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Derailment at Farringdon

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notaspota

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It was only eastbound trains on the underground lines which were suspended, but delays on westbound.
 

Dstock7080

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It was only eastbound trains on the underground lines which were suspended, but delays on westbound.
Actually, westbound trains were suspended until 10.45.
Services were running Hammersmith-Kings Cross, and traditional outer-rail Circle only.
The train derailed on 24Rd at 05.31.
 

motorman

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To answer the first question there are three sidings at Farringdon located just east of the station between the westbound circle line and the former widened lines. Only two sidings can not be accessed by stabling service trains the siding closest to the westbound Circle Line having been shortened in the past couple of years. Presumaly now only used by engineering trains. I presume the new arrangements have been made in conjunction with introduction of the new longer S Stock trains.
 

jopsuk

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as an aside, what's the background to the numbering of those sidings? There seem to be precious few locations with a No. 1 rd...
 

Mojo

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From the North/closest to Westbound/Anticlockwise: 25, 24 & 23 - according to the map in Post #2!
I think he was asking why it is so numbered (i.e. why it starts at 23 and not 1).
 

notaspota

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Actually, westbound trains were suspended until 10.45.
Services were running Hammersmith-Kings Cross, and traditional outer-rail Circle only.
The train derailed on 24Rd at 05.31.

Ah yeah, was waiting a while for a circle line train.
 

Bushy

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as an aside, what's the background to the numbering of those sidings? There seem to be precious few locations with a No. 1 rd...
There were extensive sidings in what was a triangular junction between Farringdon, Aldersgate (Barbican) and Snow Hill, used for transport of carcasses to and from Smithfield Market. This area is now the car park under Smithfield.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smithfield,_London
http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/Farringdon_Moorgate.html

As an aside, I was taken on a tour of the Citigen Combined Heat and Power Station which is close to the railway in Charterhouse Street. We were told that the legacy records they had gave floor loadings in carcasses rather than the normal lb/sq.ft

Regards

Bushy
 

Dstock7080

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From the North/closest to Westbound/Anticlockwise: 25, 24 & 23 - according to the map in Post #2!
Most LU depots and sidings indeed start from 21; Ealing Broadway, Acton Town, Parsons Green, Whitechapel, Barking, Edgware Road, Cockfosters. A few disregard this; Ealing Common starting from A (1 coming after D), Ruislip starting from 31.
Upminster did start from 24 but later expansion has added 17-23.
This maybe the reason for starting at a higher number, to allow for future expansion.
 

Mojo

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Familiar with me; Northfields and White City depots both start with 1. As Dstock7080 said Ruislip starts with 31, but there is also an A, B and C (although the track is currently missing from these) in addition to the 2x roads starting in the platform. The BR Link road doesn't seem to be numbered but leads onto 27Rd (I think?) Also starting at 31 is South Harrow (although 2 roads are unavailable for use as 83 stock is parked up in them).
 

tsr

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Apologies - I misread the post to which I replied (above).

As for why this happens, presumably it does add some flexibility to the numbering, but I can't say I've ever heard a definitive reason before, and I'm not sure that sounds like the whole story - but then maybe it is.

Might there be some link to resignalling, so that the lines are renumbered for the new signalling system to avoid confusion with old/redundant components? Just a guess. Or maybe it's to do with directional access.

The Waterloo & City Line depot seems to start the sidings proper at Number 2. Hmmm!
 

swt_passenger

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I remember a thread in District Dave's forum, that explained that away from depots the normal routine is that a 'stand alone' group of sidings is usually numbered from 21 upwards, but with an important proviso that if the sidings are considered as integrated with a nearby station then they may (but not always) be numbered including the platform lines, which would usually take 21 upwards (but not normally be referred to as such), so where you see a '23 road' for instance, there could well be an unmarked 21 and 22 at the nearby station.

Sometimes this detail is shown in Quail vol 5, for example at Uxbridge the platform roads are marked as 21, 22 and 23, with the adjacent sidings being 24 upwards. Thinking about it some more, perhaps this is the logical approach if the platform roads are normally intended to be used for overnight stabling?
 
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Met Driver

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Watford is another example of platforms being included in the sequence, looking north from left to right you have 21 road (siding), 22 road (platform 1), 23 road (platform 2) and 24 road (siding).

The numbering sequence at Ruislip depot arguably starts with platform 2 at West Ruislip (21 road). Platform 1 is 22 road, and then you have 23, 25 and 27 roads (shunting necks with the latter giving access to the BR link road), 24 reception road and 26 reception (wash) road.
 

jopsuk

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Golders Green appears to be an odd one! According to Carto Metro there's sidings 1-33 in the depot, and roads 21-27 at the station, including sidings that are either side of the depot entrance
 

Rogmi

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Golders Green appears to be an odd one! According to Carto Metro there's sidings 1-33 in the depot, and roads 21-27 at the station, including sidings that are either side of the depot entrance

Actually Golders Green makes sense when looked at from an operating point of view as Golders Green is in effect two totally separate areas - main line (passenger) and depot. 33 road is normally referred to as "the depot shunting neck" and is under the control of the depot. All moves in and out of 33 road are all self-contained within the depot and have no effect on the main (passenger) side.

