Digital Fraud Team email.

[Haywain]

How do train companies prove that you did use them?

They present evidence to the court that you have been caught using one such ticket and have bought a number of others. They can then ask you a number of questions to establish why the tickets were purchased and whether you made the journeys in question. As you will not have any evidence to refute what those questions will suggest, I would suggest it will be easier than @Hadders is suggesting. However, you don't want to go to court and the train company want the money that you should have paid so what could happen in court is all rather hypothetical.

 

[LolitaEx45]

My dilemma is, I'm keen to start up communication with these lot but I'm not entirely sure how I do that without incriminating myself, seeing as you think this is the purpose of the email.
Ignoring the email and waiting for a letter might imply I'm playing cat and mouse and unwilling to co-operate

Hi, so I'm keen to get the ball rolling on this, I'd rather be proactive than reactive. Would my email be admitting to not possessing the Railcard followed by an apology, what I've learned from the incident, that if possible could we settle the matter out of court and offer to pay any administrative costs.

 

[notmyrealname]

That sounds like a good start. If you post up what you're thinking of sending, people here are normally happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Hadders]

Why would that not be a realistic proposition?

It's often said on here that a rail company can cancel a Penalty Fare after it's been paid and commence court proceedings but I cannot recall a single case where it's actually happened.

How do train companies prove that you did use them? I would have thought that wouldn't be hugely difficult.

@Haywain has explain it above. In reality if you were going to challenge it I'd suggest taking proper legal advice.

Hi, so I'm keen to get the ball rolling on this, I'd rather be proactive than reactive. Would my email be admitting to not possessing the Railcard followed by an apology, what I've learned from the incident, that if possible could we settle the matter out of court and offer to pay any administrative costs.

Co-operating is the most pragmatic way of getting this resolved. Pop a draft of your proposed reply in this thread and we will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[WofE159rambler]

It may be worth mentioning that digital tickets contain 'Scan Logs' so the TOC would be able to tell if the tickets in the OP's account have been used, be that to enter or exit a station or if the tickets has been scanned on board a train. Having used these logs before on board to double check some information the entries are quite comprehensive. Dates, times, entry exit points, trains scanned on (if more than one) device and user id's of the person scanning the tickets etc etc. Although it doesn't help the OP directly, knowing this information could help them make an informed decision on how to proceed.

 

[LolitaEx45]

Draft email. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

On the ** ******* i was unable to provide the required railcard for my journey. I was dishonest, I do not own a Job Centre Plus railcard, I've made a grave error, of which I am deeply sorry. I understand the importance of adhering to ticketing rules and regulations, fare evading is unacceptable, it costs Train Operators vast sums of money and is wholly unfair on honest fee paying customers.

In light of this, I want to assure you that this experience has been a huge wake up call. I'm committed to making sure this never happens again, in doing so I have purchased a railcard which I have attached a copy of.

I understand the seriousness of my actions, if there is a way I can settle this outside of court I would be eternally grateful. I offer to pay any fees and administrative costs that have incurred in dealing with this.

Kind regards,

Draft email. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

On the ** ******* i was unable to provide the required railcard for my journey. I was dishonest, I do not own a Job Centre Plus railcard, I've made a grave error, of which I am deeply sorry. I understand the importance of adhering to ticketing rules and regulations, fare evading is unacceptable, it costs Train Operators vast sums of money and is wholly unfair on honest fee paying customers.

In light of this, I want to assure you that this experience has been a huge wake up call. I'm committed to making sure this never happens again, in doing so I have purchased a railcard which I have attached a copy of.

I understand the seriousness of my actions, if there is a way I can settle this outside of court I would be eternally grateful. I offer to pay any fees and administrative costs that have incurred in dealing with this.

Kind regards,

Thoughts?

