Direct services - for fun

[FlyingPotato]

That is one thing that puts me off too, but always resigned to the idea of just paying a for a Northern/Avanti ticket for the rest of the journey if that happens. I think the last time I did it was standing only on the TFW. In fact that experience put me off going to Wales. I used to visit Wales frequently but won't be doing until TFW sort out their capacity issues. The LNW ticket really needs to be valid on Northern services as well.

Now imagine this in a fantasy world

Two options:
Lnw splits at Crewe with a portion to Manchester and another to Liverpool

Or
Lnw to Crewe 1ph. Extends to Manchester 1p2h and Liverpool 1p2h.

Or yes have a combined lnw N ticket

 

[TheSmiths82]

Now imagine this in a fantasy world

Two options:
Lnw splits at Crewe with a portion to Manchester and another to Liverpool

Or
Lnw to Crewe 1ph. Extends to Manchester 1p2h and Liverpool 1p2h.

Or yes have a combined lnw N ticket

I might be wrong but doesn't LNW already go to Liverpool? I think the issue with Manchester is there is just no capacity on the Manchester spur of the WCML.

 

[FlyingPotato]

I might be wrong but doesn't LNW already go to Liverpool? I think the issue with Manchester is there is just no capacity on the Manchester spur of the WCML.

Lnw goes to Liverpool from Birmingham not London

And I personally have no idea about capacity levels apart from the bare minimum

 

[Sad Sprinter]

A service from Victoria to London Bridge via the Leigham Curve would be useful to provide a direct Balham to Dulwich/Peckham service. Which would probably be a busy corridor but involves some awkward changes. But outside of London, I've always felt there's a need to connect Birmingham more with various places. Bradford, Hull and Middlesborough come to mind, so I wonder if it would be a good idea to extend TPEX from Manchester Airport to Birmingham, or even Euston via Crewe. If not, I think a Cardiff to Middlesborough/Hull/Sunderland service via Cheltenham and Birmingham might be a good idea.

I've also been fascinated with direct London to Bradford services. I think the best routing would be via the WCML through Stockport, Stalybridge and Huddersfield.

 

[RailWonderer]

Alternatively wire it and give it direct London services.

If this happened a morning and evening peak service would work, like how Ascot - Aldershot to Waterloo gets a direct peak service as does Southminster to Liverpool St.

Wasn't clear which post you were following up to - I think you meant - St Pancras - Sheffield -> [new] Barnsley -> Leeds -> Glasgow?

Yes, could be done - if happy to reverse (usually a railforums no-no) at Leeds. The infrastructure can handle it - has taken steam and loco hauled excursions in last 10-15 years.

It's fun to look at https://timetableworld.com/ - the 1963 Eastern Region timetable shows the Saturdays only Leeds [City] to Bournemouth via Bradford [Exchange], Halifax, Brighouse, Huddersfield, Penistone, Sheffield [Victoria], Nottingham [Victoria] etc.

I think it had to be two services with coupling up at Huddersfield. 4 hours from Penistone to Oxford beats most services today as the connections are broken in New Street.

View attachment 145536

Strange calling patterns as well - the Leeds Bournemouth doesn't even call at Reading or Oxford and the Newcastle Poole calls all stations Brockenhurst to Bournemouth. Makes you wander what they were thinking when writing these timetables. Did it not come to their minds that longer distance services need fewer calls and shorter services more calls?

 

[Magdalia]

Strange calling patterns as well - the Leeds Bournemouth doesn't even call at Reading or Oxford and the Newcastle Poole calls all stations Brockenhurst to Bournemouth. Makes you wander what they were thinking when writing these timetables. Did it not come to their minds that longer distance services need fewer calls and shorter services more calls?

They were thinking about the passengers, many of them were going on holiday.

These trains avoided Reading but most stopped at Reading West. On summer Saturdays the Newcastle-Bournemouth also avoided Sheffield Victoria.