21 – 23 road are the platform roads
24 – 26 roads are sidings that are used for stabling or reversing, usually when the service is disrupted
27 road is the shunting neck that trains to from the platforms use when going to / from the depot. All these roads are on the passenger side and come under the control of the signaller. 27 road is als under the control of the signaller, permission given from the depot if it is required for a train in the neck to go to depot.

Edgware
1 – 3 platform roads
4 – 11 depot sidings. There used to be further sidings (12 - 16) on the other side of the main line, of which only 16 remains (now no longer physically connected and due for removal).
There were also two sidings (17 and 18)in what is now the waste ground the other side of the old main line (shown dotted on Carto Metro). These were to form part of the main line to Burnt Oak under the proposed extension north of Edgware.
There were also two shunting necks at the south end of the depot (54 and 55), since swallowed up by the expansion of the depot and additional sidings at the south end for the introduction of 95 stock on the line. Additional sidings 35 – 42 were added.

High Barnet
The platforms are 21 – 23, with the sidings 24 – 31 and the shunting neck 32.
In preparation for the temporary 95 stock storage, an extra shunting neck (33) was added, and three extra sidings (34 – 36) were added in the gap between platform 3 and 24 sidings.

Morden
1 – 34 are depot sidings
26 was removed and 27 road became the Paint Road for the 95 stock paint building that spans the end
41 – 43 are the platforms
44 and 45 are the depot approach roads
54 and 55 roads are shunting necks withing the wash roads which also double up as shunting necks for depot moves.

Some places may have gaps in the road / siding numbering due to layout changes over the years, especially where there used to be goods traffic and the sidings later disappeared. East Finchley and Finchley Central are good examples of this.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I missed Highgate out!

Highgate depot
cira1950
21 – 24: Wellington sidings
25 – 23: Highgate depot sidings
37 road: single line depot approach road to the north end of the depot off the SB main line
1 – 4: Highgate woods sidings

Highgate sidings (no longer called depot!)
Today
1 – 9: “depot” sidings
10: test track
11: Engineers siding
37 road: single line depot approach road to the north end of the depot
plus, not numbered:
Engineers siding
Tamping spur

East Finchley
circa 1950
21 – 23: platform roads
24: siding
26: access road to goods yard
28 – 32: Goods yard sidings
There were a lot of changes to the East Finchley area with the coming of the Northern line extension. This included various temporary layouts, such as crossovers south of the station between the main line and underground lines – allowing trains from middle platform 3 to go into the tunnel and NB main line trains to go to platform 1 (it would have been useful if they were still there today!). Also today’s southbound road used as a siding (next to the existing siding) and 26 road being used as the main SB line.
 
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machorne

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as an aside, what's the background to the numbering of those sidings? There seem to be precious few locations with a No. 1 rd...

Apologies if I've missed a response to this. LU (and before that LT) practice is to number sidings from 1 upwards. HOWEVER where access to sidings is authorized by shunt signals with (so-called) theatre type route indicators then the number 20 is added such that sidings are numbered 21 upwards. This is because the route indicators can show numbers from 1 - 19 and the signals people wanted to reduce the possibility that the displayed number might be confused with the siding number.

As far as I can see the original instruction for this arrangement was issued in a notice to drawing office staff dated 12 March 1938. I think the example given in the other correspondence all conforms to this pattern.
 

Rogmi

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HOWEVER where access to sidings is authorized by shunt signals with (so-called) theatre type route indicators then the number 20 is added such that sidings are numbered 21 upwards. This is because the route indicators can show numbers from 1 - 19 and the signals people wanted to reduce the possibility that the displayed number might be confused with the siding number.

Never let London Underground be accused of being consistant :)
Highgate sidings are numbered 1- 9, but the theatre route indicator is offset plus 1 for the siding roads, meaning route 2 is for no. 1 siding, route 3 is for no. 2 siding and so on up to route 10 for no.9 siding.
This is beacasue the first signalled route from the left is for up to the handworked points that lead to the Tamping Spur and the Engineers siding. I don’t know why Highgate was numbered in this way as they could have standardised it when they remodelled / resignalled Highgate after they decided to bring it back into use.

High Barnet on the other hand, avoids any possible confusion by just showing route 4 from the shunting neck for any of the stabling roads – you don’t know where you’re going until you arrive there! (1 – 3 are for the platforms).
 
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