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Disused stations

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DavidGrain

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Jack Barry

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Interesting. This completely contradicts everything I have read in the past about these deep level tunnels.

The telephone exchange at Chancery Lane is usually quoted in reference to secret government cold war underground telephone exchanges together with Birmingham ANChor and Manchester GUArdian and the suspicion that there was also one in Glasgow.
Goodge Street connects to the deep level tunnels as well, I think I am right in that the only other one that does is Chancery Lane.
 

Mutant Lemming

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What about the extended siding that runs beyond Charing Cross disused Jubilee platforms ? I only once ever took a train down there and it seemed a fair distance - almost to Aldwych where the Fleet line would have interchanged with the Picc branch. Am sure it opened up a bit where the platforms for the station would have been though nothing resembling a station was there. I believe 'tours' either on foot or by train where never authorised because there is no emergency access.
 

DavidGrain

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What about the extended siding that runs beyond Charing Cross disused Jubilee platforms ? I only once ever took a train down there and it seemed a fair distance - almost to Aldwych where the Fleet line would have interchanged with the Picc branch. Am sure it opened up a bit where the platforms for the station would have been though nothing resembling a station was there. I believe 'tours' either on foot or by train where never authorised because there is no emergency access.

Looking at the measurements on my old Quail Map track diagrams, I worked out that the disused section of the Jubilee Line must have run under the Strand almost to Aldwych. Hidden London Tours include going onto the Jubilee Line platforms at Charing Cross.
 

bramling

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Looking at the measurements on my old Quail Map track diagrams, I worked out that the disused section of the Jubilee Line must have run under the Strand almost to Aldwych. Hidden London Tours include going onto the Jubilee Line platforms at Charing Cross.

The Jubilee overrun tunnels end roughly level with Lancaster Place, so indeed just short of Aldwych station.

There’s no provision for any station there, but there is a fan shaft at Southampton Street, clearly designed to be part of a running tunnel with bell mouths oriented in what would have been the respective directions of travel.

Interestingly the next fan shaft to the east was also built, between Aldwych and Ludgate Hill. It remains to this day along with some evidence on the surface. There’s a LIDAR inspection survey video clip somewhere on the internet.

The siding berths end at fixed red lamps, however the track continues some way further to the very end.

Recently the sidings have been used as a test bed for various designs of LED tunnel lights. None of them particularly good I might add!
 

Journeyman

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What about the extended siding that runs beyond Charing Cross disused Jubilee platforms ? I only once ever took a train down there and it seemed a fair distance - almost to Aldwych where the Fleet line would have interchanged with the Picc branch. Am sure it opened up a bit where the platforms for the station would have been though nothing resembling a station was there. I believe 'tours' either on foot or by train where never authorised because there is no emergency access.

I've walked right to the end of that tunnel - I was a manager at Charing Cross for a while. There's nothing that resembles a station tunnel in it. It just finishes up at a dead end. There's a fairly large vent shaft in there, though.
 

Mutant Lemming

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I've walked right to the end of that tunnel - I was a manager at Charing Cross for a while. There's nothing that resembles a station tunnel in it. It just finishes up at a dead end. There's a fairly large vent shaft in there, though.

I didn't think it was station size just seemed to be a bit bigger than standard tube tunnel - though the mists of time may have blurred it a little.
Across on the Bakerloo, is there still a 'pond' at the landing where the first vertical ladder ends from the hole in the wall halfway along Elephant & Castle South Siding ?
 

Jack Barry

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The Jubilee overrun tunnels end roughly level with Lancaster Place, so indeed just short of Aldwych station.

There’s no provision for any station there, but there is a fan shaft at Southampton Street, clearly designed to be part of a running tunnel with bell mouths oriented in what would have been the respective directions of travel.

Interestingly the next fan shaft to the east was also built, between Aldwych and Ludgate Hill. It remains to this day along with some evidence on the surface. There’s a LIDAR inspection survey video clip somewhere on the internet.

The siding berths end at fixed red lamps, however the track continues some way further to the very end.

Recently the sidings have been used as a test bed for various designs of LED tunnel lights. None of them particularly good I might add!
Do you have a name of the street?
 

Jack Barry

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I didn't think it was station size just seemed to be a bit bigger than standard tube tunnel - though the mists of time may have blurred it a little.
Across on the Bakerloo, is there still a 'pond' at the landing where the first vertical ladder ends from the hole in the wall halfway along Elephant & Castle South Siding ?
Is that the shaft that comes up next to the shopping centre?
 

bramling

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Do you have a name of the street?

If you mean the Aldwych-Ludgate Circus fan shaft IIRC it’s Bouverie Street, although it’s actually more in Temple Lane as I recall. Quite easy to spot on the surface. Looking at the LIDAR survey it doesn’t look likely visits are possible - in fact it looks mildly flooded at tunnel level.
 

