There are no firm rules, but as a guideline, for a 7 day ALR a "severe" delay would attract up to 10% in compensation, in vouchers.

 

[rail-britain]

how do you, claim back delays on a rover/ALR?
What do they base the repayment on?

See my claims from 2009 :
http://www.rail-britain.co.uk/wordpress/?page_id=517

You need to claim for each journey made
You may need to photocopy the ticket (to send with claim)
You may also need to send the seat reservation, to keep a copy for yourself
Once you have completed their Charter Claim form, keep a copy for yourself
Details for how they calculate the refund is included in their Charter
This is based on half the Open Return fare, between the points of that journey

Some services I used were delayed by up to 29 minutes, but you are unable to claim
Due to planning I did not miss any connections, I made one claim (just to see if they were willing to make a goodwill gesture) but it was rejected

A delay of between 30 and 59 minutes results in a goodwill gesture (based on the fare paid)

A delay of 60 minutes or more results in the full refund (as above, half the Open Return fare for a Rover)
When using the Caledonian Sleeper this is a substantial amount, and mine was £114 due to it being the Inverness - Euston, with a First Class ALR

 

[All Line Rover]

ATOC's John Horncastle said that compensation is not applicable to All Line Rovers (don't know about other Rovers), for some weird "pre-BR-era" reason. However, TOC's can use their discretion.

On calling around, most TOC's who use Delay Repay will give 1/10th of the ticket price for delays of over 1h, or 1/20th of the ticket price for delays between 30m and 59m.

TPE are a big exception, saying that they won't give any compensation whatsoever! :roll:

Virgin/FGW are two other big exceptions, in that they don't offer delay repay. Virgin has a measly compensation policy at the moment, but their Customer Relations department is quite generous. I'd imagine getting compensation levels similar to that of Delay Repay, but only for delays of over 1h.

 

[Intermodal]

Thanks all - very interesting. rail-britain - it looks like you made a substantial headway towards your next ALR with those vouchers!

 

[rail-britain]

rail-britain - it looks like you made a substantial headway towards your next ALR with those vouchers!

I wasn't able to complete one in 2010, so I used the vouchers to perform two return trips from Glasgow during August 2010
The first was to Rugby, stopping off at Rugeley Trent Valley on the way back
The second was to London, out via Preston, and return via Doncaster and York

 

[dcd]

I have just made 2 claims when using a 1st Senior all line rover cost £429.

EMT Norwich to Peterborough 1hr delay on a Saturday. The fare that I could have bought as a single 2nd class as no first on that train would be £11.60. Compensation £38.

AXC Peterborough to Birmingham New Street 48 minutes delay on a Saturday. The fare for single SNR 1st class would be £69.95. Compensation £10.72.

So no idea how it is calculated I would have expected

EMT £11.60 full cast
AXC £ 35.75 half price

So I ended up with more than expected but not how I expected.

 

[rail-britain]

I have just made 2 claims when using a 1st Senior all line rover cost £429.

EMT Norwich to Peterborough 1hr delay on a Saturday. The fare that I could have bought as a single 2nd class as no first on that train would be £11.60. Compensation £38.

AXC Peterborough to Birmingham New Street 48 minutes delay on a Saturday. The fare for single SNR 1st class would be £69.95. Compensation £10.72.

So no idea how it is calculated I would have expected

The EMT is half the return fare, looks quite fair at £38

The AXC delay was under 1 hour, so is the 30 minute to 59 minute delay compensation tarrif
This will be one quarter of the return fare

 

[dcd]

The EMT is half the return fare, looks quite fair at £38

The AXC delay was under 1 hour, so is the 30 minute to 59 minute delay compensation tarrif
This will be one quarter of the return fare

highest EMT return fare is £18.15 so it is more than double not half.

AXC is indeed quarter of te return fare second class not first class which I travelled.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

I have done 2 delay repay claims on Heart of England Rovers. (3 in 7 with YP railcard).

First one gave £11 for a hours delay due to major overcrowding on a 153 (so bad they had to use a 158 on the next journey). Journey being Derby - Crewe

The other was due to a hours delay due to a 153 breaking down causing me to miss a desiro connection which I had a reservation on. They gave £6 (Nuneaton - Stafford)

So really it's luck of the draw!

 

[[email protected].]

If you use a Rover but don't reserve seat, how do you/they prove you where on the delayed service?

 

[bnm]

If you use a Rover but don't reserve seat, how do you/they prove you where on the delayed service?

If you use a walk-up ticket (Anytime, Off Peak) but don't reserve a seat, how do you/they prove you were on the delayed service?

It doesn't matter.

 

[Smethwickian]

If you use a Rover but don't reserve seat, how do you/they prove you where on the delayed service?

You can't, any more than with any other unreserved ticket.

I'm guessing it's a matter of trust, although they might be able to detect inconsistencies in your complaint - if you were genuinely on a delayed service, your claim might be expected to give a reasonably accurate delay figure, and if the form asks for reasons, they would probably expect you to repeat whatever excuse was given to passengers at the time. Has anyone ever had a claim queried or rejected because the TOC wasn't happy with the information provided?

Do TOCs keep records of payouts so that they can detect serial claimants?

Or is the amount paid out not so big in the grand scheme of things that it is worth them investing the time and effort to seriously scrutinise claims, other than confirming that it relates to a know delay?

