Direct services between Hayes & Harlington and Kensington Olympia, as per RG maps?

[All Line Rover]

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/Maps.pdf

Many of the Routeing Guide maps with London Paddington on them - e.g. map BL - show a line between Hayes & Harlington and Kensington Olympia, without going via London Paddington.

Does anyone know what this route is for, and if passenger services operate on it? I can't see it mentioned anywhere, except on the Routeing Guide maps.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

There's definitely no service now, however, it may be still there from when XC ran to Brighton via Hayes & Harlington and Kensington Olympia. That was withdrawn in December 2008, but didn't call at Hayes & Harlington, just Reading-Kensington Olympia-East Croydon, then onto the BML.

 

[Greenback]

I would guess it's a relic from the days when some XC trains went via Olympia. They route was never officially closed, which led to a well known and little used rail replacement bus!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Matt beat me to it!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

There's definitely no service, however, it may be still there from when XC ran to Brighton via Hayes & Harlington and Kensington Olympia. That was withdrawn in December 2008, but didn't call at Hayes & Harlington, just Reading-Kensington Olympia-down (or Up!) the Brighton Main Line.

Towards Brighton is 'Down'.

Sometimes routes are left in the guide for 'future use'.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Towards Brighton is 'Down'.

I've edited the post since

 

[All Line Rover]

I would guess it's a relic from the days when some XC trains went via Olympia. They route was never officially closed, which led to a well known and little used rail replacement bus!

Does that bus still operate? So the route is still "in existence?"

 

[Greenback]

Does that bus still operate? So the route is still "in existence?"

Not sure, others will know a lot more about it than I do! There was a lot of publciity about a while back, mostly because permission for the withdrawal of passenger services was never given, yet no alternative arrangements were made. thuis led to the bus, purely to fulfil statutory obligations.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Not sure, others will know a lot more about it than I do! There was a lot of publciity about a while back, mostly because permission for the withdrawal of passenger services was never given, yet no alternative arrangements were made. thuis led to the bus, purely to fulfil statutory obligations.

I thought the ghost bus / ghost train only ever covered the Kensington Olympia-Wandsworth Rd stretch?

 

[MikeWh]

It appears on the Southern Network Map: http://www.southernrailway.com/images/network_map_full.jpg

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought the ghost bus / ghost train only ever covered the Kensington Olympia-Wandsworth Rd stretch?

There is still a bus between Ealing B'way and somewhere or other, maybe even Shepherds Bush? However there is a daily train each way on the southern stretch of the route between Kenny O and Wandsworth Rd. 1004 down, 1612 up. The latter services are no problem to run as they are necessary anyway as ECS for the SN WLL peak extra workings.

Here's a report from last month on the rail part of the service:

http://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/201...-trip-in-londons-parliamentary-train-service/

 

[bnm]

The 'ghost' bus should still be running to maintain a service in replacement for no passenger trains running over the section of line between Acton East Junction and Mitre Bridge Junction. No statutory closure to passenger services on this section of line has been enacted. If the bus isn't running then the DfT is breaking the law. Last I heard it was running Tuesdays only at 0945 from Ealing Broadway - Wandsworth Road and return.

Southern should have started a 'parliamentary' service to/from Ealing Broadway in May 2010, as per their Franchise Agreement Service Level Commitment but have been prevented from doing so by Network Rail. There are problems with using Southern Class 171 DMUs on the GWML. Should one fail then there would be problems recovering it due to incompatible couplers. 171s have Dellner couplings. There's nothing that runs in regular service on the GWML with the same. Another 171 would have to come off the Southern network to rescue a failed unit, which would cause serious delays.

How this knotty problem is solved, I know not!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It appears on the Southern Network Map: http://www.southernrailway.com/images/network_map_full.jpg

The train service to/from Wandsworth Road is shown on that map, but not the bus service to/from Ealing Broadway.

 

[Greenback]

I knew there would be a lot of people who knew more about the specific sections of line affected, and the current arrangements! I did have an idea that Ealing Broadway was involved somehow!