 

[JonathanH]

Guildford to Victoria via Redhill, on an electrified line. Calling at all stations to Redhill, then fast to East Croydon and finally Clapham Junction. This has come up before but I believe such a service would actually provide a faster trip from Dorking to London than any of the existing ones (which stop just about everywhere). Part of a 2tph Reigate to Victoria service, with the other terminating/originating at Reigate, as now.

Personally, I'd rather see

Victoria - Clapham Junction - East Croydon - Redhill - Tonbridge - Ashford International

Through stopping service to Guildford over the North Downs linked to a stopping service to Victoria at Redhill.

Reading - Wokingham - Blackwater - North Camp - Guildford - Dorking Deepdene - Reigate - Redhill - Gatwick Airport - Three Bridges - Haywards Heath - Burgess Hill - Brighton

The residual stopping service between Reading and Guildford could then be used to justify rebuilding to Cranleigh

 

[nw1]

Personally, I'd rather see

Victoria - Clapham Junction - East Croydon - Redhill - Tonbridge - Ashford International

Presumably for Eurostar connections, or for linking Croydon and Kent?

Through stopping service to Guildford over the North Downs linked to a stopping service to Victoria at Redhill.

Reading - Wokingham - Blackwater - North Camp - Guildford - Dorking Deepdene - Reigate - Redhill - Gatwick Airport - Three Bridges - Haywards Heath - Burgess Hill - Brighton

The residual stopping service between Reading and Guildford could then be used to justify rebuilding to Cranleigh

Ah Cranleigh. Thanks for reminding me of that little fantasy.

Reopen with hourly service, operated with a unit detached off one of the two Portsmouth Direct stoppers per hour (the Direct would be back to the normal 4tph pattern under this alternate scenario).

 

[FlyingPotato]

Reading - Wokingham - Blackwater - North Camp - Guildford - Dorking Deepdene - Reigate - Redhill - Gatwick Airport - Three Bridges - Haywards Heath - Burgess Hill - Brighton

This would be amazing I could see my partner without a single train change

 

[Rail Quest]

I've always wanted a direct Manchester to Derby service. Would be very useful for trainspotting and, tbf, I have heard of a few people who do need to travel between the two locations frequently so perhaps demand would be there. I'd want it to use the Dore curve to skip Sheffield to speed up the journey and prevent the train getting overcrowded with Sheffield passengers but hey ho

 

[JKF]

Bristol Temple Meads to London via Clifton Down, Henbury & Bristol Parkway. Give a few local stations a direct train to London once a day each way (*disclaimer: I may have a dog in this race).

Bristol TM to Stratford via crossrail because changing trains is a drag. Also via Parkway because going via Bath is a waste of time.

Leeds to London via Cross Gates.

Leeds to Whitby via Pickering…

 

[Bartsimho]

I've always wanted a direct Manchester to Derby service. Would be very useful for trainspotting and, tbf, I have heard of a few people who do need to travel between the two locations frequently so perhaps demand would be there. I'd want it to use the Dore curve to skip Sheffield to speed up the journey and prevent the train getting overcrowded with Sheffield passengers but hey ho

You'd never get that of course but an alternate idea which might have legs instead is Piccadilly-Stockport-Macclesfield-Stoke-Uttoxeter-Derby.

It has larger intermediate markets and they were already looking at service improvements for the Derby-Crewe service. This would improve the Stoke-Derby portion.
Could even have it be an odd route of Piccadilly-Stockport-Crewe-Stoke-Uttoxeter-Derby as it would stay on the eastern side of Crewe station so doesn't have to cross the WCML. Always run onto Platform 1 in both directions with capability for Platform 4 if scrambling due to delays is needed.