Draft email. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

On the ** ******* i was unable to provide the required railcard for my journey. I was dishonest, I do not own a Job Centre Plus railcard, I've made a grave error, of which I am deeply sorry. I understand the importance of adhering to ticketing rules and regulations, fare evading is unacceptable, it costs Train Operators vast sums of money and is wholly unfair on honest fee paying customers.

In light of this, I want to assure you that this experience has been a huge wake up call. I'm committed to making sure this never happens again, in doing so I have purchased a railcard which I have attached a copy of.

I understand the seriousness of my actions, if there is a way I can settle this outside of court I would be eternally grateful. I offer to pay any fees and administrative costs that have incurred in dealing with this.

Kind regards,


Thoughts?

Wanted to send this off earlier. I'm guessing this reads ok? @Titfield @Hadders @Brissle Girl @Haywain

 

[Brissle Girl]

Yes, it reads ok to me.

 

[LolitaEx45]

Yes, it reads ok to me.

Great, thank you

 

[furlong]

They present evidence to the court that you have been caught using one such ticket and have bought a number of others. They can then ask you a number of questions to establish why the tickets were purchased and whether you made the journeys in question. As you will not have any evidence to refute what those questions will suggest, I would suggest it will be easier than @Hadders is suggesting.

Indeed - basically by providing circumstantial evidence where any alternative explanation put forward would sound wildly implausible. (If it looks like a duck...)

It's often said on here that a rail company can cancel a Penalty Fare after it's been paid and commence court proceedings but I cannot recall a single case where it's actually happened.

And I think that's because the train companies know that any such proceedings would be open to challenge by a competent lawyer and potentially lead nowhere unless they can show that the Penalty Fare in question was issued under false pretences e.g. because the recipient provided materially false information and this was only discovered later.

Once you've imposed your punishment based on the information in the railway's possession at the time, that's considered final - the courts wouldn't look kindly on a train company trying to change its mind retrospectively and impose another one! But if someone lies, for example, about their origin station, and that is discovered afterwards, then nothing bars prosecution. (Further I'd argue this is not necessarily limited by the oft-cited first appeal deadline if the information comes into the railway's possession after that date.)

 

[LolitaEx45]

I've received an email back from WMT fraud team and they are happy to settle the matter outside of court. They sent me a table of the instances where they believe I have committed an offence. In 2 of those instances I know they are wrong because during that period I did in fact have a valid Network Railcard and I have all the paperwork to prove it. Should I go back to them querying their results for these specific journeys, or will this ruffle some feathers and backfire?

 

[Haywain]

In 2 of those instances I know they are wrong because during that period I did in fact have a valid Network Railcard and I have all the paperwork to prove it.

Were the tickets for those instances bought with a Network Railcard discount, and for journeys in the Network Railcard area?

 

[LolitaEx45]

Were the tickets for those instances bought with a Network Railcard discount, and for journeys in the Network Railcard area?

Yes

 

[Haywain]

Should I go back to them querying their results for these specific journeys, or will this ruffle some feathers and backfire?

As they were legitimate tickets, you could write back thanking them for the opportunity to settle the matter and that your agree with their assessment apart from those two cases. Enclose details of the Network Railcard and ask if they would consider revising the amount requested to take account of this, and that you will then be happy to pay as soon as possible.

 

[ElizraEli_]

Yes

hello, I have just received the exact same email this morning and I literally freaked out when I saw ’they are committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full of extent of the law’. I since then have purchased a new railway card and have sent a similar response to yours, hoping I can settle it out of court!

Just wondering if this has not been sorted/cleared?

Also how long after your first email did they back to you with a response?

Please let me know.

Thanks

 

[Puffing Devil]

hello, I have just received the exact same email this morning and I literally freaked out when I saw ’they are committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full of extent of the law’. I since then have purchased a new railway card and have sent a similar response to yours, hoping I can settle it out of court!

Just wondering if this has not been sorted/cleared?

Also how long after your first email did they back to you with a response?

Please let me know.

Thanks

Per the site rules, please start your own thread with details of your own case. You'll get help directly related to your circumstances.