Derailment at Kirkby (Merseyside) - 13/03/2021

[galwhv69]

"Shocked" ? I would have used "pleased", "happy" or "overjoyed".

This proves that traincrew are human and once in a while something nasty happens.

Removing the 507s might have to be at walking pace with no brakes on the damaged cab car but hopefully brakes still working on the other two vehicles of that set. Not sure whether 507s and 508s are bar coupled which possibly means the rear vehicle could be hauled as an out of gauge movement to the nearest road access, or maybe even to Kirkdale if it fits through the Kirkdale tunnels.

Apologies for my use of terminology. I did not mean this in a bad way, just that I was shocked/surprised that nobody was injured, from what I saw from the photo's & videos of the scene showing how severe it is. Obviously it's good that nobody was injured.

 

[43096]

Removing the 507s might have to be at walking pace with no brakes on the damaged cab car but hopefully brakes still working on the other two vehicles of that set. Not sure whether 507s and 508s are bar coupled which possibly means the rear vehicle could be hauled as an out of gauge movement to the nearest road access, or maybe even to Kirkdale if it fits through the Kirkdale tunnels.

That leading car is a long way from being removed by rail - there will be a huge amount of underframe damage.

 

[M60lad]

Out of interest how many 507/508s have Merseyrail got out of service at the moment? How will this unfortunate incident have an impact (if any) on services in the future considering their going to be another unit or 2 down with no sign of the new 777s entering service yet?

 

[ungreat]

I'm just pleased that there were no serious injuries

 

[Vespa]

Good luck removing it from the site by road. Very tricky location

It will be cut up on site if thats the case, not the first time that's been done if a train is derailed at an awkward location.

Nothing to apologise for at all! Just adding some more information.
Yes, there’s been 3 now. To be honest I really didn’t think we’d ever see it happen again after TPWS was installed, but there you go!

That's why they put a big block there, if I recall it used to be one line of rail with buffer stops clipped to the rail for each side of the boundary.

Obviously after the first incident the block was put there, it done it's job preventing it going further and crashing into a Northern Rail train.

 

[Horizon22]

It's simple, the train should have stopped, didn't and hence the accident.
There you go,
solved!

Think the RAIB will delve a little further into the why it didn't stop!

 

[TrainSailing]

They will have seen what was coming, hit the emergency brake button and left the cab before the collision. Probably! If they were still in the cab, they will have been very lucky indeed

Complete and utter rubbish. So many assumptions made.

 

[Gathursty]

What are the chances that at least one of the wheels could have landed perfectly on the rails on the Northern platform

 

[TheSel]

Think the RAIB will delve a little further into the why it didn't stop!

To be fair, it DID stop.

Not in the intended manner, admittedly.

 

[Wezz]

That leading car is a long way from being removed by rail - there will be a huge amount of underframe damage.

They'll either drag it back to Kirkdale using dolly's or they'll get a crane and lift it, but I couldn't see that bridge supporting the weight of a crane + a 40+ tonne carriage, if they do lift it then it'll likely be lifted from track level

 

[507 001]

It will be cut up on site if thats the case, not the first time that's been done if a train is derailed at an awkward location.


That's why they put a big block there, if I recall it used to be one line of rail with buffer stops clipped to the rail for each side of the boundary.

Obviously after the first incident the block was put there, it done it's job preventing it going further and crashing into a Northern Rail train.

The block was put there to widen the footpath, it’s nothing to do with stopping the train as it only goes half way across the ‘four foot’.

 

[Vespa]

The block was put there to widen the footpath, it’s nothing to do with stopping the train as it only goes half way across the ‘four foot’.

I think it was both mate, a wider footpath and a very effective buffer stop, the fact the train deflected away from NR tracks is fortunate.

 

[WatcherZero]

Its amazing that 16 hours later the entire national media have completely failed to pick up on the story. The only thing they care about is the protest in Clapham.

