Deutsche Bahn 'nears Arriva deal'

[HSTfan!!!]

yeah they use it on freight, but very few have received a repaint? There is certainly no new uniform for DBS crews yet either

 

[Electrostar]

To br fair it's not only enthusiasts who are interested in names and liveries. We live in a world where corporate identity is strongly guarded. If Arriva was a failing business DB would've looked into a replacement name. Instead it seems rather successful and DB want to build on that brand. It's also a lot easier to market to passengers across Europe (and the world) than Deutche Bahn.

At present everything is speculative. DB may choose to focus the Arriva name on buses while allowing rail franchises their own individual names much like Stagecoach and GoVia. Or it could brand all passenger transport services Arriva.

The freight business is different. By its nature it's probably better to have a Europe-wide name because so much freight is international and customers in many markets will be aware of DB.

Our speculation is justified because you can bet you bottom dollar that when DB announce its strategies for moving its brands forward they will be reported in the business pages of the newspapers, in design and marketing magazines as well as the railway press.

DB's decision to retain the Arriva brand is as legitimate a story than Kraft keeping the Cadbury name or Jif becoming Cif.

 

[merlodlliw]

To br fair it's not only enthusiasts who are interested in names and liveries. We live in a world where corporate identity is strongly guarded. If Arriva was a failing business DB would've looked into a replacement name. Instead it seems rather successful and DB want to build on that brand. It's also a lot easier to market to passengers across Europe (and the world) than Deutche Bahn.

At present everything is speculative. DB may choose to focus the Arriva name on buses while allowing rail franchises their own individual names much like Stagecoach and GoVia. Or it could brand all passenger transport services Arriva.

The freight business is different. By its nature it's probably better to have a Europe-wide name because so much freight is international and customers in many markets will be aware of DB.

Our speculation is justified because you can bet you bottom dollar that when DB announce its strategies for moving its brands forward they will be reported in the business pages of the newspapers, in design and marketing magazines as well as the railway press.

DB's decision to retain the Arriva brand is as legitimate a story than Kraft keeping the Cadbury name or Jif becoming Cif.

Must say the change you mention, last line Jif becoming Cif has another meaning in the UK, good job they never sold it by the dose, made me and few more smile, if you are over 50, you will know what I mean.

The brand Arriva Trains Wales will it seems remain for the next 7 years,no Company will now set about painting over all the stations like Chester where
tax payers monies as been spent on refurbish, and all the other stations it Manages both in Wales & England under the Wag franchise.

 

[TDK]

Must say the change you mention, last line Jif becoming Cif has another meaning in the UK, good job they never sold it by the dose, made me and few more smile, if you are over 50, you will know what I mean.

The brand Arriva Trains Wales will it seems remain for the next 7 years,no Company will now set about painting over all the stations like Chester where
tax payers monies as been spent on refurbish, and all the other stations it Manages both in Wales & England under the Wag franchise.

There is one other point too, Arriva Train Wales has not the best name in the business, if DB are letting it run as is any complaints from the general public with be "Bloomin Arriva, they are useless" not many of them will know it is run by DB, however if the franchise is extended then you will see a major change. I still think this is why Arriva didn't have their branding on XC as they didn't want folks to know Arriva were running it, many passengers still think XC is Virgin. If you ask 100 passengers who owned Chiltern I bet only 5% would know! This is my own opinion by the way!!!!!

 

[merlodlliw]

There is one other point too, Arriva Train Wales has not the best name in the business, if DB are letting it run as is any complaints from the general public with be "Bloomin Arriva, they are useless" not many of them will know it is run by DB, however if the franchise is extended then you will see a major change. I still think this is why Arriva didn't have their branding on XC as they didn't want folks to know Arriva were running it, many passengers still think XC is Virgin. If you ask 100 passengers who owned Chiltern I bet only 5% would know! This is my own opinion by the way!!!!!

Yes few know whom owns what, ATW I agree does not have a good name with the public up here or its staff, mores the pity, if the franchise is given to DB
after the remaining 7 years, yes change will come, the madcap idea of no growth for 15 years is gone forever. But poor staff moral & low customer happiness at ATW will have to be sorted out by whoever ruins Cardiff HQ in the future.

 

[anthony263]

I think a change of name and brand for arriva trains wales would be good.

