Destination: Watton-at-Stone

[Ediswan]

At Kings Cross this evening (Sat 24th) just after 20:00. On the departure board was a service with the destination of Watton-at-Stone, stopping at what looked like every station via Hertford North. I looked again in case it was a page x/y thing, but Watton-at-Stone was definitely destination, in large letters at the top of the screen.

That is not normal. Every service I have ever seen contimue past Hertford North always goes at least as far as Stevenage. If that section is closed, it is between Hertford North to Stevenage. Anybody know how this came to be the advertised destination ? Dodgy departure board ? Something to do with the re-signalling for ERTMS testing ?

I should have taken a photo, did not note the departure time.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I can see a 2026, and like all Watton-at-Stone trains today it ran to Stevenage. I can only assume it's advertised short so that Stevenage passengers get the faster FCC / EC services via the ECML. Similar exists at KGX with the Cambridge slows advertised as Foxton.

 

[Eagle]

Similarly the northbound Poole to Waterloo stopper is usually advertised as heading to Farnborough. (It's actually overtaken well before that, but Farnborough is the last station uniquely called at by this service.)

 

[Ediswan]

Thanks, it seems "Welcome to dumbed down Britain"

So, NR/TOCs ? are deliberately stating a destination which is short of the actual destination in order to help passengers. How could that possibly confuse anybody ! (I have been known to break a journey at Enfield Chase then carry on to Stevenage. Today I would have been seeking assistance to find out whether there were problems on the route.)

If departure boards no longer need to state the true route, why not make life even easier by putting the stations in alphabetical order ? Or maybe in order of popularity ?

 

[jopsuk]

It is not a new thing; I'm sure such things date back to BR days.

 

[transmanche]

Thanks, it seems "Welcome to dumbed down Britain"

Not at all. As noted by others this is a well-established practice to help prevent passengers inadvertently boarding an inappropriate train. It happens all over the country (e.g. York-Leeds via Harrogate trains are advertised at York as going to Burley Park).

And here's a great example: the 10:01 Mon-Fri departure from Vauxhall. It goes to Waterloo. But it doesn't take 5mins, it takes 1 hour 15 mins; as it goes via Wimbledon, Kingston, Strawberry Hill, Richmond and Putney. It makes no sense to advertise the train as going to Waterloo, so (IIRC) its advertised destination is Kingston. By the time it gets to Wimbledon, its advertised destination is (again IIRC) Strawberry Hill - and so on.

 

[telstarbox]

Happens across the network. There are plenty of examples in this thread.

 

[causton]

Thanks, it seems "Welcome to dumbed down Britain"

When you see someone at Kings Cross board the xx06 all-shacks to Cambridge rather than the xx15 non-stop Cambridge train because they didn't change the former to Foxton, you understand perfectly when they get angry!

 

[jon0844]

I have been known to break a journey at Enfield Chase then carry on to Stevenage. Today I would have been seeking assistance to find out whether there were problems on the route.)

But once you go one stop up the line, the train will be advertised as Stevenage from then on. It will almost certainly be announced as a Stevenage train, via Hertford North, by the driver.

That could actually cause some confusion as people now hear a different destination to what was advertised but it is actually pretty logical.

One compromise could be to show an additional stop on the scrolling list of stations as 'and continuing on to terminate at xxxx' but I don't think it's essential.

About the only time you might want to know about a slower train is if the faster one is likely to be rammed, or say there's bad weather or an earlier incident and you might prefer to get on a train and get moving in case the faster one is delayed/cancelled.

 

[Be3G]

Another reason for knowing about slower trains is if using First Great Western, who disallow some tickets in peak times on their fast/intercity services but not the all-station-stoppers. However, I don't know if FGW do the little ‘trick’ with the departure boards – if they do, that certainly would cause confusion for people who wish to use an off-peak ticket in peak times on a slow train.

Either way, I think the best solution is those useful ‘fastest trains to…’ boards that exist at a few major stations. Very handy.