 

[edwin_m]

The block was put there to widen the footpath, it’s nothing to do with stopping the train as it only goes half way across the ‘four foot’.

I suspect the buffer stop provision will be a significant question here. From one of the photos this is a traditional buffer stop, where modern practice would be to provide a sliding friction stop if possible (there appears to be enough length behind it). The concrete block being only half way across would appear to have pushed the train sideways and allowed it to plough through the ballast for a few more metres. This was probably better than having it stop instantly if the block had been wider and hit square on.

 

[Ianno87]

I suspect the buffer stop provision will be a significant question here. From one of the photos this is a traditional buffer stop, where modern practice would be to provide a sliding friction stop if possible (there appears to be enough length behind it). The concrete block being only half way across would appear to have pushed the train sideways and allowed it to plough through the ballast for a few more metres. This was probably better than having it stop instantly if the block had been wider and hit square on.

No way would that layout be permissible with modern standards applied, with:

-The sideways deflection of the train
-The close proximity behind the buffers of pedestrians stood on the concrete
-The bridge immediately above with a risk of the train "riding upwards" into the structure.

I suspect the layout will remain with "grandfather rights" until Headbolt Lane opens.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Its amazing that 16 hours later the entire national media have completely failed to pick up on the story. The only thing they care about is the protest in Clapham.

Would you prefer it if the media were 'all over it' shouting hysterically about how dangerous trains are? Despite statistics saying otherwise.

Basically, there is no news story, certainly not a national one, I suggest not even a regional one, merely local.
A rail vehicle over-ran (reasons as yet unknown and to be investigated);
it hit something solid;
there were no serious injuries to staff or passengers or bystanders;
there is ongoing disruption whilst it is cleared up.

Only the last line is newsworthy, and then less so because of reduced travel due to Covid restrictions.

If this were a road accident, it wouldn't merit a mention either.

 

[Wezz]

Would you prefer it if the media were 'all over it' shouting hysterically about how dangerous trains are? Despite statistics saying otherwise.

Basically, there is no news story, certainly not a national one, I suggest not even a regional one, merely local.
A rail vehicle over-ran (reasons as yet unknown and to be investigated);
it hit something solid;
there were no serious injuries to staff or passengers or bystanders;
there is ongoing disruption whilst it is cleared up.

Only the last line is newsworthy, and then less so because of reduced travel due to Covid restrictions.

If this were a road accident, it wouldn't merit a mention either.

BBC northwest covered the 2009 derailment at Kirkdale..

 

[ComUtoR]

Its amazing that 16 hours later the entire national media have completely failed to pick up on the story. The only thing they care about is the protest in Clapham.

Passenger train derails and ‘smashes into bridge’ at station

An investigation has been launched into how the train managed to leave the tracks.

metro.co.uk

An investigation has been launched into how the train managed to leave the tracks and hit a buffer stop just after 6.30pm on Saturday, causing significant damage.

The driver of the Merseyrail service was taken to Aintree Hospital by ambulance as a precautionary measure.

In total 12 passengers were on board the 6.35pm travelling from Knowsley toward Liverpool, along with two crew members.

The passengers all managed to walk off the train following the smash and were checked by paramedics at the scene.

They were described as ‘walking wounded’ with minor injuries.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The Metro story (above) appears to be referencing the wrong train as being involved in the incident.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It will be cut up on site if thats the case, not the first time that's been done if a train is derailed at an awkward location.


That's why they put a big block there, if I recall it used to be one line of rail with buffer stops clipped to the rail for each side of the boundary.

Obviously after the first incident the block was put there, it done it's job preventing it going further and crashing into a Northern Rail train.

You may be thinking of Ormskirk which was and still is buffer stops only, though the rails aren't physically connected.

The concrete block is there to provide a wider walkway under the bridge. The unit is in a very similar position to the photo of the previous incident.

 

[Ianno87]

You may be thinking of Ormskirk which was and still is buffer stops only, though the rails aren't physically connected.