 

[RJ]

Southern should have started a 'parliamentary' service to/from Ealing Broadway in May 2010, as per their Franchise Agreement Service Level Commitment but have been prevented from doing so by Network Rail. There are problems with using Southern Class 171 DMUs on the GWML. Should one fail then there would be problems recovering it due to incompatible couplers. 171s have Dellner couplings. There's nothing that runs in regular service on the GWML with the same. Another 171 would have to come off the Southern network to rescue a failed unit, which would cause serious delays.

How this knotty problem is solved, I know not!

How veritable is your source? Class 360s are fitted with Dellner couplers.

 

[bnm]

How veritable is your source? Class 360s are fitted with Dellner couplers.

Source was a Network Rail employee who deals with leccy matters who's patch is that area.

Class 360s are EMUs. If a Class 171 were to fail between Acton East Junction and Mitre Bridge Junction an EMU won't be much help. No knitting on stretches of that section of line.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm also led to believe that Southern have been granted paths by Network Rail for the services to/from Ealing Broadway, although no start date has been confirmed. So maybe NR are happy with Southern's arrangements should a 171 fail. One assumes that the only possible answer is another 171 sent from Selhurst Depot.

2017 SSuX Clapham High Street - Ealing Broadway
2112 SSuX Ealing Broadway - Clapham High Street

Those timings would suggest that, being after the evening peak, Southern may well have spare 171s at Selhurst.

 

[thefab444]

How veritable is your source? Class 360s are fitted with Dellner couplers.

It's quite possible that the Dellner couplers on the Class 360s are at a different height to those on the Class 171s, thus making coupling impossible.

 

[WillPS]

It's quite possible that the Dellner couplers on the Class 360s are at a different height to those on the Class 171s, thus making coupling impossible.

In which case what would have been the point in converting/ordering Class 171s from/over Class 170s in the first place?

As an aside, does anyone know if there is still a ghost bus serving Watford West? Or has this service finally been discontinued? EDIT: seems it officially closed in 2002.

 

[bnm]

In which case what would have been the point in converting/ordering Class 171s from/over Class 170s in the first place?

They were built with Dellner couplers to allow for emergency coupling to Class 377s. When built I doubt it was envisaged that they might one day be potentially used into Ealing Broadway.

The whole saga following the withdrawal of XC services to Brighton has been one monumental cock-up after another by the DfT. Comes of having pen-pushers trying to run a railway.:roll:

 

[swt_passenger]

The whole saga following the withdrawal of XC services to Brighton has been one monumental cock-up after another by the DfT. Comes of having pen-pushers trying to run a railway.:roll:

You have to be impressed with the way the DfT have to all intents and purposes turned it into an ongoing problem for Southern though, rather than themselves...

It would have been good if SN had been able to just say get lost; but that's the advantage to DfT of writing it into the new franchise spec...

 

[GuyBarry]

The 'ghost' bus should still be running to maintain a service in replacement for no passenger trains running over the section of line between Acton East Junction and Mitre Bridge Junction. No statutory closure to passenger services on this section of line has been enacted. If the bus isn't running then the DfT is breaking the law. Last I heard it was running Tuesdays only at 0945 from Ealing Broadway - Wandsworth Road and return.

Here's a link to a Times article from January 2009 on the ghost bus. Extraordinary to think that it costs £500 a day - surely it would have been cheaper to close the line properly than to keep it running all this time?

EDIT: Seems as though the ghost bus is going to be replaced by an actual train:

http://www.rail.co/2011/07/04/dft-agrees-to-replace-ghost-bus-with-rail-service/

 

[bb21]

The Time link doesn't work.

 

[swt_passenger]

The Time link doesn't work.

It's a subscription service nowadays isn't it?

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

EDIT: Seems as though the ghost bus is going to be replaced by an actual train:

There's something seriously wrong with that article, it was Dec 2008 when the service was pulled, and some time in 2009 when London Travelwatch got involved and the replacement train was announced by DfT.

I reckon it has been accidentally republished by rail.co

 

[bb21]

It's a subscription service nowadays isn't it?

It is, however it's giving me a 404 error rather than indicating that a subscription is needed.