It would avoid Clay Cross to Derby as well which can have some capacity issues

 

[Howardh]

I can actually see that a through Brighton-WCML service could in theory be introduced once the southern part of HS2 opens (if it opens, the longer Sunak is in power the less likely that is ) routed via Kensington Olympia. Operated by some kind of IC-grade 3rd-rail / OHLE dual-voltage stock and making use of freed-up capacity on the WCML, it could run every hour calling at Gatwick, East Croydon, Clapham Junction, Kensington, Watford Junction and MKC, then alternating Birmingham and Manchester. This could serve quite a range of markets and could seriously perhaps be a good idea.

Yes, not just the south coast but a direct line to Gatwick from the north would be appreciated - as would a line Heathrow/Gatwick!

 

[AlastairFraser]

Oh, where to start!
1) Manchester to Carlisle via Clitheroe and the S + C, extension of the existing Clitheroe service. Build those proposed bays on the west side of Vic station and use them for this service among others. 1 train every 2 hours.

2) All shacks service Sheffield to Barton upon Humber via Brigg. Make all intermediate stops but Worksop, Retford, Gainsborough Central, Barnetby request only.
Run in the gaps of the existing EMR Barton service (1 every 2 hours again).

3) Extend 1tph of Chiltern's Aylesbury Vale Parkway service to Milton Keynes Central, stopping at Bletchley only until EWR opens and then Winslow as well.

4) Accelerate the partial reopening of the Portishead branch by buying some pallets, nailing them together and sticking the structure at the end of the current line near Portbury. Preferably seal every single transport secretary for the last decade inside.

5) Extend all of the New Mills Central stoppers to Buxton, stopping only at Chinley. Reversal needed at Buxton, but this shouldn't be a massive problem.
Potential minimalist station at King Sterndale for walkers.

 

[RobShipway]

I can actually see that a through Brighton-WCML service could in theory be introduced once the southern part of HS2 opens (if it opens, the longer Sunak is in power the less likely that is ) routed via Kensington Olympia. Operated by some kind of IC-grade 3rd-rail / OHLE dual-voltage stock and making use of freed-up capacity on the WCML, it could run every hour calling at Gatwick, East Croydon, Clapham Junction, Kensington, Watford Junction and MKC, then alternating Birmingham and Manchester. This could serve quite a range of markets and could seriously perhaps be a good idea.

It would be good to go back to the services that you had where trains went from Brighton - Edingburgh and then later in the day the services went to Manchester Piccadilly via Kensington Olympia.

 

[nw1]

It would be good to go back to the services that you had where trains went from Brighton - Edingburgh and then later in the day the services went to Manchester Piccadilly via Kensington Olympia.

True though I think a version routed via the WCML would be more valuable than the longer way round via Reading and Oxford, much as I have a nostalgic attachment to the old loco-hauled XC services on this route.

 

[RobShipway]

True though I think a version routed via the WCML would be more valuable than the longer way round via Reading and Oxford, much as I have a nostalgic attachment to the old loco-hauled XC services on this route.

The services where originally routed from Brighton via Kensington Olympia, if I recall as they went by what was then the Old Oak Common southside stabling yard to get to the Great Western mainline which is where the Hitachi Depot is now I believe?

Prior to that, they did go over the bridge of the GWML, to join the WCML at Willesden Junction.

 

[dk1]

Norwich to Leicester and Birmingham, a route that had 5 through services each way daily in the 1970s and 1980s.

Still had a couple per day until the EMT/XC split from Central Trains in 2007. Crew changes took place at Ely or Leicester.

 

[mangyiscute]

Bristol TM to Stratford via crossrail because changing trains is a drag. Also via Parkway because going via Bath is a waste of time.

Why stop in Stratford - we should use Crossrail to run intercity services across London - I'm imagining Bristol to Norwich, and also adapt Thameslink so you can have Brighton to Edinburgh going straight through London onto the ECML.

A more sensible suggestion would be the return of XC services north of Manchester heading up the WCML, preferably from Reading - especially since the connection at Wolverhampton has been broken southbound so journeys now take an hour longer than they used to (all just to give Stafford a direct service to Birmingham, which is has plenty of, and to Scotland, which could previously be achieved by a simple 10 min change at Crewe)

 

[YourMum666]

Peterborough/Cambridge to Sevenoaks and Orpington

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'd quite like to see Trans-Pennine services return to running through to the North Wales coast, though I wouldn't trust current TPE to run it reliably!

