Disruption between Carlisle and Lockerbie - Attempted robbery of Mail train (01/08/2023)

[Napier]

I don't suppose you'll find dye packs in someones birthday card.

Not sure what they thought they may find on board, that they could esily identify as valuable.

They'd of been better off lurking in a services waiting for a decent looking curtain sider carrying gear.

 

[zwk500]

Not sure what they thought they may find on board, that they could esily identify as valuable.

They'd of been better off lurking in a services waiting for a decent looking curtain sider carrying gear.

Plenty of that going on, but of course competition between rival gangs exists and is somewhat fiercer and less regulated than the legal market. I guess some bright spark had a few too many in the pub one night and decided to see what they could do. The anniversary of the original (UK) Great Train Robbery, the regular schedule of Mail on the WCML, and potentially the TV series a couple of years ago may all have helped as well, of course.

 

[noddingdonkey]

There was also a control log that made the rounds after the diesel train derailed in Wales. However I'm astonished to hear of password sharing with outside parties.

I'm amazed that there isn't some form of two factor authentication preventing such password sharing.

Has the earlier report of smoke issuing from the back of the train been discounted as an error?

 

[Bald Rick]

Hopefully, the teenagers in question will get some rehabilitation

There is a suggestion that the pair in question had recently enjoyed some rehabilitation at His Majesty’s pleasure, which seems not to have been effective.

 

[Watershed]

I'm amazed that there isn't some form of two factor authentication preventing such password sharing.

Has the earlier report of smoke issuing from the back of the train been discounted as an error?

It may well have been the result of the suspects vaping or smoking, or trying to set packages alight. Any number of plausible explanations for it.

 

[dk1]

There is a suggestion that the pair in question had recently enjoyed some rehabilitation at His Majesty’s pleasure, which seems not to have been effective.

Straight back to the big house then.

 

[Facing Back]

Not sure what they thought they may find on board, that they could esily identify as valuable.

They'd of been better off lurking in a services waiting for a decent looking curtain sider carrying gear.

A suggestion from a friend in law enforcement was that mail theft is often focus on getting credit cards and personal details for identity theft - and that there is a significant market for these. Things like utility bills have value, and even if cards need to be activated they also have value.

Judging by the competence of the culprits I'm still thinking they were looking for trainers.

 

[infobleep]

There is a suggestion that the pair in question had recently enjoyed some rehabilitation at His Majesty’s pleasure, which seems not to have been effective.

This then begs the question did they get any meaningful rehabilitation there. If they did then that's different to if they didn't.

 

[14xxDave]

Once a scroat......

 

[RobertsN]

Unfortunately it's not that pathetic, as the BBC News app normally contains punctuation, spelling, bad english and grammer errors on what seems a daily basis. And when those errors are being noticed by someone who failed their English O Level at school it really says how low the standards have fallen (and the lack of proof reading before publishing articles).

<Pedantic>
Grammar
</Pedantic>

 

[38Cto15E]

Back in the 70's I was working 4M50 The Tartan Arrow, Glasgow Bridgeton-Kentish Town. When I got back to leicester depot the clerk asked me if I had seen anything at a field crossing near to Narborough (Leics) as the Police had been in touch about a potential train robbery, this would have been around 03-30hrs.
Fortunately train drivers are now better equipped technically than they were 60 years ago.

 

[Steve Harris]

<Pedantic>
Grammar
</Pedantic>

And that's the point I'm making ! I'm not perfect, but the website/app is worse than me. Very poor for such an organisation frankly.

 

[mpthomson]

Indeed it is a discussion forum after all

Companies never discuss any security information if it isn't already public source, as security for mail trains wouldn't be, for what should be blatantly obvious reasons. You (and me and everyone else bar a very few on this forum) don't need to know what those security measures are. If we did need to know, then we'd know.

 

[dk1]

Judging by the competence of the culprits I'm still thinking they were looking for trainers.

Unbelievable as that sounds you probably aren’t far from the truth sadly.

 

[Steve Harris]

This then begs the question did they get any meaningful rehabilitation there. If they did then that's different to if they didn't.

Rehabilitation??

After all the cuts the government have carried out criminals are locked up pretty much 24hrs a day 7 days a week (this has been widely reported in the media over the last year or so). Unless a english/maths/trade/rehab teacher is locked up with them I can't see how rehabilitation can be/has been carried out, and the cycle of course repeating itself when they are released.

 

[TurbineEnginee]

Can’t resist what appears to be some irony in the Police report.

