Diesel assisted Steam tour?

[Gnasher11]

Hi All,

Was planning on joining this trip at the weekend,

Railway Touring Company - The West Somerset Steam Express - Union of South Africa

But when I called to enquire I was informed that the Diesel will be situated directly behind the Steam Loco to assist due to the high fire risk caused by the hot weather..

How does this help with the fire risk? Does it mean that the Steam engine doesn't have to work so hard? Or will someone be manning it with a Fire Hose at the ready? (Joke)

I know that there is usually a Diesel unit at the rear of the train, for the many reasons that have already been discussed in other threads, but part of the enjoyment for me is to hear the Steam engine being worked hard and I fear that this wont be the case this time.

 

[matt]

Correct the diesel will do the majority of the work with the steam on the front not doing much. If you want to hear steam working hard I suggest you wait and book a tour when the current dry weather has ended.

 

[Bertie the bus]

You are almost certainly correct, the steam engine will not be working hard but in light steam with the diesel doing most of the work. Not that surprising considering the lack of rain and the heat.

 

[Adsy125]

If you want to hear a steam engine working hard your best bet is to go on a WSR service, which are still running steam hauled.

EDIT: I've seen its likely to have 6960 on the WSR, if the diesel is left with 60009 then you will get to hear a steam engine working hard.

 

[Cowley]

If you want to hear a steam engine working hard your best bet is to go on a WSR service, which are still running steam hauled.

EDIT: I've seen its likely to have 6960 on the WSR, if the diesel is left with 60009 then you will get to hear a steam engine working hard.

I would imagine that even steam on preserved lines will be being worked as gently as possible at the moment due to the risk of throwing sparks.
It seemed to be the case recently on trip to the G&WSR with other forum members where the GWR 2-8-0 was being worked quite gently.

 

[Adsy125]

I would imagine that even steam on preserved lines will be being worked as gently as possible at the moment due to the risk of throwing sparks.
It seemed to be the case recently on trip to the G&WSR with other forum members where the GWR 2-8-0 was being worked quite gently.

I went behind 6960 last week and while it was being worked gently in places, on some of the climbs that was clearly not the case! I imagine with rail your loads of >10 it will have to work hard, especially up some of the climbs.

 

[tiptoptaff]

I would imagine that even steam on preserved lines will be being worked as gently as possible at the moment due to the risk of throwing sparks.
It seemed to be the case recently on trip to the G&WSR with other forum members where the GWR 2-8-0 was being worked quite gently.

We are quite lucky that we have not had a major lineside fire yet and we have been able to keep running a full steam service throughout. We have a good procedure in place to do our best to minimise the risk. The GWSR is a fairly flat railway and it can be worked lightly. Can't get away with that starting way from Stogumber at 1in68.

I'd be surprised if 6960 was used and not either the S160 or 7F, both of which would need to be worked considerably less hard than the hall.

 

[thejuggler]

KWVR were running 41241 today with 5 carriages.

First trip to Oxenhope, lots of slipping at Keighley, then news a fire had started near Damems resulting in one carriage being removed at Oxenhope to allow lighter running.

 

[Macwomble]

Not sure what the situation on the NYMR is at present but it's been known in the past for the line to run diesel only between Levisham & Goathland when there's a high fire risk.

 

[E759]

Isle of Wight Steam Railway running at reduced speed yesterday 25/7/2018 resulting in 10-15 min delays on all journeys. No Delay Repay scheme in operation but there was a considerable reduction of in soot in hair! Freshwater and 41313 in operation.

 

[matt]

Not sure what the situation on the NYMR is at present but it's been known in the past for the line to run diesel only between Levisham & Goathland when there's a high fire risk.

Still steam but mostly diesel assisted.

 

[fireftrm]

Not sure what the situation on the NYMR is at present but it's been known in the past for the line to run diesel only between Levisham & Goathland when there's a high fire risk.

Top and tail steam and diesel with steam 'light steam' between stations and the 'dryness' factor fire risk is at the most severe it has been since records began (70s)

 

[kje7812]

The SVR is back to all steam after a couple of weeks of all diesel operation. There has been a bit rain and crews are taking it easy to help reduce the fire risk.

