Different rail stations but sharing the same platform?

[etr221]

When York Road and the northbound suburban platform were in use, did GN or Midland or both trains also stop at what later became Kings Cross Thameslink? I believe this started out as a four-platform station but the Underground stopped calling when the current platforms further west were opened in around 1940.

King's Cross Thameslink was originally the Metropolitan Railway's King's Cross station (known as King's Cross Met), originally 2 platforms, until 2 more added for the 'Widened Lines' in 1868. Under the LPTB, the new platforms for their services were built further west, integrated into the Underground station, replacing use of the King's Cross Met station. But post war King's Cross Met reopened for LMSR and LNER trains through to Moorgate via the Widened Lines (had been suspended due to bomb damage).

My understanding is that trains to/from Midland always stopped at King's Cross Met; trains to/from the GN not always - in 1947 up trains did (after also calling at York Road (King's Cross) - as it was in the timetable), but down trains did not - I suspect it varied over the years.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Sorry to take issue with Dr Hoo, but ... this plan seems to suggest the presence of a Booking Office (B.O.) at King's Cross York Road Station:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/127688-kings-cross-york-road-suburban-platforms/page/3/

Other photos found by 'Googling' seem to show benches on the platform (which would be unnecessary if the station/platform were 'set down only'), and people boarding a train as others alight

The situation regarding whether York Road was 'set down only' isn't easy to establish because the local London Eastern Region timetables didn't always appear in the main 'Regional' book. Instead it was necessary to purchase separate volumes for the Great Northern (GN)and Liverpool Street/Fenchurch Street, by post if you weren't in London. Taking the May 1968 GN timetable as an example I attach a photograph of an extract clearly showing York Road (and King's Cross (Met)) as 'set down only'. Some years didn't show this but I presume that it was a production error given the small scale of the print run.

I am not aware that BO is a regular Ordnance Survey abbreviation for a Booking Office, it isn't in the common list and absent from most 1:2500 portrayals of stations.

I am only commenting in respect of my own lifetime and experience.

 

[Taunton]

In the same era, when I used KX main station from time to time, I remember wondering if it was possible to buy a BR ticket (probably Edmondson-style) from York Road to Farringdon, Barbican or Moorgate? And whether you could book First Class if you were so inclined?

Five decades later, photo evidence & @Dr Hoo's post suggest there was no ticket office at York Road - although could you technically still buy one from the main King's Cross booking office? And historic timetables seem to imply Widened Lines trains were Second Class Only.

The Moorgate trains were inner suburban, within the London Travel Area, which was slightly larger all round than the current GLA area. All services wholly within this area had First Class cancelled in 1939 on outbreak of WW2, and it never came back.

However, it might still have been possible to get such a ticket. John Betjeman wrote that in the mid-1950s he bought a First ticket from South Hampstead to Primrose Hill, his local stations, on the DC Line which was one such route. It came out still printed L&NWR, having presumably been in the ticket rack for more than 30 years.

 

[Oxfordblues]

"Manchester" Exchange was in fact in Salford and Victoria is in Manchester so for the price of a platform ticket you could make an inter-city journey simply by walking along Platform 11.

 

[Helvellyn]

Maybe stretching the thread but I don't think station mergers have been touched on.

London Victoria was two stations side by side - I think it was BR that eventually knocked through the concourse dividing wall to link up the two stations, but the platforms I believe are still physically separated (7 being highest number in the Southeastern side and 8 the lowest in the Southern side).

Charing Cross underground is another interesting one, originally being Strand (Northern Line) and Trafalgar Square (Bakerloo Line) but merged into one station complex ahead of the arrival of the Jubilee Line. The original Charing Cross Underground station is now known as Embankment, and the 'other' Strand Underground station is the now closed Aldwych on the stub of the Piccadilly Line from Holborn!

 

[Rescars]

Maybe stretching the thread but I don't think station mergers have been touched on.

London Victoria was two stations side by side - I think it was BR that eventually knocked through the concourse dividing wall to link up the two stations, but the platforms I believe are still physically separated (7 being highest number in the Southeastern side and 8 the lowest in the Southern side).

The LBSC and SECR parts of London Bridge were equally separate once upon a time. LBSC was a terminus and SECR a through station to Cannon Street and Charing Cross (via Waterloo East - which has never been quite the same as Waterloo LSWR).

 

[etr221]

The situation regarding whether York Road was 'set down only' isn't easy to establish because the local London Eastern Region timetables didn't always appear in the main 'Regional' book. Instead it was necessary to purchase separate volumes for the Great Northern (GN)and Liverpool Street/Fenchurch Street, by post if you weren't in London. Taking the May 1968 GN timetable as an example I attach a photograph of an extract clearly showing York Road (and King's Cross (Met)) as 'set down only'. Some years didn't show this but I presume that it was a production error given the small scale of the print run.

Looking at other (earlier) timetables, while only arrival times tended to be shown for York Road, there is nothing to say trains were 'set down only', or that the station was such, so my interpretation is that travelling from there was possible ... how many people did so is another matter.