As for improving the business, whoever takes the franchise will have spend money ordering new trains for the Cardiff Valley lines.

Does anyone know the exact number of pacers ATW have? because once they are replaced then my some of the class 150's could be cascaded to boost capcity elsewhre

 

[Drsatan]

I think a change of name and brand for arriva trains wales would be good.

As for improving the business, whoever takes the franchise will have spend money ordering new trains for the Cardiff Valley lines.

Does anyone know the exact number of pacers ATW have? because once they are replaced then my some of the class 150's could be cascaded to boost capcity elsewhre

According to Wikipedia ATW has 15 class 142s and 15 class 143s, but take those figures with a pinch of salt since Wikipedia is not an authoritative source on these matters.

Since the franchise will expire in 2018 I don't think DB will be willing to pay for new Valley Lines trains since DB wouldn't get a good financial return on new rolling stock in just eight years (even if replacements were ordered tomorrow it would take two-three years for the first new units to enter service).

As for cascading the 142s and 143s, I don't think FGW or Northern would be prepared to swap any of their 150s for yet more Pacers; when ex-Northern 142s were introduced on Devon Metro services in December 2007 there was a right uproar.

Anyway, the GWML to Cardiff should be electrified by then (assuming the Tories don't cancel the project), so electrifying the Valley Lines would make sense. Then ATW's pacers could finally go to the scrapyard when they're replaced by EMUs!

 

[tbtc]

As for cascading the 142s and 143s, I don't think FGW or Northern would be prepared to swap any of their 150s for yet more Pacers; when ex-Northern 142s were introduced on Devon Metro services in December 2007 there was a right uproar

We're meant to be getting those Pacers back, when FGW get 150s instead.

The future ATW fleet needs three classes of train:

1. Valley Lines (& Ebbw Vale - Newport) - 75mph high density DMU/ EMU (if electrified) with short dwelling time and good braking/ accelerating

2. Something low spec for the Heart of Wales/ Blaenau/ Fishguard lines (where the passenger loads don't justify much investment)

3. Cardiff - Manchester, Cardiff - Holyhead, Holyhead - Manchester, Birmingham - Aberystwyth - 90/100 mph stock suited to middle/ long distance

I can't see any of this being "new" stock though

 

[The Planner]

1. You need the valleys juiced up so 319s.
2. 150s...
3. 158s, 175s...

 

[anthony263]

i agree fishgaurd Hbr/Pembroke Dock & Heart of wales should be worked by class 150's as well as the Blaenau Festineog - Llandudno service. I suspect that DB will bid for the wles franchise when it comes up for re-neweal in 2018 so if they do get it then they maybe willing to invest in new rolling stock.

As for electrifiying the valley lines, studies have said that it would cost £250 million and it suspect the WAG may decide to provide some funding.

 

[steve099]

Since the franchise will expire in 2018 I don't think DB will be willing to pay for new Valley Lines trains since DB wouldn't get a good financial return on new rolling stock in just eight years (even if replacements were ordered tomorrow it would take two-three years for the first new units to enter service).

I was under the impression present franchisees have had their franchises renewed before their expiry? Chiltern, for example? Or has this only occured when such clauses were already existant in contracts?

 

[WatcherZero]

Sometimes theirs guarenteed extensions if certain performance criteria are met, most of the time however its at the discretion of the Dft to extend a well performing franchise within a max timeframe specified in the franchise contract. Call it performance related bonuses.

 

[TDK]

I was under the impression present franchisees have had their franchises renewed before their expiry? Chiltern, for example? Or has this only occured when such clauses were already existant in contracts?

Chiltern didn't get it's franchise extended or renewed, the original franchise agreement was on hold until Chiltern made a grand effore with EG3 then the original franchise agreement was honoured, Dft propaganda

 

[merlodlliw]

i agree fishgaurd Hbr/Pembroke Dock & Heart of wales should be worked by class 150's as well as the Blaenau Festineog - Llandudno service. I suspect that DB will bid for the wles franchise when it comes up for re-neweal in 2018 so if they do get it then they maybe willing to invest in new rolling stock.

As for electrifiying the valley lines, studies have said that it would cost £250 million and it suspect the WAG may decide to provide some funding.

and don't forget the Borderland line now using 150s, some banter on 3rd rail
into Liverpool which makes sense, but too high cost now.

m