The concrete block is there to provide a wider walkway under the bridge.

The only thing between the buffers at Ormskirk is a metal barrier to prevent "reading through" of the signal on the wrong side of the buffers.

At Kirkby, the primary purpose of the concrete block is simply to provide a walkway.

 

[507 001]

I suspect the buffer stop provision will be a significant question here. From one of the photos this is a traditional buffer stop, where modern practice would be to provide a sliding friction stop if possible (there appears to be enough length behind it). The concrete block being only half way across would appear to have pushed the train sideways and allowed it to plough through the ballast for a few more metres. This was probably better than having it stop instantly if the block had been wider and hit square on.

That particular buffer stop was put in place after the 1997 incident. Prior to that there was a rather more snazzy set up that had lights built into the beam. That one would have been fitted when the track was extended toward the bridge after the introduction of the 507s. Interestingly the Wigan side has always had a (now fairly ancient) friction block, no idea why the provision was different. I suspect the one on the ME side was temporary after the 1997 incident and nobody got round to replacing it...

Friction block on the Wigan side.

You may be thinking of Ormskirk which was and still is buffer stops only, though the rails aren't physically connected.

The concrete block is there to provide a wider walkway under the bridge. The unit is in a very similar position to the photo of the previous incident.

The only thing between the buffers at Ormskirk is a metal barrier to prevent "reading through" of the signal on the wrong side of the buffers.

At Kirkby, the primary purpose of the concrete block is simply to provide a walkway.

It appears to have been an unintentional side effect of the block being there that the train has been diverted away from the Wigan platform, which is perhaps for the best. Luckily not diverted enough as to hit the bridge though.

 

[urbophile]

BBC northwest covered the 2009 derailment at Kirkdale..

There is no local news on the main channels late on Saturday, I believe. It would surely have featured on the six o'clock bulletin if it had happened earlier.

 

[D6130]

Its amazing that 16 hours later the entire national media have completely failed to pick up on the story. The only thing they care about is the protest in Clapham.

I suspect that, had anyone been killed or seriously injured, they would have taken more notice. Fortunately, nobody was....so they didn't.

 

[Ianno87]

It appears to have been an unintentional side effect of the block being there that the train has been diverted away from the Wigan platform, which is perhaps for the best. Luckily not diverted enough as to hit the bridge though.

Although the block itself is the pedestrian walking route, so not sure putting that in the firing line is "for the best", other than what was a cheap and cheerful solution in the 1970s.

 

[Wezz]

There is no local news on the main channels late on Saturday, I believe. It would surely have featured on the six o'clock bulletin if it had happened earlier.

They've not even bothered making an article on the website

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect that, had anyone been killed or seriously injured, they would have taken more notice. Fortunately, nobody was....so they didn't.

Indeed. Hugely fortunately, this caused no more injury than a minor car crash. Those don't make the news. OK, railway incidents often do, but it's a relatively minor one (that could have been much worse). Were the unit not headed for scrap anyway, it'd probably be repaired and returned to service - the 350 that got smashed up in the tunnel near Watford was in far worse nick.

 

[Grumpy Git]

The footage from the CCTV camera mounted on the underside of the overbridge arch should make for some interesting viewing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Although the block itself is the pedestrian walking route, so not sure putting that in the firing line is "for the best", other than what was a cheap and cheerful solution in the 1970s.

I'm pretty sure the block is just there as the walkway (because the other option would have been widening the platform and slewing the track over, which would have cost a huge amount more to provide for a line which was at the time probably expected to close within 20 years or so, and also evidenced by Ormskirk not having such a block) and isn't actually intended for that purpose, it just was fortunate in having helped deflect the errant unit.

If you wanted it to deliberately deflect a unit you'd want a more triangular shaped block, FWIW.

 

[Dai Corner]

They've not even bothered making an article on the website

ITV Granada region pòsted the story at 11.46.

BBC North West haven't posted any news at all. Presumably they don't work Sunday mornings.