Jack Barry

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If you mean the Aldwych-Ludgate Circus fan shaft IIRC it’s Bouverie Street, although it’s actually more in Temple Lane as I recall. Quite easy to spot on the surface. Looking at the LIDAR survey it doesn’t look likely visits are possible - in fact it looks mildly flooded at tunnel level.
Thanks for that I did not realise that it had been built I knew they dug some tunnel but that was at New Cross.
 

Ex LT

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If you mean the Aldwych-Ludgate Circus fan shaft IIRC it’s Bouverie Street, although it’s actually more in Temple Lane as I recall. Quite easy to spot on the surface. Looking at the LIDAR survey it doesn’t look likely visits are possible - in fact it looks mildly flooded at tunnel level.
The shaft was to be a fan shaft when completed but you are right the entrance is in Temple Lane.
 

Mutant Lemming

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Is that the shaft that comes up next to the shopping centre?

yes there was a second vertical ladder by the "pond" that came out via a manhole (or should that be person hole) on the access road down to the Elephant and castle shopping centre service area.
 

Jack Barry

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If you mean the Aldwych-Ludgate Circus fan shaft IIRC it’s Bouverie Street, although it’s actually more in Temple Lane as I recall. Quite easy to spot on the surface. Looking at the LIDAR survey it doesn’t look likely visits are possible - in fact it looks mildly flooded at tunnel level.
I have looked on Google street view but nothing jumps out, although I will make a site visit when I can but that won't be for a while. Any chance of a bit more in the meantime.
 

bramling

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I have looked on Google street view but nothing jumps out, although I will make a site visit when I can but that won't be for a while. Any chance of a bit more in the meantime.

I can’t remember precisely where it is and I’m not at home to look it up! Have a look at the north end of Temple Lane on google. The tower is visible if looking in the right place. It’s incorporated into a very 1970s looking office block.
 

Jack Barry

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I can’t remember precisely where it is and I’m not at home to look it up! Have a look at the north end of Temple Lane on google. The tower is visible if looking in the right place. It’s incorporated into a very 1970s looking office block.
Thanks I looked on Google stret view and that is what I saw but thanks to Ex LT for the view and you can clearly see the shaft which is incorparated with the building. Looking at the street view there appears to be a door marked as fire exit wither that is the entrance or through the building I don;t know.
 

Ex LT

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Thanks I looked on Google stret view and that is what I saw but thanks to Ex LT for the view and you can clearly see the shaft which is incorparated with the building. Looking at the street view there appears to be a door marked as fire exit wither that is the entrance or through the building I don;t know.
Google street view is very handy and once you have found something from the aerial view you can then check it out on the street view, have a good look and see what else you can find.
 

Bald Rick

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If you mean the Aldwych-Ludgate Circus fan shaft IIRC it’s Bouverie Street, although it’s actually more in Temple Lane as I recall. Quite easy to spot on the surface. Looking at the LIDAR survey it doesn’t look likely visits are possible - in fact it looks mildly flooded at tunnel level.

Well fancy that! I used to live just off Bouverie St, and never had any idea.
 

bramling

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Well fancy that! I used to live just off Bouverie St, and never had any idea.

To be fair, the Fleet Line is one of my fascinations, and I didn't know about it until relatively recently either. It's one of those things which isn't well documented, although I have some official plans.

There is a clip on the internet somewhere which appears to be a LIDAR inspection survey. How this came to be in the public domain I'm not really sure, but what is seen on it matches up with the civils plans I have.
 

Jack Barry

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To be fair, the Fleet Line is one of my fascinations, and I didn't know about it until relatively recently either. It's one of those things which isn't well documented, although I have some official plans.

There is a clip on the internet somewhere which appears to be a LIDAR inspection survey. How this came to be in the public domain I'm not really sure, but what is seen on it matches up with the civils plans I have.
I know that the National Archives have route plans for most lines but I don't think they show shafts.
 

Jack Barry

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There was a plan by a company and I think TfL also to make use of disused stations, does anyone know what is happening if anything.
 
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bramling

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There was a paln by a company and I think TfL also to make use of disused stations, does anyone know what is happening if anything.

All gone rather quiet, no doubt because doing anything with the below-ground parts of the disused stations is extremely difficult, whilst many of the above-ground parts have already been redeveloped where easily convenient, or at least gainful use made of the surface buildings.

We've already seen some redevelopments in recent years - City Road and Hyde Park Corner spring to mind.

The deep shelters offer more of an opportunity, although of course in many cases they have historically been used for other purposes over the years.

Many disused stations retain operational purpose in the form of tunnel access/egress points and ventilation shafts. The first use *may* in some cases be able to be sacrificed (although who would want to be the one signing that off as not representing an increase in risk / reduction in operational convenience - especially as few sections of LU meet as-new standards for things like egress and intervention?), however tunnel cooling is if anything an increasingly salient issue, to the point where a number of vent shafts have been brought back into use in recent years or expensively uprated, so abandoning vent shafts is unlikely to be an acceptable option. Re-routing through a redeveloped surface structure is viable, as seen at many locations over the years, but driving replacement shafts to tunnel level so that someone can put a café in an old lift-shaft is unlikely to be cost-effective!

