Did you know how to have wider fields of view?

[reschanger]

Hi there, probably this isn't new, but I wanted to point it out anyway in case it actually is.

BVE has a static FOV (field of view), means, the horizontal viewing angle is always the same, e.g. you can look 60° or something ahead. I don't know the exact value. We know that we can't look around in our cab like in MSTS (in 3D), but there is a way to look more to the left and to the right (wider FOV). That means that for example with the Class 323 cab (I used that as an example), you could look through the cab window to your left at 9 o'clock (I hope cl323 has a window to your left) and through a door to your right (many japanese trains have that in the center of their front). I just imagined.

I modified a cl323 to experiment with wider FOV. See the attachment jpeg of what it looks like when it's normal, then see how you can scroll farther to the left and right of what's currently possible and see new stuff there and then see a zoomed out view to give an impression of what the cab image has to look like and to compare the FOV. Is that new or old school?

If new, the trick is simple. In the panel2.cfg of BVE 4 trains you usually specifiy something like this:

[This]
Resolution = 512
Left = 0
Top = 0
Right = 1024
Bottom = 768

Now if the actual cab image is 1024x1024 (which is currently standard I guess) and you still specify 512 as resolution here, BVE will assign the 512 pixels to its standard FOV, but as the image is actually larger, it will be centered on screen. If we still allow to scroll from 0 (Left) to 1024 (Right) measured in cab image coordinates, we can have a wider FOV because the centered 512 pixels would be 256 to 768 in cab image coordinates. Of course this assumes that the cab image is accordingly modified to include the wider FOV. I just reduced the original image to 512x512 and then painted something around to give an "artistic impression".

If new, then this allows us to have a wider view in our cockpit while the standard FOV still lets the view be the same than before. You could just scroll farther to your left or right to see new scenery or track, or as in the attachment, zoom out (which of course looks weird but BVE still lets you). - Oh and by the way I used my reschanger tool just in case you wonder why the screenshot resolutions are non-standard.

So, old or new? Answer appreciated.

Edit: Now you can download a demonstration. Follow the instructions on how a few posts below.

 

[5872]

Hi there, probably this isn't new, but I wanted to point it out anyway in case it actually is.

BVE has a static FOV (field of view), means, the horizontal viewing angle is always the same, e.g. you can look 60° or something ahead. I don't know the exact value. We know that we can't look around in our cab like in MSTS (in 3D), but there is a way to look more to the left and to the right (wider FOV). That means that for example with the Class 323 cab (I used that as an example), you could look through the cab window to your left at 9 o'clock (I hope cl323 has a window to your left) and through a door to your right (many japanese trains have that in the center of their front). I just imagined.

I modified a cl323 to experiment with wider FOV. See the attachment jpeg #1 of what it looks like when it's normal, then imagine you scroll farther to the left and right of what's currently possible and see new stuff there and then see attachment #2 of a zoomed out view to give an impression of what the cab image has to look like and to compare the FOV. I didn't have the time to reposition the cab controls accordingly, so they are floating around somewhere. Still, is that new or old school?

If new, the trick is simple. In the panel2.cfg of BVE 4 trains you usually specifiy something like this:

[This]
Resolution = 512
Left = 0
Top = 0
Right = 1024
Bottom = 768

Now if the actual cab image is 1024x1024 (which is currently standard I guess) and you still specify 512 as resolution here, BVE will assign the 512 pixels to its standard FOV, but as the image is actually larger, it will be centered on screen. If we still allow to scroll from 0 (Left) to 1024 (Right) measured in cab image coordinates, we can have a wider FOV because the centered 512 pixels would be 256 to 768 in cab image coordinates. Of course this assumes that the cab image is accordingly modified to include the wider FOV. I just reduced the original image to 512x512 and then painted something around to give an "artistic impression".

If new, then this allows us to have a wider view in our cockpit while the standard FOV still lets the view be the same than before. You could just scroll farther to your left or right to see new scenery or track, or as in attachment #2, zoom out (which of course looks weird but BVE still lets you). - Oh and by the way I used my reschanger tool just in case you wonder why the screenshot resolutions are non-standard.

So, old or new? Answer appreciated.

Wo that looks so much better.

 

[466.networkers]

It looks like a proper view from a real 323.
Well done!

 

[nath9425]

Interesting....This program has really developed over the past few days! I think the 'Technical' Guys should have ago at this.

 

[reschanger]

Well ya, the only thing obvious from the zoomed out picture is that BVE has its background sky not painted to what the vertical angle in my test cab allowed, so there is a black bar at the top instead of the sky, as in mackoy's Track Viewer.

If cab creators are interested to experiment around, make sure that the vertical angle is limited to where the sky shows up by limiting the Top and Bottom in the panel2.cfg. Also, it might be good to make a cab image of 2048x2048, so that the center portion (1024x1024) is still of the same detail as we are used to it.

Also, this still doesn't allow us to actually look left (9 o'clock) or right (3 o'clock). Imagine you are looking at a poster at a wall in front of you and the poster will now be wider. It still wouldn't be a 180° view but always less, because that poster (viewing window) is still in front of you, not to your sides.

Still, the feeling of also looking left and right and actually seeing more should be a new experience should train developers decide to work on that. As you can see from my attachment images (first post), I'm obviously not one (or none whose results you'd like to watch).