 

[Crawley Ben]

Hi All,

Was planning on joining this trip at the weekend,

Railway Touring Company - The West Somerset Steam Express - Union of South Africa

But when I called to enquire I was informed that the Diesel will be situated directly behind the Steam Loco to assist due to the high fire risk caused by the hot weather..

How does this help with the fire risk? Does it mean that the Steam engine doesn't have to work so hard? Or will someone be manning it with a Fire Hose at the ready? (Joke)

I know that there is usually a Diesel unit at the rear of the train, for the many reasons that have already been discussed in other threads, but part of the enjoyment for me is to hear the Steam engine being worked hard and I fear that this wont be the case this time.

TBH I'm amazed a full blanket ban hasn't been placed on mainline steam movements bearing in mind how bad the heat is etc. Can't imagine driving a steam loco in these conditions wil be much fun for the footplate crew either. The heat from the fire in the cab must surely be pretty uncomfortable I would have thought?

Hope the OP enjoys their trip, I'm sure it won't be as bad as you think even with the diesel.

Cheers

Ben

 

[Shenandoah]

KVWR in 2018

 

[gwr4090]

TBH I'm amazed a full blanket ban hasn't been placed on mainline steam movements bearing in mind how bad the heat is etc. Can't imagine driving a steam loco in these conditions wil be much fun for the footplate crew either. The heat from the fire in the cab must surely be pretty uncomfortable I would have thought?

Hope the OP enjoys their trip, I'm sure it won't be as bad as you think even with the diesel.

Cheers

Ben

I am told that A4s and Bulleid Pacifics are particularly uncomfortable for the footplate crew in hot weather. Open back cabs are much preferred ! The A4 will not be used much on the mainline apart from moccasionally blowing the whistle and looking after the braking.

 

[VEP3417]

spotted earlier - i wondered the same question

 

[EbbwJunction1]

The Vale of Rheidol Railway didn't operate for around a fortnight earlier this month due to fires in the Rheidol Valley.

I travelled on the first train out of Aberystwyth on the morning of their resumption, and we passed a very burnt out area up towards Devil's Bridge. It looked as if for the most part the railway provided a fire break, as the burnt area was to the higher ground above the railway, whereas the area lower down wasn't burnt.

Despite the okay for the trains to run being given, the train was still accompanied by a diesel loco pushing or pulling a large water bowser just in case.

 

[The Box Photter]

Went on "The Hadrian" from Leicester to Carlisle via Settle & Carlisle Line on Saturday. We were "hauled" by Merchant Navy "British India Line" from Hellifield to Carlisle, Carlisle to Newcastle & Newcastle to York.

The diesel assistance was in the form of a WCR Class 37 between the MN and the train, which pretty much did all the work and provided some pretty good thrash for any diesel haulage fans in the front coaches. Unfortunately, this drowned out any authentic noises coming from the steam loco and for me took away a lot of the pleasure of the trip. We didn't know it was going to be a Merchant Navy pacific when we booked the trip and it turns out that it was the first ever haulage by one of those locos over the Tyne Valley Line, except British India Line seemed to be as much of a passenger on the journey as we were.

Ironically, the countryside we were passing through didn't appear to be as parched as has been made out and we were rained on quite heavily on the way back from Newcastle to York. There was also good evidence of the torrential rain that had fallen the previous day and night.

So, if all you want is a nice big kettle up front with the occasional whistle and wisp of steam, diesel assistance is fine. If you want to be hauled by a steam loco on the main line, pray for a traditional wet British summer! Or save your money if it's been hot.

 

[Gnasher11]

Very eloquently put, and much describes my experience on the Paddington to Minehead run on Sunday, you could tell that Union of South Africa was not working very hard as we skipped one of the scheduled water stops both there and back...

Got to Minehead with only 40 minutes instead of the up to 2 hours advertised, but to be honest, that was long enough for me.

