Discussion of July 4 changes in England announced by Boris Johnson

[OliverH68]

So basically it's a two tier system when it comes to travelling. Those that have cars can go wherever they like,which I agree with. But the poorest in society who do not have a car are being told to avoid public transport. What an absolute farce.

Or for those with disabilities that prevents us from driving at all, like myself as I rely on public transport to get me everywhere. The lack of updated guidance is not welcome as the general message still seems to be essential travel only.

Should really be updated in line with all these non-essential places now opening up, surely there is room for leisure travel again?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I imagine that the Government don’t want ‘you can go to the pub!’ and ‘you can use public transport freely!’ to coincide on the same scorching July day.

I expect the changed messaging on public transport use will come a week or two later, ready for the school holidays and after any timetable changes have had a week or two to bed in.

It might also spread people out better if people stick to their local pub (or another one within walking or cycling distance, the latter obviously only if you're not consuming to excess) rather than taking the bus or train to busier town centre pubs of their choice.

 

[Huntergreed]

Or for those with disabilities that prevents us from driving at all, like myself as I rely on public transport to get me everywhere. The lack of updated guidance is not welcome as the general message still seems to be essential travel.

Should really be updated in line with all these non-essential places now opening up, surely there is room for leisure travel again?

Leisure travel is permitted by law. We don’t need the law to change, we simply need the messaging of “essential only” (which isn’t true) to stop coming from TOC’s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Leisure travel is permitted by law. We don’t need the law to change, we simply need the messaging of “essential only” (which isn’t true) to stop coming from TOC’s.

The law clearly doesn't prohibit leisure travel by public transport. However the guidance does ask us to avoid it if possible, and it is very clear that it is always possible to avoid going to the pub (unless you happen to work in one).

I think that guidance will need to change to make it clear that what is meant is "if another mode is viable use that", so car owners, me included, should not presently go for a jolly by train as the car is an option instead. But those who don't own cars should be able to use trains for the journeys I can go by car, and my using the car instead is keeping space for you.

 

[duncanp]

I wonder how many Welshmen will suddenly discover an urgent need to visit Shrewsbury on 4th July.

 

[westv]

The law clearly doesn't prohibit leisure travel by public transport. However the guidance does ask us to avoid it if possible, and it is very clear that it is always possible to avoid going to the pub (unless you happen to work in one).

The advice to avoid if possible refers to the means of transport, not the destination.

 

[scotrail158713]

I wonder how many Welshmen will suddenly discover an urgent need to visit Shrewsbury on 4th July.

I imagine it’ll be similar to the number of Scots finding a similar need to visit Carlisle/Berwick

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder how many Welshmen will suddenly discover an urgent need to visit Shrewsbury on 4th July.

Or Chester. I hope the locals have not been engaging in their legally mandated Archery practice

 

[Bletchleyite]

The advice to avoid if possible refers to the means of transport, not the destination.

Yes, but to me "avoid using public transport if possible" extends (or at least can be interpreted to extend) to avoiding non-essential journeys if they are only possible that way. And Northern and the Unions certainly agree.

It is possible to avoid going to the pub; unless you work in one there is no circumstance under which it is necessary. Ergo, if you can't walk, cycle or drive there, the present advice suggests you should not go. I would agree that advice should change, but in my view that is how it presently stands. For instance, I think driving to London for a day-trip is too awkward, and it's too far to cycle or walk, so I should instead take a day trip to another location where driving there is viable, or walk to my local town centre instead.

If I needed to go to London for a specific reason that couldn't be carried out another way (perhaps I've purchased something rare that must be collected, say), then public transport would be fair game.

 

[High Dyke]

So it's safe to go to the pub yet not use a bus to get to that pub?

That's no use in this area... no bus service after 18:00. Good job I live within a mile of the town centre.

 

[Fisherman80]

Leisure travel is permitted by law. We don’t need the law to change, we simply need the messaging of “essential only” (which isn’t true) to stop coming from TOC’s.

You wouldn't think leisure travel was allowed according to Northern Rails Twitter feed

 

[High Dyke]

I would imagine the hospitality sector were tipped off at least a week ago about today's announcement so I suspect they'll already have had enough time to prepare.

Perhaps the only issue for pubs will be a beer shortage as many brewers stopped brewing during the lockdown as they would have had limited outlets to sell to.

Some brewers have already restarted production. however, the industry as a whole did say it would at least three weeks to be able to be ready to open.

 

[duncanp]

The other point that needs to be made is that if air bridges are allowed from 4th July, as rumoured, then people in Wales and Scotland will be able to travel outside of the UK and to England for a holiday, to eat and drink and stay in a hotel. Anywhere in fact except, er, Wales and Scotland.