In any case, LU/TFL's current flavour of the month is redeveloping station car parks - I'd say watch out for some pretty big and vulgar schemes over coming years if the current pressure on housing in London continues. Again, this isn't necessarily a new thing - Rickmansworth and Wembley Park both readily spring to mind as having had developments in what used to be quite large car parks, and there's certainly a few large ones in what might be considered prime locations - Stanmore, East Finchley, Woodside Park, Cockfosters, Hounslow West, Epping spring to mind. Then there's the prospect of roofing over some locations - London Road Depot has been rumoured for this. Of course there's the risk that no sooner has the land been redeveloped then an operational use emerges, train stabling being something which needs space for example.
 
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Jack Barry

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All gone rather quiet, no doubt because doing anything with the below-ground parts of the disused stations is extremely difficult, whilst many of the above-ground parts have already been redeveloped where easily convenient, or at least gainful use made of the surface buildings.

We've already seen some redevelopments in recent years - City Road and Hyde Park Corner spring to mind.

The deep shelters offer more of an opportunity, although of course in many cases they have historically been used for other purposes over the years.

Many disused stations retain operational purpose in the form of tunnel access/egress points and ventilation shafts. The first use *may* in some cases be able to be sacrificed (although who would want to be the one signing that off as not representing a reduction in risk / operational convenience?), however tunnel cooling is if anything an increasingly salient issue, to the point where a number of vent shafts have been brought back into use in recent years or expensively uprated, so abandoning vent shafts is unlikely to be an acceptable option. Re-routing through a redeveloped surface structure is viable, as seen at many locations over the years, but driving replacement shafts to tunnel level so that someone can put a café in an old lift-shaft is unlikely to be cost-effective!

In any case, LU/TFL's current flavour of the month is redeveloping station car parks - I'd say watch out for some pretty big and vulgar schemes over coming years if the current pressure on housing in London continues. Again, this isn't necessarily a new thing - Rickmansworth and Wembley Park both readily spring to mind as having had developments in what used to be quite large car parks, and there's certainly a few large ones in what might be considered prime locations - Stanmore, East Finchley, Woodside Park, Cockfosters, Hounslow West, Epping spring to mind. Then there's the prospect of roofing over some locations - London Road Depot has been rumoured for this. Of course there's the risk that no sooner has the land been redeveloped then an operational use emerges, train stabling being something which needs space for example.
I remember Hyde Park Corner many years ago street level was a Pizza place, I agree those that have operational purposes won't be turned into anything although there was a company can't remember the name but they had big plans and I think TfL knocked it on the head and the latest is they are being taken to court because they stole the same idea that this company had!!
The deep shelters seem to be a mixture of uses but as they don't use for any escape from the tube network then growing mushrooms and the like is okay.
 

Dstock7080

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I remember Hyde Park Corner many years ago street level was a Pizza place, I agree those that have operational purposes won't be turned into anything although there was a company can't remember the name but they had big plans and I think TfL knocked it on the head and the latest is they are being taken to court because they stole the same idea that this company had!!
The deep shelters seem to be a mixture of uses but as they don't use for any escape from the tube network then growing mushrooms and the like is okay.
The Old London Underground Company:
http://www.theoldlondonundergroundcompany.com/
 

Mojo

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I remember Hyde Park Corner many years ago street level was a Pizza place, I agree those that have operational purposes won't be turned into anything although there was a company can't remember the name but they had big plans and I think TfL knocked it on the head and the latest is they are being taken to court because they stole the same idea that this company had!!
After the pizza restaurant at Hyde Park Corner closed down the site was heavily modified/refurbished and opened as a ultra-luxury hotel called "The Wellesley" in December 2012. Parts of the station that are below street level still exist and are retained for operational use.

Despite the proposals I find it hard to imagine what non-railway purposes the below ground sections of disused stations would be actually be useful for at the present moment in time.
 

Mikey C

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It perhaps seemed surprising that the former Marlborough Road station went the other way. It used to be a Chinese restaurant, but since 2009 has instead (according to Wikipedia) contained an electricity substation.
 

Jack Barry

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After the pizza restaurant at Hyde Park Corner closed down the site was heavily modified/refurbished and opened as a ultra-luxury hotel called "The Wellesley" in December 2012. Parts of the station that are below street level still exist and are retained for operational use.

Despite the proposals I find it hard to imagine what non-railway purposes the below ground sections of disused stations would be actually be useful for at the present moment in time.
I did not know about the chage at Hyde park Corner but was in the area yesterday and it looks very different must have a look at some other sites.
 
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