“police believe nothing was stolen” but also that the culprits were “charged with..theft”

 

[takno]

Can’t resist what appears to be some irony in the Police report.

“police believe nothing was stolen” but also that the culprits were “charged with..theft”

Thought they nicked a light bulb

 

[Trainguy34]

Thought they nicked a light bulb

Probably needs to go in their head from what I've heard!

 

[ainsworth74]

Scroats will always scroat - whatever "rehabilitation" largesse is bestowed upon said scrotes (financed by the long-suffering taxpayer).
The world would be a much better place without the oxygen-wasting likes of "Scroaty McScroatface" and his intellectually-challenged associates/partners in crime.

Indeed, we should shoot anyone who commits any crime. It's the only sensible reaction to criminal behaviour as once a criminal always a criminal! Maybe we should start with motoring offences? Caught speeding, summary execution. After all people are killed by motoring offences far more than they are by theft.

 

[TJM]

Indeed, we should shoot anyone who commits any crime. It's the only sensible reaction to criminal behaviour as once a criminal always a criminal! Maybe we should start with motoring offences? Caught speeding, summary execution. After all people are killed by motoring offences far more than they are by theft.

£100 penalty fares? Far too mild, just arm the RPIs instead!

 

[infobleep]

£100 penalty fares? Far too mild, just arm the RPIs instead!

That isn't a crime through. Still, let's not let that get in the way.

Rehabilitation??

After all the cuts the government have carried out criminals are locked up pretty much 24hrs a day 7 days a week (this has been widely reported in the media over the last year or so). Unless a english/maths/trade/rehab teacher is locked up with them I can't see how rehabilitation can be/has been carried out, and the cycle of course repeating itself when they are released.

I guess this allows governments to be tough on crime as they can say we have locked more criminals up than a previous government.

If only more was done to rehabilitate though.

 

[randyrippley]

Hang 'em off the front of the cabs as figureheads
Might as well punish them properly

 

[TJM]

Hang 'em off the front of the cabs as figureheads
Might as well punish them properly

No doubt the softie mods and network rail will oppose proper punishments these days!

 

[Bluejays]

While the end result was pretty calamitous, there still must have been a fair bit of planning involved. It's a bit more than an impulsive smash and grab so I'd hope it attracts a hefty punishment. Must be scary as hell if you're working that train, to suddenly have 2 idiots in there acting aggressively

 

[dakta]

I don't think you need to be too picky when raiding for parecels, you don't need to know where the iphones are - whilst they'd be a lucky win almost everything has some value to flog on.

All for rehabilitation but also all for cutting the losses if/when it's proven to be ineffective, at some point protecting the public most take increasing priority

 

[Fleetmaster]

The risk reward calculations probably haven't changed much, comparing the time and effort of robbing a train compared to a van in the street. The original robbers of course having only got such long sentences because the driver was assualted, which wasn't part of the original plan. We are all too quick to assume our young people these days are not just as bright and enterprising as previous generations. Getting caught may have simply been a matter of luck, or greed, or both.

 

[takno]

The risk reward calculations probably haven't changed much, comparing the time and effort of robbing a train compared to a van in the street. The original robbers of course having only got such long sentences because the driver was assualted, which wasn't part of the original plan. We are all too quick to assume our young people these days are not just as bright and enterprising as previous generations. Getting caught may have simply been a matter of luck, or greed, or both.

Pointing out the spectacular stupidity of the recent attempt doesn't take away at all from the callous stupidity of the 1960s robbers. I don't doubt for a second that today's youth are generally cleverer and more enterprising, but perhaps more impulsive. The original train robbery fell apart because it was complex and involved in too many people seeing nothing or staying quiet. This robbery fell apart because ithe potential reward was not worth any level of risk at all.

 

[Peter0124]

I would rather criminals were rehabilitated in prison than in a constant cycle of reoffending.

 

[SamYeager]

I would rather criminals were rehabilitated in prison than in a constant cycle of reoffending.

I'm sure that we would all prefer that but it's not as easy as waving a wand plus it also requires resources that are in scarce supply however this is going offtopic.

 

[TomG]

Control (regardless of whether you mean Network Rail Control or TOC Control) cannot instruct a train driver to pass a signal to at danger. The only person* who can authorise a driver to pass a signal at danger is the signaller. The only roles who are allowed to give the signaller’s instructions to pass a signal at danger indirectly to a driver are a pilot, a handsignaller or a shunter.


*except in one very specific circumstance when a train driver can use their own authority to pass a signal at danger, which is not relevant to the mail robbery incident

Signaller was who I was thinking of!