I cannot imagine that the business community in Wales and Scotland will be all that happy about this situation, as all that money flowing across the border could be spent at home, thereby boosting the economies of Wales and Scotland.

 

[Skymonster]

The other point that needs to be made is that if air bridges are allowed from 4th July, as rumoured, then people in Wales and Scotland will be able to travel outside of the UK and to England for a holiday, to eat and drink and stay in a hotel. Anywhere in fact except, er, Wales and Scotland.

Most Scots and Welsh won’t be able to get to the airport unless the five miles rule is lifted.

 

[Skymonster]

It is possible to avoid going to the pub; unless you work in one there is no circumstance under which it is necessary. Ergo, if you can't walk, cycle or drive there, the present advice suggests you should not go.

Firstly there is no point in singling out pubs - it is possible to avoid going to parks, zoos, city centres, the seaside, cinemas. Are these too out of bounds for the proletariat that don’t have cars? If that was the case, we really are moving towards a two-tier society. Fortunately its not because...

Secondly the rules are not linked. The first is that we can now go where we wish, and in 11 days we will be able to stay away too. PERIOD. End of rule. Next rule is that when we travel (wherever we decide to go, see previous rule), we should avoid public transport where possible. PERIOD again. End of rule - no mention that those who have to use public transport means have certain locations / facilities that are out of bounds.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

You wouldn't think leisure travel was allowed according to Northern Rails Twitter feed

Let's see how quickly Northern's message changes when the government funding tap is turned off and they have to generate their own revenue!

 

[cactustwirly]

It's less than 20% of people in households without a car. Most of whom could still get go the pub by walking or a taxi. How many people who aren't rail enthusiasts ever use a train to get to the pub? This is being way overstated. People have designated drivers in their groups, or use taxis to get home almost all of the time.

Lots of people, saves the stress of a designated driver, everyone can drink. Not always the pub, can also be a trendy cocktail bar in town etc

 

[Ian Cunningham]

Most Scots and Welsh won’t be able to get to the airport unless the five miles rule is lifted.

Again the nonsense about there being a 5 mile "rule" in Scotland emerges. There is a recommendation from ScotGov that you should stay local to home for exercise and leisure with a advisory guideline of 5 miles, there is no distance limit for visiting family

 

[Huntergreed]

Again the nonsense about the 5 mile "rule" in Scotland emerges. There is a recommendation from ScotGov that you should stay local to home for exercise and leisure with a advisory guideline of 5 miles, there is no distance limit for visiting family

Whilst it isn't law, it's hardly nonsense. The FM makes regular reference to it when discussing the lockdown, and she did threaten to make it a law only a few weeks ago, so it's clear that they view it as important rather than just 'nonsense'.

The rule is due to be lifted with the next easing of lockdown, currently pencilled in for 15th July when tourism reopens (however she did drop hints today that she may be able to move this forward).

 

[Mintona]

Let's see how quickly Northern's message changes when the government funding tap is turned off and they have to generate their own revenue!

As the government were running the Northern franchise before the Covid restrictions, I don’t think that is hugely likely.

 

[nedchester]

Or Chester. I hope the locals have not been engaging in their legally mandated Archery practice

Only within the City walls!!

 

[LowLevel]

I have no problem with the use of public transport regarding travel to pubs etc providing those who don't behave (and they will exist) are given the absolute maximum penalties allowed by the law for any offences they commit.

Vomiting on the railway's premises, starting a fight with some bloke because he looked at your missus or falling down the stairs and bleeding everywhere because you're too drunk to stand up all need to be met with particularly harsh penalties, and examples of people made, because the risk factor involved for the people who have to clear up afterwards is far higher.

If someone pukes in the doorway of my train I wont be stepping over it like I normally do on a Saturday night, I'll just get off the train until it isn't there any more.

If you can't cope with the above stay local.

 

[Ian Cunningham]

Whilst it isn't law, it's hardly nonsense. The FM makes regular reference to it when discussing the lockdown, and she did threaten to make it a law only a few weeks ago, so it's clear that they view it as important rather than just 'nonsense'.

The rule is due to be lifted with the next easing of lockdown, currently pencilled in for 15th July when tourism reopens (however she did drop hints today that she may be able to move this forward).

I've edited my first post as the language was a bit unclear- my appologies for that. The point I was trying to make is that people keep repeating that there is a hard 5-mile limit on travel when there isn't one - it is merely advisory guidance from ScotGov. My understanding is that it was introduced mainly to stop places like Loch Lomond getting swamped with visitors - I suspect the threat to make it law was was just us getting telt to calm doon and behave.

 

[yorkie]

The advice to avoid if possible refers to the means of transport, not the destination.

Absolutely.