 

[BrianW]

The situation regarding whether York Road was 'set down only' isn't easy to establish because the local London Eastern Region timetables didn't always appear in the main 'Regional' book. Instead it was necessary to purchase separate volumes for the Great Northern (GN)and Liverpool Street/Fenchurch Street, by post if you weren't in London. Taking the May 1968 GN timetable as an example I attach a photograph of an extract clearly showing York Road (and King's Cross (Met)) as 'set down only'. Some years didn't show this but I presume that it was a production error given the small scale of the print run.

I am not aware that BO is a regular Ordnance Survey abbreviation for a Booking Office, it isn't in the common list and absent from most 1:2500 portrayals of stations.

I am only commenting in respect of my own lifetime and experience.

I think I've probably reached the extent of my knowledge/ experience/ documents/ memory ...

I have a copy of an October 1968 'ABC Railway Guide' (not of course definitive like a BR timetable should be; designed to be used by secretarial staff booking trains for 'the boss'). It shows at Table 100 suburban trains heading to (and from) Moorgate. These were Weekday peak hours and 2nd Class only. Inbound they would call at York Rd., King's X and King's X St.Pancras before Farringdon, Aldersgate and Moorgate, having started at a variety of places including WGC, Potters Bar and Hertford North and with varying stopping patterns. The table makes no indication of 'calls only to set down passengers' for which D would be indicated. Outbound trains served Moorgate, Aldersgate and Farringdon thence King's Cross enroute north.

Table 95 of the ABC guide shows a handful of trains headed to/from Moorgate- Luton Midland Rd., M-F only, calling Moorgate, Aldersgate, Farringdon and King's Cross Met in both directions, thence Kentish Town etc.

Perhaps an old photo or station plan may be more informative regarding entrance and ticketing arrangements. 'D.C.I.' Wood booking off

The Moorgate trains were inner suburban, within the London Travel Area, which was slightly larger all round than the current GLA area. All services wholly within this area had First Class cancelled in 1939 on outbreak of WW2, and it never came back.

However, it might still have been possible to get such a ticket. John Betjeman wrote that in the mid-1950s he bought a First ticket from South Hampstead to Primrose Hill, his local stations, on the DC Line which was one such route. It came out still printed L&NWR, having presumably been in the ticket rack for more than 30 years.

King's Cross Thameslink was originally the Metropolitan Railway's King's Cross station (known as King's Cross Met), originally 2 platforms, until 2 more added for the 'Widened Lines' in 1868. Under the LPTB, the new platforms for their services were built further west, integrated into the Underground station, replacing use of the King's Cross Met station. But post war King's Cross Met reopened for LMSR and LNER trains through to Moorgate via the Widened Lines (had been suspended due to bomb damage).

My understanding is that trains to/from Midland always stopped at King's Cross Met; trains to/from the GN not always - in 1947 up trains did (after also calling at York Road (King's Cross) - as it was in the timetable), but down trains did not - I suspect it varied over the years.

 

[Taunton]

Our discussion seems to have varied again to "Stations with platforms all over the place"

An apparent 1976 video shows an outbound GN Widened Lines train, headed by a Class 31, stopping at the old Kings Cross Met platform but then going straight through the platform on the steeply graded Hotel Curve alongside the Suburban station

while another link shows a train stopping at the Suburban station platform

Kings Cross Widened Lines

My only recollection is earlier, about 1963, being at Kings Cross and seeing a Class 31 come up from the Widened Lines and into Gasworks Tunnel at absolutely full throttle.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Maybe stretching the thread but I don't think station mergers have been touched on.

London Victoria was two stations side by side - I think it was BR that eventually knocked through the concourse dividing wall to link up the two stations, but the platforms I believe are still physically separated (7 being highest number in the Southeastern side and 8 the lowest in the Southern side).

Currently a Southern train from the High Level route via Battersea Park can access platforms 7 and 8 at Victoria. 8 is rare but not unknown in disruption; 7 is very rare. Otherwise access from the Clapham Jct direction requires use of the Stewart’s Lane low level lines. South Eastern trains can’t reach platform 9 at Victoria (and for many years there were Networker X signs as well) unless they also use the Stewart’s Lane low level lines and even then would not be able to serve platforms 16-19.

 

[Ianigsy]

An example from Paris - the former Martin Nadaud metro station was subsumed into Gambetta and the platforms are now part of the passageway leading alongside the tracks to the platforms which are in use.

 

[izvor]

An apparent 1976 video shows an outbound GN Widened Lines train, headed by a Class 31, stopping at the old Kings Cross Met platform but then going straight through the platform on the steeply graded Hotel Curve alongside the Suburban station

My memory of the time is actually the reverse - the up GN trains called at both York Road and Kings Cross (Metropolitan) but down trains only at the Hotel Curve platform in Kings Cross itself - maybe to get a bit of a run at the Hotel Curve incline? So only the Midland line trains called at Kings Cross (Met) w/b platform.

I remember waiting on the Hotel Curve platform (was #14 but it got renumbered). You could hear the class 31 graunching up the incline a long time before it appeared. From the increasing noise you expected it to burst out of the tunnel at speed but of course it was not going at much more than walking pace when it emerged, still on full throttle as the platform was still on the steep incline. Quite an experience.

I posted about boarding a train at York Road on this thread.

 

[frankmoh]

Birkbeck station is split down the middle between Southern and Tramlink.

Given how many times I've been on a train that blasts right through it, you'd think Southern just wants you to go on the tram to get to Beckenham Junction instead of using their own service.