As I was travelling in standard class I was right at the back of the train on the way out, on the way back a lot closer to the Loco, but the Diesel lead the way.
The WSR section was better from a Steam point of view, although slower, as Ravenham Hall was working hard.

It was fun 'not' leaning our of the window during the torrential downpours that we went through (as that would be dangerous).

But overall it did seam like a very watered down experience. If I've managed any decent pictures I'll post them later.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I guess when the option is to run the tours with just diesels, or to push a steam engine around for a while, the latter is at least more interesting.

When clean air acts ban the use of coal, might be all we can get - an A4 being pushed by a diesel, with a vapour generator in the chimney for a smoke effect....

 

[Cowley]

I guess when the option is to run the tours with just diesels, or to push a steam engine around for a while, the latter is at least more interesting.

When clean air acts ban the use of coal, might be all we can get - an A4 being pushed by a diesel, with a vapour generator in the chimney for a smoke effect....

Oh god Tim. You made me shudder with that thought...

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I guess when the option is to run the tours with just diesels, or to push a steam engine around for a while, the latter is at least more interesting.

When clean air acts ban the use of coal, might be all we can get - an A4 being pushed by a diesel, with a vapour generator in the chimney for a smoke effect....

If that remark is meant to be serious then the effect on heritage lines would be far worse than any consideration of main-line running.

 

[broadgage]

When heavy rain falls just before a long planned steam charter, I wonder if last minute permission could be given for the steamer to work harder, and do all or most of the work.
I can see the need for restrictions in time of drought, due to the fire risk, but it does look daft for the diesel to be doing most of the work during or shortly after a thunderstorm !

 

[The Box Photter]

I'm trying hard to see both sides of the coin here. On the one hand, I understand the damage that could be caused by sparks igniting tinder dry vegetation, especially fields of wheat etc. but on the other hand, if NR maintained the lineside properly and kept the vegetation in check, any damage would be slight. There are of course different pressures at work on preserved lines run mainly by volunteers. They just don't have the available personnel to cut back the undergrowth. On Saturday, there was certainly a very low risk of fire as we ploughed southwards on the ECML through rain squall after rain squall.

But, and it's a big but, there was no indication or even suggestion of a reduction in the ticket price, once it was known that the main attraction of the journey was going to be playing second fiddle to 12 cylinders of English Electric's finest work. Given that the possibility of "diesel assistance" wasn't mentioned in the original advertisement for the tour, or in the booking process and the fact that the tickets were purchased by credit card and cost over £100, there's a potential case to be made for a claim under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for either "misrepresentation" or "breach of contract".

When is a steam hauled train not a steam hauled train?

 

[broadgage]

I bet that somewhere in the small print of the charter operators publicity material there will be a clause along the lines of
"unforeseen events, including but not limited to, weather conditions, industrial disputes, mechanical failure, or network rail requirements, may require the use of a different locomotive, or a different type of locomotive to that planned"

 

[aar0]

When heavy rain falls just before a long planned steam charter, I wonder if last minute permission could be given for the steamer to work harder, and do all or most of the work.

The current drought has been so long that it will take several days' worth of rain to dampen down the ground properly - until then it remains a tinderbox, albeit a moist.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Wouldn't a diesel have better traction in such conditions?

 

[The Box Photter]

I bet that somewhere in the small print of the charter operators publicity material there will be a clause along the lines of
"unforeseen events, including but not limited to, weather conditions, industrial disputes, mechanical failure, or network rail requirements, may require the use of a different locomotive, or a different type of locomotive to that planned"

You're probably correct. It would be commercially naive for a business to leave itself exposed to such claims. I wasn't planning on making a claim against the operator but I thought I'd open up the debate a bit.

I'm sure the diesel would have offered better adhesion than a 4-6-2 steam loco in the squally conditions.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

The fires that I referred to above were going for quite a few days, even weeks before they were finally put out.

I haven't been able to find any information on their cause, but it doesn't seem as if the railway's services were to blame. However, as soon as the fires started to spread, the services were suspended; they even terminated a train at Devil's Bridge and brought everyone back by road.

I don't think that they've had any further problems, as the railway services seem to be running normally now.