 

[rail-britain]

Do TOCs keep records of payouts so that they can detect serial claimants?

Apparently not

If you examine mine you will find two claims, two different trains, both from Edinburgh on
Sunday 21 June 2009
I had a reserved seat on NXEC Edinburgh - Kings Cross
However, I travelled on the AXC Edinburgh - Newcastle, and then swapped on to the above
The first claim was AXC Edinburgh to York
The second claim was NXEC Edinburgh to Peterborough, including an explanation I had to abort this journey due to late running and unable to reach my intended destination

 

[AlterEgo]

Do TOCs keep records of payouts so that they can detect serial claimants?

Yes they do. Information can also be shared between TOCs to detect fraudulent claims. There have been a couple of cases which have resulted in successful prosecutions over the last year.

 

[furgus2]

Regarding receiving compensation for train delays, I travelled from Doncaster to Kings Cross on 28th June by East Coast when I had a 1st class All line Rover. There was a 105 minute delay due to lightening striking signalling equipment. I received £99.30 travel vouchers today from East Coast which I am pleased to have.

 

[Mr Spock]

Apparently not

If you examine mine you will find two claims, two different trains, both from Edinburgh on
Sunday 21 June 2009
I had a reserved seat on NXEC Edinburgh - Kings Cross
However, I travelled on the AXC Edinburgh - Newcastle, and then swapped on to the above
The first claim was AXC Edinburgh to York
The second claim was NXEC Edinburgh to Peterborough, including an explanation I had to abort this journey due to late running and unable to reach my intended destination

Seems to me that if you claimed for the same journey twice then that amounts to fraud.

As for claiming from AXC for Edinburgh-York when you only travelled as far as Newcastle with them that amounts to fraud as well.

 

[yorkie]

A former customer services manager at NXEC told me they had a list of people who they suspect of fraudulent claims, and when they are able to find claims that are fraudulent they do act. I would imagine one or two people may find themselves to be on that list!

 

[rail-britain]

Seems to me that if you claimed for the same journey twice then that amounts to fraud.

As for claiming from AXC for Edinburgh-York when you only travelled as far as Newcastle with them that amounts to fraud as well.

I had a reservation on the Edinburgh - Kings Cross, but travelled on the Edinburgh - York
Shows how flawed the setup is
Either way I was still unable to complete my journey to Kings Cross, and the amount paid as compensation reflects that

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm a little confused. Did you claim for a train you didn't actually travel on?

 

[rail-britain]

I'm a little confused. Did you claim for a train you didn't actually travel on?

No, I travelled on both
Had intended only travelling on the Edinburgh - Kings Cross
The connection with the Glasgow - Edinburgh only leaves 1 minute for the 08:50 Edinburgh - Newcastle, thus allowing me to travel on the AXC HST

The first claim was AXC, between Edinburgh and York
The second claim was NXEC between York and Peterborough
However, NXEC paid out based on the seat reservation (Edinburgh and Kings Cross) and having to abort the journey at Peterborough

 

[yorkie]

I think rail-britain is saying that he made 2 claims for the same journey, splitting the "claim" at York, however EC didn't realise that the claim had been "split" and paid out as if rail-britain had only claimed from them.

 

[transportphoto]

I think rail-britain is saying that he made 2 claims for the same journey, splitting the "claim" at York, however EC didn't realise that the claim had been "split" and paid out as if rail-britain had only claimed from them.

That is how I understand it too

 

[rail-britain]

I think rail-britain is saying that he made 2 claims for the same journey, splitting the "claim" at York, however EC didn't realise that the claim had been "split" and paid out as if rail-britain had only claimed from them.

Pretty much
I even completed the form that I travelled between York and Peterborough only
NXEC replied with the usual apologies and confirmed the compensation reflected the original reservation, with the disruption resulting in me aborting the journey

They even paid out for a train I did not travel on, as I had to travel on an earlier FSR service
Again, the usual apologies and the compensation was based on the reservation only!
Wednesday 01 July
I just sent a copy of the reservation, ticket, and complaint in writing outlining just by luck I was in Edinburgh in good time to travel one hour earlier than intended and had I waited I would then have missed a subsequent connection, did not complete the compensation form

 

[Mr Spock]

Apparently not

If you examine mine you will find two claims, two different trains, both from Edinburgh on
Sunday 21 June 2009
I had a reserved seat on NXEC Edinburgh - Kings Cross
However, I travelled on the AXC Edinburgh - Newcastle, and then swapped on to the above
The first claim was AXC Edinburgh to York
The second claim was NXEC Edinburgh to Peterborough, including an explanation I had to abort this journey due to late running and unable to reach my intended destination

Your original posting implies that you claimed for Edinburgh to York and Edinburgh to Peterborough but if what you say later is what happened then that does seem a better explanation.

 

[rail-britain]

Your original posting implies that you claimed for Edinburgh to York and Edinburgh to Peterborough but if what you say later is what happened then that does seem a better explanation.

Depends on what way you look at it
I completed the forms for the ACTUAL journeys made
I then included the Seat Reservations which I held, and it is those that they paid out on
It is those compensation payments I have always referred to
Hence why NXEC paid out on a journey I didn't even make with them, but I had I travelled with them I would have also not made the destination (Edinburgh to Aberdeen), just by luck I had arrived in Edinburgh such that I could take the earlier service