 

[Coxster]

The 1995 stock tube train from Train Sim Central allows you to see out of the left window so you can line-up with the Northern Line stop markers easier

 

[reschanger]

The 1995 stock tube train from Train Sim Central allows you to see out of the left window so you can line-up with the Northern Line stop markers easier

You're right. There is a window there and you can also see the driver's seat, so you could say the cab image itself employs a higher FOV than usual, because you usually only see the front window in cab images.

But: The track you see outside of the cab window will still have the same FOV. The technique I described actually allows to have a wider viewing angle into the scenery. That's not the same. Imagine your monitor in front of you acts like a window through which you can see the scenery. Now if that window was wider, you could also see the trees, buildings, etc. that previously were outside of your viewing frustum. That's what's Field Of View (FOV) is about.

And that 1995 stock (I downloaded and examined it) does not apply a wider FOV than other trains, just draws another image on screen. I hope you got the idea.

Besides: I would like to post a drivable "technical demonstration", so you can see and feel the difference, because believe me, it's a big one. But I need a train author first whose train I can modify and who would host that demo, at short notice. Want to have that available in less than 24 hours. Any volunteers, please notify me.

 

[reschanger]

Ok, I guess I'm a little too fast paced now, so let's do that a different way.

I updated my imagination of the Class 323 a little further, but as I was not able to get in contact with the authors, I won't post it here because of that copyright fetishism thing. Although it's just a "technical preview" and nothing more.

Still, the driving experience is rather different from what we usually know. Here is one last image of what it currently looks like and remember, the FOV into the scenery is really wider, it's not just the cab image (which by the way now has a floor and ceiling and is in 2048x2048 to retain the details of the original).

If you're interested, PM me. You should really try this out to get to know how that feels like to drive in wide angle mode.

 

[reschanger]

So here it is - the demonstration train for you to drive

With the kind support of trainsimcentral you can now download a drivable demonstration that should allow you to get the "feeling" of the wide FOV cab. I guess that some of you don't really get the idea from geeky words and static screenshot. I myself wouldn't and also I had to see it in action. Remember that this is only a demonstration of the technique only, not a replacement for the actual train we are going to use.

So, here is what has to be done. Open http://www.trainsimcentral.co.uk/downloads/cl323widefov.zip. You will most likely get an error message saying "Access denied". Copy the address from the address bar into the clipboard. Open just http://www.trainsimcentral.co.uk and then insert the longer address back into the address bar. This seems to be necessary, because trainsimcentral doesn't like hotlinking, but we can't currently download it from its menus either.

Once downloaded, the zip file includes only the modifications I made, so you will have to have a Class 323 cab installed, which you can also download from trainsimcentral should you not already have it.

You might want to create a backup of your Class 323. Unzip the zip file and replace the cl323 folder inside your BVE trains folder. You can restore your backup later or download the original train from trainsimcentral at any time.

Now you can open any route that uses the Class 323, preferrably the X-City South route.

I suggest you do the following in order to maximize your viewing experience:

1) Open the route from within BVE and do not touch the camera controls (numpad keys) yet. The view you start in will be closely that of the standard Class 323 (maybe a little vertically offset).

2) Get your train going and get used to the standard field of view in front of you. Once the train is moving you might now want to explore the scenery to your left/right by using the 4 and 6 keys on the numpad. Utilize also the 8 and 2 keys to scroll up and down, but do not touch the zoom out (0 key) yet. Take especially a look at roads under bridges, passing buildings, stations, signs and the like, and later on passing trains.

3) Drive at least to the next station while getting used to the looking around. After a while, when you got used to the standard field of view, try to zoom out using the 0 key on the numpad. I ask you to do that only after you already spend some time driving, so you will see the difference between standard FOV and wide angle FOV more clearly.

Good luck trying that out for yourself and let me know what you think about this technique.

PS: I myself find it most interesting to stick to the standard FOV (reset using the 5 key on the numpad if you need to) and just looking around to watch more of the scenery from time to time. Passing trains look great when watched, also looking at the adjacent and opposing stations. The zoomed out view is nice, but I guess I wouldn't drive that way. The looking-around is what I find the most interesting about it.

 

[eifion]

Tried the link with the 323widefov and got: Error 404 Page Not Found

 

[tubenutter]

read the post, perhaps?

 

[Nelson]

Hi, I just joined the forum. I love BVE4, it's come a long way since the hand drawn cabs and dodgy graphics of BVE2 and is now very impressive. I actually prefer this now to MSTS, and KRS, although that's heading in the right direction apart from the motion effects ( big let-down).
Along with BVE4's great sounds, motion effects and realistic driving experience we now have people experimenting on FOV which to my mind is the next logical step forward for this great sim. I have downloaded the experimental Cl323 cab and I think it's a clever idea and should be worked on. It was great just to be able to look elsewhere than just forward, especially on the Birmingham Southv1.3 route with the high detail, coming into New Street station was a treat being able to see the trains on other platforms.
The only criticism, which I'm sure can be worked around, is the wipers. With the new "full" view of the windscreen the top half of the wiper disappears where the origional top of the screen used to be which looks very odd, maybe the FOV should be limited to where the wiper disappears?
Dave