 

[MCR247]

I'd have thought it would be good to advertise the main destination as short of the actual one, but just show it on the list of stops

 

[causton]

I'd have thought it would be good to advertise the main destination as short of the actual one, but just show it on the list of stops

That's true. I don't know if that's possible with the current software setup but that would work! Most people just read the bold destination and run for that train...!

 

[Eagle]

I notice that this is never done for LM services at Euston—I don't think they'd be very happy with their services advertised as being for Stechford or Marston Green given how much of the London to Birmingham market they command.

The general solution at Rugby, Coventry and so on for those used to be to put them as "via Northampton" services, but now on the departure boards they just explicitly state the operator (this changed when VT's moderation of competition clause expired earlier this year, also possibly in anticipation of 110mph services via Weedon).

I'd have thought it would be good to advertise the main destination as short of the actual one, but just show it on the list of stops

That's a very good idea for stopping/overtaken services, but I'm not sure it'd quite work for loop services; you'd have the fake destination appearing about in the middle of the list, and if it went to more than one page then you'd get the last page being a list of places that look backwards and/or on the wrong line.

 

[causton]

I notice that this is never done for LM services at Euston—I don't think they'd be very happy with their services advertised as being for Stechford or Marston Green given how much of the London to Birmingham market they command.

I don't think it's ever done where there could be operator-only tickets, for example an FCC Peterborough train is always advertised for Peterborough as they could have an FCC only ticket!

 

[Lrd]

Similarly the northbound Poole to Waterloo stopper is usually advertised as heading to Farnborough North. (It's actually overtaken well before that, but Farnborough North is the last station uniquely called at by this service.)

Only done as far as Southampton Airport, at Eastleigh (where it get's overtaken) and stations further up the line it's announced as Waterloo.

And it's Farnborough Main on the mainline, North is on the North Downs line.

 

[Robinson]

Only done as far as Southampton Airport, at Eastleigh (where it get's overtaken) and stations further up the line it's announced as Waterloo.

And it's Farnborough Main on the mainline, North is on the North Downs line.

At Southampton Central at least, they are all announced as going to London Waterloo. Presumably because of the Megatrain tickets which get sold for the xx55 stoppers from Poole.
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Another reason for knowing about slower trains is if using First Great Western, who disallow some tickets in peak times on their fast/intercity services but not the all-station-stoppers. However, I don't know if FGW do the little ‘trick’ with the departure boards – if they do, that certainly would cause confusion for people who wish to use an off-peak ticket in peak times on a slow train.

Either way, I think the best solution is those useful ‘fastest trains to…’ boards that exist at a few major stations. Very handy.

Last time I was at Paddington, the departure boards showed services to Twyford, with a scrolling subtext "After Twyford this service continues to Reading".

 

[Aictos]

I can see a 2026, and like all Watton-at-Stone trains today it ran to Stevenage. I can only assume it's advertised short so that Stevenage passengers get the faster FCC / EC services via the ECML. Similar exists at KGX with the Cambridge slows advertised as Foxton.

You are indeed correct, there are faster services available to Stevenage which are either the non stop East Coast services or the FCC ones which only stop at Finsbury Park then Stevenage.

Once the train in question gets to Finsbury Park it's advertised as a Stevenage via Hertford North service but strangely the return services from Stevenage are advertised as Kings Cross via Hertford North, not Finsbury Park via Hertford North as you would have expected.

I don't think there's any problem with this as I'm sure passengers would be more angry to learn they travelled on a slower service when a faster service was available then they about the slower service being advertised from Kings Cross as terminating one station short of the actual terminus.

Some passengers might not like this but it's for the greater good of the majority of passengers!

 

[route:oxford]

Last time I was at Paddington, the departure boards showed services to Twyford, with a scrolling subtext "After Twyford this service continues to Reading".

Similar with the Oxford slows - they are on the departure boards as for Radley (service continues to Oxford).

It's helpful for anyone who uses the services on a regular basis when they are arriving at Paddington with a short time to identify their service.

 

[craigwilson]

At Ashford International, the Ramsgate services round the coast (via Dover) are advertised on the boards as Sandwich, whereas the quicker trains via Canterbury are advertised to Ramsgate.

Of course once the coastal portion has left Ashford, it's advertised as Ramsgate from then on