 

[RobShipway]

I'd quite like to see Trans-Pennine services return to running through to the North Wales coast, though I wouldn't trust current TPE to run it reliably!

Maybe, an open access operator could take on the class 175 units to operate such a service?

 

[Magdalia]

Peterborough/Cambridge to Sevenoaks and Orpington

Definitely not. It introduces a risk to disruption on the two track section at Welwyn for no reward, as the small amount of demand for these journeys is already met by changing trains in the Thameslink core.

What I would do is run the existing peak hour Welwyn Garden City-Sevenoaks service all through the day.

 

[Howardh]

Bolton to Liverpool used to be direct, now you have to change at Kirkby; like to see that re-instated except it takes me nowhere near where I want to go - Liverpool airport (Liverpool South parkway)!

 

[DJ_K666]

Was possible until 15 or so years ago with routing usually via Reading/Guildford/Redhill (reversal required) or Reading/Kensington Olympia/Clapham Junction, so doubt a tunnel would really be required.

When I travelled on it it was 0920 to Edinburgh from Brighton - Clapham Jn - Kenny O - Reading - Oxford - Banbury - Leamington up that way (I'm guessing via Cov and Brum)

The Manchester at 1420 went via Redhill.
Of course I used it when  proper trains operated it, before those horrible Voyagers appeared.

Dover Priory to Bristol TM.

Via Tonbridge, Redhill (reverse) Guildford, Reading, Didcot, Swindon and into Bristol.

Fulfilling the London-avoiding intent of the South Eastern Railway when they extended themselves into Great Western territory. Of course back then a change at Reading would have been necessary using the old Reading (Southern) station, which was like a separate exclave beside the Great Western station, before it was demolished and platforms with Third Rail were provided in the main station.

Reading Southern

 

[A S Leib]

• Hemel Hempstead – Crewe
• St. Albans City – Leicester (and preferably Nottingham, Sheffield or both)
• Newcastle – Holyhead (following the current TPE route to Newton-le-Willows then to Chester)
• Liverpool Lime Street – Wrexham (Low Level – Central and an hourly High Level – General – Shrewsbury)
• Swansea and Hereford – Bristol Temple Meads
• Stratford-upon-Avon – Oxford
• Derby – Grimsby Town
• Allens West / Dinsdale – Newcastle
• Lincoln Central – York

 

[greyman42]

Leeds to London via Cross Gates.

I think there is already a service that is routed that way.

 

[dk1]

I think there is already a service that is routed that way.

Are you sure?

 

[mangyiscute]

Are you sure?

The Skipton to London train on Saturdays is routed to go that way and join the ECML near Selby, but it runs non-stop Leeds to Doncaster meaning the only practical difference to passengers is no Wakefield stop - I guess the poster meant a service that stops at Cross Gates and other stations along that line.

Realtime Trains | 1A13 0656 Skipton to London Kings Cross | 04/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 1A13 0656 departure from Skipton to London Kings Cross on 04/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[dk1]

The Skipton to London train on Saturdays is routed to go that way and join the ECML near Selby, but it runs non-stop Leeds to Doncaster meaning the only practical difference to passengers is no Wakefield stop - I guess the poster meant a service that stops at Cross Gates and other stations along that line.

Realtime Trains | 1A13 0656 Skipton to London Kings Cross | 04/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 1A13 0656 departure from Skipton to London Kings Cross on 04/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Ahh thanks for that. Thought that had stopped years ago when the 17:50 (?) off Kings Cross stopped using that route on weekdays. I remember GNERs ‘horseshoe’ plans where trains went clockwise & anti-clockwise between Doncaster & Leeds via both routes negating the need to change ends at Leeds itself and building the new parkway station on the Garforth route.