You wouldn't think leisure travel was allowed according to Northern Rails Twitter feed

Northern are either incompetent or are deliberately misleading people; the Government guidelines are very clear and do not in any way state what Northern claim they say. Many people have challenged them on Twitter and they've taken a huge amount of stick.

I'd stick to the official Government guidelines. It's not for Northern to dictate to anyone what they should or shouldn't do. I doubt Northern will persist with their misinformation campaign for much longer anyway and almost certainly not beyond 4th July.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Glad to hear that hotels are allowed to re-open from July 4th. As I have two weeks off from work at the start of August, I plan to book a stay on the Norfolk coast for the first week of August (which will be the first time I've ventured outside of Central Bedfordshire since all this began the middle of March :P ) as soon as bookings are possible. Here's hoping there isn't a sudden upsurge in the spread of the virus in the mean time.

 

[Butts]

Most Scots and Welsh won’t be able to get to the airport unless the five miles rule is lifted.

Absolute nonsense, there is nothing to stop you going anywhere.

I'm going to Edinburgh Airport tomorrow to get a car from Avis and I will then be driving down to Birmingham. I might even to try and "run the border" into Wales while I'm down there.

3 Countries in One day !!!

 

[Class 33]

Whilst it's very good news that the 2 metre rule will be reduced to 1 metre, was slightly disappointed to hear Boris say "But stay 2 metres away if possible.". This will confuse some, as a number of people will still stick to aiming to be at least 2 metres away from anyone, including passing people in the street. Aiming to be 2 metres away from passing people in the street can be potentially dangerous. Today I witnessed some guy have a near miss with being hit by a car, as he was walking along the pavement just in front of me and then another guy suddenly came round the corner from the adjacent street walking towards him, and then he instantly walked out into the road without checking for traffic and directly into the path of a car heading in the same direction. The driver of the car had to jam his brakes on to avoid hitting him. That guy had a narrow miss there. Whilst this guy should have checked for oncoming traffic before suddenly walking into the road, this is one of the problems of this 2 metre social distancing rule now that the roads have become a lot more busier now. So I would have preferred Boris not to also mention "But stay 2 metres away if possible.". Me personally, come 4th July I will not be sticking to 2 metre social distancing anymore, I will stick to 1 metre. No longer when I pass people in the street, will I be moving about 2 metres away from them, I will move to only about 1 metre from them.

I was also disappointed that Boris said "Avoid public transport if possible.". This is in contradiction to the holiday and leisure industry starting up again on 4th July! It's discrimination really to those of us who don't have our own transport. No encouragement really for us to get out and about and use trains, buses, and coaches for leisure purposes! I had suspected and mentioned on here the other day, that I thought this would happen! And sadly the likes of train operators such as Northern Rail will still keep up with their "Our trains are for key workers and essential workers ONLY" and "Please don't use our trains to go shopping or for day trips!". Hopefully the messaging on this issue will change before 4th July.

It was also mentioned that schools will be returning with full capacity attendance from September and with no social distancing. So does this mean that social distancing by then will only be scrapped whilst in schools, or will social distancing be scrapped everywhere in England? Hopefully it will be the latter, but I'm not so sure. I will be glad when we finally see the back of this social distancing nonsense altogether.

Whilst a lot of businesses have now already re-opened and more will be opening again on 4th July, there are still a number of venues that will still have to remain closed and it's uncertain when they'll be allowed to re-open. Such as indoor gyms/yoga studios, swimming pools, spas, beauty salons, nail bars, and theatres. Hopefully they'll all be able to open by August or September at the latest, otherwise a lot of these venues are in danger of closing down. Seen on the news this morning that about 70% of theatres are in danger of having to close for good if they can't re-open soon! And if they can re-open, well even with 1 metre social distancing rules, it just won't be financially viable for them to be open as they rely on having audiences of at least around 70% to remain financially viable!

 

[PeterC]

That's no use in this area... no bus service after 18:00. Good job I live within a mile of the town centre.

18:00! - they call that a "night bus" around here

 

[route101]

Leisure travel is permitted by law. We don’t need the law to change, we simply need the messaging of “essential only” (which isn’t true) to stop coming from TOC’s.

Think some of messaging jas changed , dundee buses and first .

 

[Chester1]

Will the 4th of July also be the first day of air bridges between the UK and other European countries? Or is this happening earlier?

The formal review date is on Monday but an announcement is expected this weekend. I very much doubt that the government will implement travel advice or quarantine rules changes prior to 4th July to avoid giving foreign destinations an advantage. If the announcement is this Saturday or Sunday its not practical to set a date earlier than 4th July. Its probably only going to be a handful of countries on 4th July, followed by most of Europe by end of month.